1. #8101
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolsteak View Post
    Saying the nost players are "raging about how Blizzard took their toy away" in a post edit isn't talking about the issue, It's generalizing a whole lot of people
    You mean like the Nost players generalizing all those paying retail customers, or those that disagree with them, as Blizzard fanboys?

  2. #8102
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzza View Post
    What we are trying to do is find a way to change Blizzard's mind and allowing a legacy server(s) to exist or to allow (with rules and regulations), certain private servers to continue to develop and grow to allow their (Blizzard's) fans to enjoy the game they created long ago.
    Then you need to convince Blizzard that you are all willing to pay AND in big enough numbers. This is the only way.

    Repeatedly slapping Nostalriu's free-account numbers that are in no way comparable to paying subs and pointing "we have this many people!" is not going to do the trick.
    When we looked at the relics of the precursors, we saw the height civilization can attain.
    When we looked at their ruins, we marked the danger of that height.
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  3. #8103
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I hope Blizzard still love redemption stories.
    Controlling who is allowed to provide access to their copyrighted content is going to rate higher with Blizzard's lawyers than redemption stories. That's really the entire point.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  4. #8104
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    What does that even mean? Blizzard having a Vanilla server is not a redemption story. Good lord.
    I was speaking to Moana here.

    Some things are worth preserving.

  5. #8105
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binki View Post
    No, he wants to apply arbitrary metric to numbers that is not applied to official numbers.
    It's not arbitrary. All the numbers I used were brought to the table by the pro-vanilla crowd. Not my fault they want to use faulty reasoning to state that each and every account in that game translates to an unique player, when it's easy to disprove that claim.

    Numbers he's after don't exist. And he knows it. Its cop out to "prove" his point that vanilla servers aren't wanted.
    And yet the pro-vanilla crowd keep acting as if those numbers do exist when they claim that '# of active accounts = # of active players'.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  6. #8106
    The Patient Kelz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    And some of us would rather not see Blizzard devote even 1 minute of time/resources to trying to do such a thing. We want EVERYONE at Blizz working on Legion and beyond. We really don't need Legion work + following expansion and then diverting X people to maintain legacy servers.
    Subjective. Some would love to see the development of full functioning, sanctioned legacy servers and some would not. I do not doubt for one second that a lot of players have zero interest in them, but you have to admit yourself that there are players who would.

  7. #8107
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I'll walk you through it:

    a) Pro-'classic server' crowd claims there is a high demand for classic servers, and use Nostalrius' published numbers are evidence;
    b) I point out the numbers indicate a low retention rate, 18.75%;
    c) Pro-'classic server' crowd then claims 150k active players is a great achievement for a free server;
    d) Among other things, I also point out that 150k active accounts does not automatically translate into 150k active players, which would bring the retention rate of players even lower.

    Basically, it's just to show them that boasting Nostalrius' last published numbers won't be doing them any favors, and claiming that they indicate a clear interest for 'classic servers', when you have a low retention rate of just 18.75% (that's when assume each account = one player).
    Selectively posted anti-"classic server" crowd points instead of looking at things objectively, with bunch of made up points that don't reflect reality. As expected.

  8. #8108
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    So you are going to the classic, shiny example of "Blame the Players! Never Blizzard!"?
    Now that's a new and riveting stance I've seen in MMO-C.
    What did Blizzard do wrong? Defend their product against piracy? GASP!!! BASTARDS!!! How DARE they stop people from using their work without permission.

    I'm not saying that Blizzard hasn't made some bad decisions. If you bother to look over my post history you'd see that. But the simple fact of the matter is that no one ever bothered to ask Blizzard to use their source code. They just took it and used it without permission, made money off of it and then acted injured when Blizzard shut them down.

    We know that Blizzard's stance is that THEY won't do Legacy servers, but what if people had offered to pay Blizzard for the code to make their own?
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  9. #8109
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Controlling who is allowed to provide access to their copyrighted content is going to rate higher with Blizzard's lawyers than redemption stories. That's really the entire point.
    I know you didn't miss the point.

    Blizzard will see reason.

    Eventually.

    Otherwise we are done with them forever.

  10. #8110
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoidie View Post
    You mean like the Nost players generalizing all those paying retail customers, or those that disagree with them, as Blizzard fanboys?
    And? Tell that to the Mod, Not me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Potboza View Post
    I created a black human male called "Pedopriest" and ran him to SW.
    I started asking where the schools were.
    Someone said "My kids play on this server you creep! How can you live with yourself?"
    I whispered back, "How old are they?"
    Yeah.

  11. #8111
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Binki View Post
    Those are great numbers considering that:
    - Lack of advertising. Vast majority of players didn't know about Nost.
    - Questionable legality, which scares some players. Also after hearing about all keylogging/hacking on official servers many people don't trust anything unofficial.
    - There was a 20-40 page advertising thread on this very same forum page every month for at least past 6 months. There was plenty of advertising going on
    - It's funny how you use "questionable legality" instead of the correct term: "illegal".

    And then if you consider the fact that is was completely free to play - that retention number is pretty fucking horrible.
    Last edited by mmocb3d24e6671; 2016-04-09 at 08:12 PM.

  12. #8112
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binki View Post
    Of course 150k active accounts <> 150k active players. There could be people with multiple accounts, people sharing accounts. It is impossible to know number of players and its irrelevant. What is relevant is number of subscribers. Number of active accounts == number of subscribers.
    I agree with most of your post, but not with what you say in the end. Number of active accounts does not translate into number of subscribers. Because subscribers are humans. A single person can hold two subscriptions, but it's still just one subscriber.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  13. #8113
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I did. I live in the land of dreams instead.

    There's a world outside of Blizzard. We can find what we want elsewhere and you can't stop us.

    Life isn't fair, right? This philosophy of yours applies to you as well when the majority are awakened.
    actually blizzard can stop you. When the majority are awakened to what, how shitty vanilla was? Good luck with that, I have played since the WSG patch, and if they bring vanilla servers back I will never touch them, and if they try to make me pay more for my subscription to cover the cost of vanillas I'll stop subbing to wow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  14. #8114
    I said it in another thread, but I'd love to hear how the individuals of World of Warcraft private servers feel. Do they approve as long as the servers make no money off of running and simply make beloved content available to their fans?

  15. #8115
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's not arbitrary. All the numbers I used were brought to the table by the pro-vanilla crowd. Not my fault they want to use faulty reasoning to state that each and every account in that game translates to an unique player, when it's easy to disprove that claim.

    And yet the pro-vanilla crowd keep acting as if those numbers do exist when they claim that '# of active accounts = # of active players'.
    Why are those numbers faulty? Since when did number of players ever mattered? In every release by Blizzard or other companies they stated number of subscribers.

    There is no such thing as number of players. There never was.

    Your whole "show me player numbers" crusade is nothing but trolling.

  16. #8116
    Bloodsail Admiral Mullet Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I agree with most of your post, but not with what you say in the end. Number of active accounts does not translate into number of subscribers. Because subscribers are humans. A single person can hold two subscriptions, but it's still just one subscriber.
    strawman is strawman

  17. #8117
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    This thread only exists because Blizzard is involved with the issue and people want to talk about it. There will be multiple points-of-view and as long as people stay within the site rules that's fine.
    I think the big reason many advocates even bother posting is on the off chance we'll get to learn ANY of this info:

    1.) How can we prove that we want this?
    2.) On top of this, how can we prove we will pay for this feature?
    3.) What would be the estimated cost of creating and running these servers officially?
    4.) What would a theoretical pricing model look like?
    5.) How many estimated subscribers would it take to offset that cost?
    6.) Would a certain level of interest have to be met regionally, or internationally?
    7.) If done by region, would it have to be unanimous? (i.e. US/EU get Legacy if China has low interest)
    8.) Would there be a server in every region? (Assuming OCE would use it's own datacenter theoretically, just asking to be safe)
    9.) Is this just never going to happen while WoW is still receiving expansions and major content updates?

    No one on the outside can answer these accurately, and any answer from either side is speculation. That said, it's info that we feel would be useful to the discussion (as well as other info from Nost staff, but that's a different list entirely), even if it's just a "no" answer to #9.

  18. #8118
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binki View Post
    So what? It is WoW we are talking about. Your post doesn't make any sense.
    Read the post I replied two. He was the one to mention other MMOs.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  19. #8119
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I know you didn't miss the point.

    Blizzard will see reason.

    Eventually.

    Otherwise we are done with them forever.
    Tbh I think the Nostalgia-types are the ones who can't see reason. It's expensive to maintain, support and bug-fix the server. Do you really think they'll get enough money to support the game? What patch should they do? Why not also make a BC and Wotlk server? Hell, Cata and MoP too! I can't see anyway they make enough money to warrant doing this when they can just use that same time and effort to make an expansion pack for Hearthstone and make 100x or more probably. I just can't see it ever happening since it's so much effort for such a small gain.

  20. #8120
    I am Murloc! Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I agree with most of your post, but not with what you say in the end. Number of active accounts does not translate into number of subscribers. Because subscribers are humans. A single person can hold two subscriptions, but it's still just one subscriber.
    I think his point is mainly "potentially money generator".

    If Blizzard start their own Vanilla server, that person can potentially hold 2 sub as well.

    But that is a really big IF on Blizzard making Vanilla server and would the person get 2 sub if he suddenly has to pay for them.

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