People against socialized medicine but fast to spread Gofundme links for sick friends

[Deleted]

Then they die, or get even more sick... all on their own doing.

So now we have more deaths, simply because YOU want to risk killing yourself by self-diagnosis.

You know you need to have a license to drive a JCB excavation unit right? Why is that? Why can't I just drive it with my normal driving license?

[GennGreymane]

If you restrict the supply, costs will continue to be high.

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What do you think it is?

Doctors deal with lives, not cars. DO I need to go back to how you compared medicine to making cars? Quality is needed in medicine.

[Machismo]

You mean like in the past? When people sold arsenic, mercury or whatever else they wanted as cures. You want to go back to that?

You are completely and totally clueless, have no idea what you are talking about, and are severely immature to boot.

I know something about drug chemistry, and the reason organizations like the FDA exist is because drugs can have all sorts of effects on the human body and its impossible to know what they are without painstaking work. Even then the mountains of data need to be thoroughly analyzed and its still possible to get it wrong. Ever heard of Lipitor? Go on look it up. Your stupidity if ever implemented would see hundreds of thousands of deaths.

But hey that worth the price of mu freedom right?

If it were up to me, you would have the option of both. You could pay mroe, and get the care you currently have, or you could pay less, and possibly get lower quality care.

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So when someone gets rear ended by a tractor trailer, is that on them too?

No, that would be on the asshole who hit them.

[Deleted]

What do you think it is?

Well, what I described for you could be several things.

It could be an allergic reaction.
Scarlet Fever.
Acute Anthrax Poisoning.
Subdermal Skin cancer.

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No, that would be on the asshole who hit them.

So I guess in your world the courts are free now?

[Machismo]

So now we have more deaths, simply because YOU want to risk killing yourself by self-diagnosis.

You know you need to have a license to drive a JCB excavation unit right? Why is that? Why can't I just drive it with my normal driving license?

Once again, if you don't like it, you would be free to start your own voluntary single payer system, where you could pay as much as you wanted for the premiere doctors.

[GennGreymane]

Once again, if you don't like it, you would be free to start your own voluntary single payer system, where you could pay as much as you wanted for the premiere doctors.

Ah so you keep dodging and hiding behind a joke.

[Machismo]

Doctors deal with lives, not cars. DO I need to go back to how you compared medicine to making cars? Quality is needed in medicine.

But is it actual quality? Americans pay a shit ton for health care, and the quality is often questionable. We also have a greta many obstacles that limit the competition.

And yes, when it comes to cars, quality also matters.

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Ah so you keep dodging and hiding behind a joke.

It was not a joke at all. You think that by having the freedom to do one thing, you cannot also choose to do the other. If you don't like one form, you can always opt for the other.

[GennGreymane]

But is it actual quality? Americans paya shit ton for health care, and the quality is often questionable. We also have a greta many obstacles that limit the competition.

And yes, when it comes to cars, quality also matters.

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It was not a joke ata ll. You think that by having the freedom to do one thing, you cannot also choose to do the other. If you don't like one form, you can always opt for the other.

You keep saying freedom as if you actually know what you are talking about.

Yes you are right, thats why cars are also a heavily regulated industry. However competition does not work in medicine in the same sense as the auto industry.


Ever wonder why the quality is questionable? Ever wonder why medical quality is better in other countries?

[Alydael]

People want something for free? How is this post worthy?

[alexw]

But with forced single payer, participation is mandatory. That's why people oppose it. I understand that is exactly how insurance also works, but people enter into it freely (until the ACA).

No that is not what you said. You stated that the healthy have to assume a burden they would not otherwise have to assume and as such it restricts freedom. They assume that burden under ANY type of healthcare system. So what you were saying is that healthcare systems restrict freedom. Don't go trying to pretend you did not say that when you did.

[Deleted]

Once again, if you don't like it, you would be free to start your own voluntary single payer system, where you could pay as much as you wanted for the premiere doctors.

Actually I have the NHS, where I can walk into AE right now if I am drastically ill, get served on the spot and then leave hospital knowing my house won't be repossessed or I need to pay off debts in the thousands due to things outside my control.

[Machismo]

You keep saying freedom as if you actually know what you are talking about.

Yes you are right, thats why cars are also a heavily regulated industry. However competition does not work in medicine in the same sense as the auto industry.


Ever wonder why the quality is questionable? Ever wonder why medical quality is better in other countries?

I'm pretty sure I have a good grasp on what freedom is.

Cars are not so heavily regulated as to limit the competition within the marketplace. The competition is what pushes the quality up. And I think it's pretty damn clear that the quality of automobiles has gone way up in the past 40 years.

Some countries do have better quality medical care, others do not. In America, the quality is low because there's very little competition. There's also a ridiculous amount of regulations that do nothing but slow down the processes. Drugs in other countries get approved much faster than in the United States. We also have laws stating you cannot purchase drugs overseas, which means we have to pay the price they demand.

[Deleted]

No that is not what you said. You stated that the healthy have to assume a burden they would not otherwise have to assume and as such it restricts freedom. They assume that burden under ANY type of healthcare system. So what you were saying is that healthcare systems restrict freedom. Don't go trying to pretend you did not say that when you did.

Only someone as backward as a republican would confuse a service for a burden. I don't see republicans building their own roads.

[Machismo]

No that is not what you said. You stated that the healthy have to assume a burden they would not otherwise have to assume and as such it restricts freedom. They assume that burden under ANY type of healthcare system. So what you were saying is that healthcare systems restrict freedom. Don't go trying to pretend you did not say that when you did.

When a healthy person voluntarily purchases health insurance, they do so even though they are likley to lose money in the long run. However, they have made that choice voiluntarily. The exact same thing can be said for single payer, but it's not voluntary. One is a restirction of freedom, the other is an example of someone exercising it.

[GennGreymane]

I'm pretty sure I have a good grasp on what freedom is.

Cars are not so heavily regulated as to limit the competition within the marketplace. The competition is what pushes the quality up. And I think it's pretty damn clear that the quality of automobiles has gone way up in the past 40 years.

Some countries do have better quality medical care, others do not. In America, the quality is low because there's very little competition. There's also a ridiculous amount of regulations that do nothing but slow down the processes. Drugs in other countries get approved much faster than in the United States. We also have laws stating you cannot purchase drugs overseas, which means we have to pay the price they demand.

Automobiles have plenty of regulations, from safety standards, to assurance they wont explode, to factory regulations. I have a feeling you tried to buy drugs from Somalia. The model for medicine people ask for in the US is to mimic successful models in Europe and Canada.

[Machismo]

Actually I have the NHS, where I can walk into AE right now if I am drastically ill, get served on the spot and then leave hospital knowing my house won't be repossessed or I need to pay off debts in the thousands due to things outside my control.

Good for you. And your health care is likely paid by someone who is healthy, and/or makes much more money than you do.

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Only someone as backward as a republican would confuse a service for a burden. I don't see republicans building their own roads.

You assume I'm a Republican, but Republicans are the major reason we are in such a shitty state.

[Deleted]

When a healthy person voluntarily purchases health insurance, they do so even though they are likley to lose money in the long run. However, they have made that choice voiluntarily. The exact same thing can be said for single payer, but it's not voluntary. One is a restirction of freedom, the other is an example of someone exercising it.

But it's not a freedom at all, because in America you NEED to pay anyway. You NEED to pay to visit the doctor, you NEED to pay for perscriptions. You're basically arguing that a fake choice is better than understand the world.

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Good for you. And your health care is likely paid by someone who is healthy, and/or makes much more money than you do.

Yeah, let's take my medical bills, divide it by the entire fucking population of the British Isles, and I guess we'll see how much I owe them. Oh wait, they have those options too, and I am fine with paying them for it.

So we're equal and happy.

[Machismo]

Automobiles have plenty of regulations, from safety standards, to assurance they wont explode, to factory regulations. I have a feeling you tried to buy drugs from Somalia. The model for medicine people ask for in the US is to mimic successful models in Europe and Canada.

They are successful models, but they are also restrictions of freedom. Like I said many pages ago, Americans tend to have a problem with people taking away their freedoms.

I think single payer is a valid system, but it does involve the restrition of people's freedoms, so I do not support it. I think voluntary single payer sounds like an excellent idea.

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But it's not a freedom at all, because in America you NEED to pay anyway. You NEED to pay to visit the doctor, you NEED to pay for perscriptions. You're basically arguing that a fake choice is better than understand the world.

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Yeah, let's take my medical bills, divide it by the entire fucking population of the British Isles, and I guess we'll see how much I owe them. Oh wait, they have those options too, and I am fine with paying them for it.

So we're equal and happy.

But the ACA is also a restriction of freedom. If you held a gun to my head, and told me to pick between the abortion that is the ACA, and single payer, I would pick single payer in a heartbeat. Of course, I would much rather you not hold a gun to my head.

[alexw]

If it were up to me, you would have the option of both. You could pay mroe, and get the care you currently have, or you could pay less, and possibly get lower quality care.

No this isn't about care. You said you wanted to get rid of the FDA. I explained why that was a stupid idea and would result in hundreds of thousands of deaths. Just like all your other stupid ideas that would see even more hundreds of thousands dying.

[Machismo]

But it's not a freedom at all, because in America you NEED to pay anyway. You NEED to pay to visit the doctor, you NEED to pay for perscriptions. You're basically arguing that a fake choice is better than understand the world.

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Yeah, let's take my medical bills, divide it by the entire fucking population of the British Isles, and I guess we'll see how much I owe them. Oh wait, they have those options too, and I am fine with paying them for it.

So we're equal and happy.

Of course you're happy, someone else is likely paying for your health care.

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No this isn't about care. You said you wanted to get rid of the FDA. I explained why that was a stupid idea and would result in hundreds of thousands of deaths. Just like all your other stupid ideas that would see even more hundreds of thousands dying.

The FDA is a pain-in-the ass bureaucracy that is controlled by the powerful health care companies. If you like it, good for you. I'll pass.