Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[corebit]

The community was exactly like the community was back in 04-06 in retail vanilla. I didn't notice any major differences except that in general players were better overall at playing the game, but thats to be expected. People say it over and over again that the game doesn't create the community, they're wrong, a game can easily foster a better community and its been shown over and over exactly what changed in wow that caused a good community to turn into a toxic one, blizzard just doesn't feel it can take away things at this point to fix their mistake. I think they're wrong here, I believe that they could and the no flying thing proves it. It might piss off a small number of people but most will play on and enjoy it as life slowly returns to the game. Will they do this? no probably not.

Exactly the same as vanilla 04-06? You mean hybrid classes are still told to heal or GTFO in dungeons and raids? Because that was my experience as a ret paladin in vanilla, which is ironic since per the vanilla advocates, it was all about living the fantasy and the immersion.

[Pwellzor]

They did already, though. That server was up for over a year and was constantly expanding. They are on record saying that they each had to put in 20-40 hours individually to manage it, on top of their full-time jobs. The reason they continued to do it was simply because they are passionate about it.

Now, eventually they would tire out or look to cease their effort. But hopefully by then a legacy server would have already been established and everyone can cool their jets.

The company I work for (software dev/maintenance) wouldn't let me work somewhere else full time. The quality of my work would be reduced due to burn out. A company as prestigious as blizzard would likely have the same policy. I also might be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure you have to live near blizzard hq to work on this section of the company. Its damn near impossible to live there without a very well paying job and not live in poverty.

[Mullet Man]

Hey Guys,

It's been a fun day. Thanks for all the bumps and in fighting.

I know many of us don't see eye to eye.
Many of my comments were a little (a lot) snarky.

Overall I love WoW and would like to have an official vanilla experience again.
I suspect Blizzard is listening, but I honestly doubt we will see anything before Legion.
Godspeed to those that love retail wow. Enjoy it while you can.

Again, no hard will towards anyone. There is real person behind each and every avatar and username on this forum.
Glad we could have this discussion on MMO-C.

[Pwellzor]

Hey Guys,

It's been a fun day. Thanks for all the bumps and in fighting.

I know many of us don't see eye to eye.
Many of my comments were a little (a lot) snarky.

Overall I love WoW and would like to have an official vanilla experience again.
I suspect Blizzard is listening, but I honestly doubt we will see anything before Legion.
Godspeed to those that love retail wow. Enjoy it while can.

Again, no hard will towards anyone. There is real person behind each and every avatar and username on this forum.
Glad we could have this discussion on MMO-C.

Does your vision get worse at night?

[frogger237]

And I'm sure you're right. There are plenty of engineers who know the intricacies of Blizzard's servers and how to manage and support those servers successfully for over a year with limited resources and volunteer labor hours. I'm also sure those same engineers would be willing to work on them for free.

Oh wait, they wouldn't.

How much skill do you really need to run a game you have stolen? I helped my brother run a Helbreath server when we were kids and we knew(and still know) jack shit about anything related to computers, all I had to do was change a few numbers around and stuff and I could do what ever I needed to. Granted I assume WoW is a little more complex but I doubt you have to be a top tier engineer to deal with it.

[Kelz]

Nost didn't work on blizz(like) servers. Wrong again.

Maybe not entirely, but.. as a final note before I retire for the night, a little quote from the Nostalrius team. Maybe you will stop thinking they are rotten, evil-doing sinners and think of them as passionate fans.

We trained several entire teams: development, software validation, customers service (also named Game Masters), communication...We used our personal experience in project/team management to fine-tune the organization, and make important decisions. We dealt with cheaters, abusers, gold sellers, and others...always devoted to helping people in your game.

We never saw our community as a threat for Blizzard. It sounds more like a transverse place where players can continue to enjoy old World of Warcraft's games no longer available, maybe until a new expansion appears; a huge and powerful community of fans that remains attached to future Blizzard games, as we have in no other gaming company.

We don’t have the pretention to come up with a complete solution regarding legacy servers that you and your company didn't already think about, but we'd be glad and honored to share it with you if you're interested, still on a volunteer basis.

They aren't vile scum. You are being narrow minded. Goodnight folks. Until tomorrow.

-Kelz

[Pwellzor]

Maybe not entirely, but.. as a final note before I retire for the night, a little quote from the Nostalrius team. Maybe you will stop thinking they are rotten, evil-doing sinners and think of them as passionate fans.



They aren't vile scum. You are being narrow minded. Goodnight folks. Until tomorrow.

-Kelz

Dont think either of us called them vile scum. :/ You're better than this.

[Kelz]

How much skill do you really need to run a game you have stolen? I helped my brother run a Helbreath server when we were kids and we knew(and still know) jack shit about anything related to computers, all I had to do was change a few numbers around and stuff and I could do what ever I needed to. Granted I assume WoW is a little more complex but I doubt you have to be a top tier engineer to deal with it.

Understatement. Being stolen doesn't make it easier. Check my previous post. GN!

[zorkuus]

Maybe not entirely, but.. as a final note before I retire for the night, a little quote from the Nostalrius team. Maybe you will stop thinking they are rotten, evil-doing sinners and think of them as passionate fans.



They aren't vile scum. You are being narrow minded. Goodnight folks. Until tomorrow.

-Kelz

Hold on the strawman a little there. I haven't went that far... yet.

Maybe not entirely

Not at all.

[corebit]

They aren't vile scum. You are being narrow minded. Goodnight folks. Until tomorrow.

I don't think anyone who is participating in this discussion reasonably is accusing of them of being vile. They being passionate fans does not entitle them to bone-headed and illegal decisions.

Blizzard is very good when it comes to hiring people who are passionate fans. Ion Hazzikostas aka Watcher is a perfect example. He went from passionate fan and theorycrafter to lead game designer. Plenty of Blizzard's team were once WoW hardcore players.

But intentions are one thing, and the actions you do based on those intentions are another thing entirely. As they say, the road to hell is always paved with good intentions.

[feellucky]

Exactly the same as vanilla 04-06? You mean hybrid classes are still told to heal or GTFO in dungeons and raids? Because that was my experience as a ret paladin in vanilla, which is ironic since per the vanilla advocates, it was all about living the fantasy and the immersion.

Nice cherry picking but yes, its not about "you" its about the group. But also this idea is exaggerated, there were guilds recruiting boomkins, enh shamans, feral druids, shadow priests etc.. and on nost and back in vanilla I raided with all the hybrid specs. Not sure about rets and prot pallies since I never raided on ally side. Did quite a bit with hybrid tanks on horde side though, even enhancement shaman tanks, no they didn't main tank raids but properly speced they could off tank or tank dungeons. Hunters tanked nef back in vanilla, there were actually more possibilities surprisingly even if the specs were not exactly equally balanced, it wasn't all that bad unless you wanted to main tank all the time as something other than a warrior. The major problem in many cases wasn't that the spec was terrible its just that their wasn't many options for gear for hybrid specs since the tier sets were designed for primary roles. I you want more hybrid love try TBC or pvp in vanilla were many hybrids shined.

[Camthur]

I bet Blizzard gets a kick outta this drama. Here you have all these people going off the deep end all over the net. This thread is approaching 500 pages pretty soon with people just tearing into each other. The other day was a day of chaos, sadness, and drama for thousands of people. To Blizzard, it was Thursday.

They don't care how many threads people make or how many petitions full of fake names people make. They clearly do things in their own way and in their own time and couldn't care less what fans with causes have to say. Whatever grand crusade is the cause of the day for whoever is pissed off at that given moment is just some side event that Blizzard has no problem ignoring.

[Pwellzor]

fans with causes

You should make t-shirts.

[pmizz]

I bet Blizzard gets a kick outta this drama. Here you have all these people going off the deep end all over then net. This thread is approaching 500 pages pretty soon with people just tearing into each other. The other day was a day of chaos, sadness, and drama for thousands of people. To Blizzard, it was Thursday.

They don't care how many threads people make or how many petitions full of fake names people make. They clearly do things in their own way and in their own time and couldn't care less what fans with causes have to say. Whatever grand crusade is the cause of the day for whoever is pissed off at that given moment is just some side event that Blizzard has no problem ignoring.

If they ignore it they ignore free money.

[Pwellzor]

If they ignore it they ignore free money.

Because internet engineer/accountant/marketing director said so.

[Thanatoss]

If they ignore it they ignore free money.

They aren't ignoring free money. Look at everything they're getting from Hearthstone/HotS/Overwatch/etc. Mmo's isn't where the money is

[corebit]

Nice cherry picking but yes, its not about "you" its about the group. But also this idea is exaggerated, there were guilds recruiting boomkins, enh shamans, feral druids, shadow priests etc.. and on nost and back in vanilla I raided with all the hybrid specs. Not sure about rets and prot pallies since I never raided on ally side. Did quite a bit with hybrid tanks on horde side though, even enhancement shaman tanks, no they didn't main tank raids but properly speced they could off tank or tank dungeons. Hunters tanked nef back in vanilla, there were actually more possibilities surprisingly even if the specs were not exactly equally balanced, it wasn't all that bad unless you wanted to main tank all the time as something other than a warrior. The major problem in many cases wasn't that the spec was terrible its just that their wasn't many options for gear for hybrid specs since the tier sets were designed for primary roles. I you want more hybrid love try TBC or pvp in vanilla were many hybrids shined.

It's not cherry picking when the vast majority who played hybrid classes shared the same experiences I did. I think the one doing the cherry picking is you, trying to find examples out of them when in truth they were a rarity and in most cases pals with the raid leader who allowed them to raid with such specs. Or warriors who got to hoard all the tanking gear and all the DPS plate gear and the two-handed weapons, because they belonged to the blessed class trio.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed vanilla a lot. I'm not bitter about it or something. I just don't put vanilla on a special pedestal and don't have any motivation to go back and play it since I remember clearly the good experiences and the very shitty ones. If I wanted my nostalgia fill, I would have chosen TBC as my preferred servers, but by then I was already playing a warlock.

[Deleted]

Look at how long Square said no to a Final Fantasy VII remake. Just sayin'.

Pretty much this.

[MoanaLisa]

We don't have the law on our side and we don't have the support of players against a legacy server. What else can we do? The only thing left is to convince Blizzard to change their minds on where they stand.

What is your goal in this thread? (note I do not know if you stand for or against a legacy server)

Half-jokingly my goal for the thread is to keep it on track. More seriously you've raised some good points but to convince Blizzard to spend money and resources on this the convincing will require something that I don't think we actually have. Enough knowledge of the ins and outs on exactly what Blizzard needs to do to make it happen, enough knowledge on the economics of this, and enough knowledge of how and where it would stop.

For instance: Would a vanilla realm be PVP or PVE? How would that limit the audience by splitting it and requiring yet more resources for support? If Blizzard says yes to vanilla, how can they say no to BC, to Wrath or other versions? Is all of this going to be in one client? How will that work and what will it take for a full vanilla version of the game to run on the same client as retail? If there are to be two separate clients, how will that work with battlenet? How many people will want multiple clients installed on their PC's? How much of a problem can multiple clients cause? If Blizzard installs a suitable voice chat system that is in testing now should it be available to the vanilla version of the game? Is that still vanilla? How much will this cost players?

There are a lot of questions that few have even mildly bothered to consider from Blizzard's point of view. That above isn't even really a start.

[zorkuus]

If they ignore it they ignore free money.

From bums who don't have any to spare?