[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Gephyrophobia]

LOL. This guy's logic is flawless. So if you were to play CS:GO , you'd complain that you ACTUALLY had to control your spray and not just instant headshot everything, am I right? Honestly why are you even posting here?

The fuck are you talking about? How does me saying WoW's 2004 gameplay is trash because you don't even have to aim your shit mean I think other games should be more like it? That's the fucking exact opposite of what I said. Your reading comprehension is impeccable.

Let's try this another way. Playing UI Whack-a-mole isn't compelling to begin with and only complicates a baseline casual experience. If you want WoW's gameplay to actually have real depth, and are settling for a bar on your screen that fills up and gets spent, you're adorable and naive. Accept that wow's gameplay is casual-fare and stop pretending like it can hold a candle to games that came out this decade.

There's a reason that WoW's PVP is basically dead and not much of an esport anymore and it has everything to do with the fact that other PVP games in today's market have more to offer than macros and skill icons.

[Dastuross]

The fuck are you talking about? How does me saying WoW's 2004 gameplay is trash because you don't even have to aim your shit mean I think other games should be more like it? That's the fucking exact opposite of what I said. Your reading comprehension is impeccable.

Let's try this another way. Playing UI Whack-a-mole isn't compelling to begin with and only complicates a baseline casual experience. If you want WoW's gameplay to actually have real depth, and are settling for a bar on your screen that fills up and gets spent, you're adorable and naive. Accept that wow's gameplay is casual-fare and stop pretending like it can hold a candle to games that came out this decade.

There's a reason that WoW's PVP is basically dead and not much of an esport anymore and it has everything to do with the fact that other PVP games in today's market have more to offer than macros and skill icons.

You seem to have no interest in current WoW, so why are you playing it? obviously the game has changed to actually include atleast some engaging gameplay (threat was not fun gameplay, neither was stam stacking and hoping your healers were decent) active mitigation is not going anywhere, if you like other MMOs so much go play them, nobody's going to miss you, i promise.

[Gephyrophobia]

You seem to have no interest in current WoW, so why are you playing it? obviously the game has changed to actually include atleast some engaging gameplay (threat was not fun gameplay, neither was stam stacking and hoping your healers were decent) active mitigation is not going anywhere, if you like other MMOs so much go play them, nobody's going to miss you, i promise.

All other MMOs are effectively dead. The genre is dead. I have friends that play WoW and I've got too much shit on my account to just quit. Blizzard pumps out pretty decent bossfights that keep me coming back. As far as "engaging gameplay", WoW never had it, and never will with it's combat system. That's why I'm excited to play Legion Protadin because I can just sit back and relax and enjoy the bosses. Sorry you don't feel that way, and that building and spending resources is your shtick, but it ain't mine.

[Dastuross]

All other MMOs are effectively dead. The genre is dead. I have friends that play WoW and I've got too much shit on my account to just quit. Blizzard pumps out pretty decent bossfights that keep me coming back. As far as "engaging gameplay", WoW never had it, and never will with it's combat system. That's why I'm excited to play Legion Protadin because I can just sit back and relax and enjoy the bosses. Sorry you don't feel that way, and that building and spending resources is your shtick, but it ain't mine.

And this is exactly why i want blizzard to do something like i posted on the other page, give passive and active options in most talent trees, make the active ones slightly better, so anyone mythic raiding that wants engaging gameplay can have it, and anyone that's just fucking around and doesn't care can have their faceroll. Holy Shield is a great example of this, people who want an easier play style pick HS, people who want more engaging pick Seraphim.

[Gephyrophobia]

And this is exactly why i want blizzard to do something like i posted on the other page, give passive and active options in most talent trees, make the active ones slightly better, so anyone mythic raiding that wants engaging gameplay can have it, and anyone that's just fucking around and doesn't care can have their faceroll. Holy Shield is a great example of this, people who want an easier play style pick HS, people who want more engaging pick Seraphim.

But that's basically exactly what they've done for almost every class? You talent into active options if you want them. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the removal of holy power and how I'm elated about it because I don't like filling up resource bars.

[Dastuross]

But that's basically exactly what they've done for almost every class? You talent into active options if you want them. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the removal of holy power and how I'm elated about it because I don't like filling up resource bars.

That's the issue though, making talent trees passive and active means that different types of players can choose different playstyles. removing any sort of resource management is just dumbing down the class for EVERYONE, anyways, holy power was easy as hell to manage, but it was SOMETHING to track and think about.

[Gephyrophobia]

That's the issue though, making talent trees passive and active means that different types of players can choose different playstyles. removing any sort of resource management is just dumbing down the class for EVERYONE, anyways, holy power was easy as hell to manage, but it was SOMETHING to track and think about.

And my whole argument about holy power is that it doesn't matter if it's easy or difficult to manage, but that it's not fun.

[Dastuross]

And my whole argument about holy power is that it doesn't matter if it's easy or difficult to manage, but that it's not fun.

So..having nothing to track and pay attention to is more fun? rogues have had combo points forever, like someone said on the other page, holy power is more or less just warrior rage, so is rage not fun? i'm honestly curious, because i've always found all of those fun to min/max.

[Melsiren]

And my whole argument about holy power is that it doesn't matter if it's easy or difficult to manage, but that it's not fun.

Your entire argument is managing -anything- is not fun.

If you took the time to actually read posts by the more well known people in this thread you'd understand we don't disagree with Holypower being removed. Our issue is Holypower being removed and having nothing meaningful replace it.

[Dastuross]

Your entire argument is managing -anything- is not fun.

we don't disagree with Holypower being removed. Our issue is Holypower being removed and having nothing meaningful replace it.

agreed 100% idgaf about holy power itself, it's not having ANYTHING to replace it that sucks, having to watch some sort of resource system would be nice.

[Lysozyme]

"I don't see the need for classes to have decision making at all, I'd rather just smack the boss with a fun priority system and prove my "skill" by surmounting brutally difficult boss mechanics."

Why not both? The need for classes to have decision making is because they're boring as fuck if you don't. How do you make a priority system fun if you don't have to make decisions? Especially for tanks?

[Gephyrophobia]

So..having nothing to track and pay attention to is more fun? rogues have had combo points forever, like someone said on the other page, holy power is more or less just warrior rage, so is rage not fun? i'm honestly curious, because i've always found all of those fun to min/max.

If you read my posts, I've already stated that no, I don't think rage is fun, and yes, not having to track and pay attention to shit is more fun for me i.e. enhancement shaman. Feral, rogues, and windwalkers are probably the least enjoyable specs in the game for me.

[Dastuross]

If you read my posts, I've already stated that no, I don't think rage is fun, and yes, not having to track and pay attention to shit is more fun for me i.e. enhancement shaman. Feral, rogues, and windwalkers are probably the least enjoyable specs in the game for me.

And what about the majority of us that actually enjoy having to make choices during combat. personally playing a spec that a deaf, blind, half dead, and tripping downs syndrome ant could play is not fun, it makes me want to quit the game because i'm bored out of my mind playing something like that.

[Gephyrophobia]

Your entire argument is managing -anything- is not fun.

If you took the time to actually read posts by the more well known people in this thread you'd understand we don't disagree with Holypower being removed. Our issue is Holypower being removed and having nothing meaningful replace it.

agreed 100% idgaf about holy power itself, it's not having ANYTHING to replace it that sucks, having to watch some sort of resource system would be nice.

Which is why all the other tanks will have a resource mechanic for you to play, and paladins will be the resource-less class for players like me?

"I don't see the need for classes to have decision making at all, I'd rather just smack the boss with a fun priority system and prove my "skill" by surmounting brutally difficult boss mechanics."

Why not both? The need for classes to have decision making is because they're boring as fuck if you don't. How do you make a priority system fun if you don't have to make decisions? Especially for tanks?

Why is it boring for you to just hit the boss? The boss should engage you enough as it is. But I don't know, big numbers? I don't have any problem finding enhancement the most fun spec in the game which is just mash a bunch of hard hitting shit. That's satisfying for me and they're taking it away by adding the maelstrom bar.

[Dastuross]

Ok, since there's no getting through to this guy no matter how you explain it...

How are the raid bosses in legion feeling? as a no alpha pleb i haven't had the chance to test anything yet

[Lysozyme]

If you're playing Enhancement by just mashing buttons, you're playing Enhancement wrong. But more to the point, a tank should not be played by merely pressing whatever button happens to light up at a given time. You should have to react to what the boss is doing, and not merely by running away when the boss is casting an ability on you.

Earlier you said "The fact I can right click a mob and leave the room and still kill it is pathetic". Does this not lend to the argument that you ought to have to do more than merely right click a mob to do your job? I.e. add complexity in how you play?

[Gephyrophobia]

If you're playing Enhancement by just mashing buttons, you're playing Enhancement wrong.

I was implying that it's spammy and there's no bar to fill, not that I just roll my face on the keyboard.

But more to the point, a tank should not be played by merely pressing whatever button happens to light up at a given time. You should have to react to what the boss is doing, and not merely by running away when the boss is casting an ability on you.

Says who? LOL. I did it in Wrath and Cata. Look at Alysrazor, that boss was an awesome fight for tanks and active mitigation didn't exist back then.

Earlier you said "The fact I can right click a mob and leave the room and still kill it is pathetic". Does this not lend to the argument that you ought to have to do more than merely right click a mob to do your job? I.e. add complexity in how you play?

Yeah, like overhauling the entire combat engine so it's more like an action game and less like a Weak Auras DBM minigame, but that's not going to happen.

[Lysozyme]

Because if you're not reacting to what the boss is doing, why is your role any different to that of a DPS'?

Why do you insist on calling it a minigame? Just because you don't like it? Having to actually press your buttons in a meaningful way is the game, just because it's not a part of the game you enjoy doesn't mean it isn't.

Tanks can be spammy. Prot Paladin on Live with haste cap is pretty spammy. Prot Warrior and Brewmaster Monk are extremely spammy, since they have a GCD filler. That's not the issue. What is it about having a bar to fill that you don't like?

[Dastuross]

I was implying that it's spammy and there's no bar to fill, not that I just roll my face on the keyboard.



Says who? LOL. I did it in Wrath and Cata. Look at Alysrazor, that boss was an awesome fight for tanks and active mitigation didn't exist back then.



Yeah, like overhauling the entire combat engine so it's more like an action game and less like a Weak Auras DBM minigame, but that's not going to happen.

So from what i gather, go play a RPG, because that sounds like the kind of game you want.

Also, this game as evolved over the last 11 years, that's why it's stayed alive, just because fights 2-3 xpacs ago were a certain way, does not in any way mean that fights and class mechanics now should stay the same, that's how you kill a game, not keep it alive.

[Melsiren]

Which is why all the other tanks will have a resource mechanic for you to play, and paladins will be the resource-less class for players like me?

That's the heart of all of this and why this is all pants on head retarded game design.

At this point in a 11 year old game Blizzard should not be changing classes to try to draw in a new type of person to play a class. People who are playing Prot Pally right now are one of two people.

1.)People who are so casual they don't really care what they play as long as they think it's cool.
2.)people who play the class because they enjoy the core game play of the class.

Blizzard should be refining the game play themes for the 2nd type of player, but instead they completely changed it to draw in a new type of player.
The fact is if blizzard wanted to make a resource less tanking class it should have been Vengeance DH since they will only be drawing in new people to play them.

In the same light I feel for you, I don't think Enh shamans should have been given a resource after how they've functioned for the past 8 years.
In the same light I feel for what the hell ever you're upset about with bear druids.


Also the argument that some one who has a PHD (or two) worth of time committed to a class should just change and get over it baffles my mind. Some of us have things we're very proud of on our Prot Pallies. Things you can't get any more, or if you can hardly carry the same meaning as it did when we got it. Some of us have sentimental attachments to our Prot Pallies and are having issues moving on.

It's great that your casual little heart finally found the resource less class that you can brain numb your way though the game with. It should not have been a class that had an established strong community that actively did their best to overcome obstacles to be the best they can be.