Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[JustRob]

Goddammit. I wish I'd played on Nostalius. I never even heard of that private server until this happened. It looks like it was awesome, and I feel really shitty that I missed it.

[Bigbazz]

It's not strange at all, everyone rolls on those private servers equipped with the knowledge of which class was OP at that time. And since private servers are essentially frozen in time and will never receive balance fixes, those classes will remain OP forever.

Well Paladins were not overpowered in 3.3.5, and infact class balance was very tight in that patch, perhaps the tightest balancing of any patch to date. Should be mentioned also that said server does not have Shadowmourne available and also only has T7 content open. So none of what you have said applies in a way that could form the pattern that we see.

That pattern being that Paladin is by far the most popular, followed by Warrior (strong in 3.3.5 but not particularly in T7 progression gear due to prior nerfs to combat scaling) and DK.

[Gadzooks]

The Nostalrius Army

The temper tantrum for free shit continues...

[Tart]

I had sex with Jon Goodman.

Oh look I can claim stuff on the internet too.

I find it a bit to petty for someone to actually do that. I can't see an adult phoning them up and throwing his toys out the pram. I won't be buying legion but I won't be phoning them and letting them know.

- - - Updated - - -

Goddammit. I wish I'd played on Nostalius. I never even heard of that private server until this happened. It looks like it was awesome, and I feel really shitty that I missed it.

It was magical mate. It really was.

[bluspacecow]

The subscription isn't for the software, it's supposed to be for new content and support services.

No it isn't.

Your subscription pays for a limited license to access the game.

Blizzard owns everything in game , the toons you use , the gear they have , the items they have , the client software , the server software and all assessts in game.

Always have.

[Tackhisis]

why the population of Nostalrius didn't choose to play on one of the many free WoD illegal realms instead? You could say there was genuine interest for that particular incarnation of World of Warcraft.

Because everything after WotLK is absolutely unplayable with the mangos emulator.

[AeneasBK]

I'm digging pretty far back, but I think the biggest motivators for me to go out and explore new areas beyond what quests offered me was due to running out of quests in the zone I was in, and having no choice but to trek halfway across the world to start picking up new quests in a level appropriate zone (even if it meant taking some weird-ass path to get there since there were high level zones between point A and point B).

I'll grant you there is a lot of "where is a good place to quest I've done all the ones here" asked in general And I remember that from the time too. But I think to an extent that is a lot of "people not actually doing all the quests" or "not doing the dungeon quests from that zone". When you become much more familiar with what quests are available where, levelling is pretty straightforward. But yes, certainly first time around, exploring "to find more quests" was a thing. Same as the "Hero's Call" board of today, there were usually NPCs in the cities to send you to various level relevant places. They were just different NPCs in different places.

[Charge me Doctor]

And then came along Cata dungeons and ppl cried about how hard they were and they got nerfed to the ground.

People don't want to be forced thru hard things now.

just think about having to do attunements again...ppl complained about having to do dailies to get things in mop.

"let me just jump on my resto shammy for this boss... oh wait i need 2 weeks to do attunement sorry guys".

[Tart]

"let me just jump on my resto shammy for this boss... oh wait i need 2 weeks to do attunement sorry guys".

That's no problem, we'll still be here when your ready and the you'll have a blast when you do.

All good things come to those who wait.

- - - Updated - - -

The major worry I have about a legacy server is what happens when people have and done everything and the clamour for TBC kicks in. Will we have another vanilla vs expansion battle again?

[Charge me Doctor]

Or make the game objectively compelling, whatever works you know?

If the game is compelling no one will ever sit in a fucking city

[Gadzooks]

Blizzard have got themselves in way to deep to make those changes now. Could you imagine the uproar of the modern warcraft player if they actually had to search for other players again. The only solution is a trial vanilla server to put this to bed once and for all.

First you have to get Blizzard to spend the millions of dollars to make a vanilla version of the game, which they're not.

This isn't copying filed onto a blank server and tweaking some text files. They have to rebuild most of it - in other words, except for art and a good portion of the graphics, they have to do all of the work they did in the 4 years leading up to the release of the game, with an entire development team, on software and hardware.

That's not a week or two and couple of developers. They'd need to create, staff and pay for a new division within the company, to create a unique version of WoW, so as not to take dev hours and budget away from Legion, or whatever is after that (even IF they were to attempt this, I wouldnt even expect a beta of it until the bulk of Legion is over with to START work on it)

And before a neckbeard starts mooing that they don't have to - yes they do. You're demanding a commercial product with a cost to the customer attached to it, and that has a price tag to the development and the requirements. They're not going to use the crap code an illegal server does for a product they will have to offer 24/7 uptime, character data integrity, and reliable access through authentication servers. That's not even including GM support, tech support, and billing support.

This is NOT a small project, and nothing will happen if and until Blizzard decides to spend the millions it would take to offer something like this.

It's real easy to spend the money of scoff that it wouldn't take that much, but the reality is, Blizzard won't spend a dime, unless they have a business plan that shows potential profitability, so they can defend their budget to the CEO and the shareholders. Blizzard is not a think tank that throws up sandbox, half finished games for shits and giggles, and they're not going to use a reverse engineered attempt at copying their tech as a commercial product.

Wishes and dreams are one thing, but they suck to build actual business models on, so just stop already.

The best way to put this to bed? Stop fucking whinging for a vanilla realm. Blizzard said "No". Learn to be disappointed.

[shoc]

I'll grant you there is a lot of "where is a good place to quest I've done all the ones here" asked in general And I remember that from the time too. But I think to an extent that is a lot of "people not actually doing all the quests" or "not doing the dungeon quests from that zone". When you become much more familiar with what quests are available where, levelling is pretty straightforward. But yes, certainly first time around, exploring "to find more quests" was a thing. Same as the "Hero's Call" board of today, there were usually NPCs in the cities to send you to various level relevant places. They were just different NPCs in different places.

Another thing I'd like to add, since leveling and travel was much slower, when I looked up potential upgrades on Thottbot I remember actually thinking "Hmm.. this quest in the Hinterlands gives a pretty sweet Mace, I'm going to go after it." but getting to the Hinterlands for the first time was a serious challenge.

I also didn't want to set my Hearthstone to Hinterlands because as an Orc Enhance Shaman I didn't have any connections to any capital cities, for some reason getting to Undercity from Hinterlands was a no-go.

But again, I think that could be alleviated somewhat by nerfing legacy player's experience gain. I don't see how the player experience would change so much just because the story and landscape changed.

[Deleted]

- Cataclysm 1-60 world and leveling experience. But excusable, IMO. Better quests doesn't make for worse Pre-TBC WoW.
- Classes are not what they used to be. But more than a handful of specs being viable could be a good thing.

While I generally do like your idea, these limitations are deal breakers.

Community was built around overcoming challenges together, including leveling content. In Cataclysm railroaded single player leveling experience there is no challenge. Whenever there is slightest hint of possibility of challenge, Blizzard has placed NPCs to help players fight. Zones are completely disconnected from each other with linear story lines and excessive phasing. Dungeons are no longer connected to zones. Player is called hero and NPCs rush to help that hero. Small RPG things like ammo, having to eat/drink, using reagents are all gone. Classes have lost their unique fun abilities.

In pre-mid-WoTLK questing experience there were plenty of quests that connected different zones or even continents. Danger was everywhere. No phasing, meaning players could join other players at any time they wanted. Dungeons were integrated into zones. There were group quests, chain quests for dungeon keys. Players felt like adventurers, not heroes, which is major factor that separates single player game from MMORPG.

Cataclysm questing is everything that is wrong with questing in WoW. It is single player experience that does not belong in MMORPG. It is a deal breaker.

[MoanaLisa]

The major worry I have about a legacy server is what happens when people have and done everything and the clamour for TBC kicks in. Will we have another vanilla vs expansion battle again?

That's one of three or four reasons why I don't believe that Blizzard will change their collective minds about this. Once they give in on one thing, a precedent is set and there will be no end to it. Kind of difficult to say OK to a vanilla server and no to BC or Wrath or anything later if it comes to that. And it won't be a legacy server singular. It will have to be server(s), probably one for PVP and one for PVE in each region.

Up to them though if they want to open, walk through that door and step into a sinkhole. I hope they don't. They would be better off just saying what they want to do in short simple statements without a lot of backing and filling. The only thing wrong with Brack's speech about this at Blizzcon? He didn't stop after he said "No".

[Doomchicken]

http://i.imgur.com/jxtOQlu.jpg

So Pretty much 1/3 of all players consisted of 2 classes. Good balance /s

[Tackhisis]

That's what made Nostalrius so large, the scripting was better than just about any private server made before it.

Hunter's lvl 10 quest was broken, and half of Razorfen Crawl and god knows what else... It just wasn't.

[corebit]

That's no problem, we'll still be here when your ready and the you'll have a blast when you do.

All good things come to those who wait.

But what if your guild bleeds members to that other guild with better progression, so you are perpetually stuck doing attunements for everyone else, who eventually jump to more progressed guilds. The joys of TBC.

The major worry I have about a legacy server is what happens when people have and done everything and the clamour for TBC kicks in. Will we have another vanilla vs expansion battle again?

That's another inconvenient question that most private server fans refuse to tackle.

So Pretty much 1/3 of all players consisted of 2 classes. Good balance /s

Of course the golden boy of Vanilla: warriors took the top spot by a majority. Unlike their vanilla noob selves ten years ago, people on private servers already come knowing what's OP and what's not.

[Propainn]

That's one of three or four reasons why I don't believe that Blizzard will change their collective minds about this. Once they give in on one thing, a precedent is set and there will be no end to it. Kind of difficult to say OK to a vanilla server and no to BC or Wrath or anything later if it comes to that. And it won't be a legacy server singular. It will have to be server(s), probably one for PVP and one for PVE in each region.

Up to them though if they want to open, walk through that door and step into a sinkhole. I hope they don't. They would be better off just saying what they want to do in short simple statements without a lot of backing and filling. The only thing with Brack's speech about this at Blizzcon? He didn't stop after he said "No". They need to say yes and no more often. They can always change their mind later.

Does anyone know how much a pair of servers would cost to set up initially, and then operating costs either annually, or monthly?

I'm curious at this point, not trying to argue anything just legitimately curious if you or anyone with experience in the industry could pass along that info?

I've made my stance clear, I'm just here to try to see if I can't gain a bit of insight from both sides from here on out.

[AeneasBK]

Another thing I'd like to add, since leveling and travel was much slower, when I looked up potential upgrades on Thottbot I remember actually thinking "Hmm.. this quest in the Hinterlands gives a pretty sweet Mace, I'm going to go after it." but getting to the Hinterlands for the first time was a serious challenge.

Not sure how you can say this, and yet go on to say:

But again, I think that could be alleviated somewhat by nerfing legacy player's experience gain. I don't see how the player experience would change so much just because the story and landscape changed.

Maybe it was the terrible gear you got too then. You actually found yourself wanting to do inconvenient or "above your capabilities atm" quests because the reward was worth it, rather than just "going through the motions" safe in the knowledge that the game will provide all the gear you need to order, regularly. Getting the Stalvan questline done 7 or 8 lvls early netted you a lovely 1h axe. Paladins wanted to run SFK despite it being a massive ball-ache to get to because the class quest reward was utterly imba even up to mid 30s.

I can absoultely understand why people don't like that style of design, and absolutely prefer the more regimented design (hell, the gear sets even match up so your toon doesn't look like he dressed in the dark every time) of quest reward loot. But I'd say its another example of the game being made "too tidy" and as a result feeling less like a "world".

This whole topic is massively subjective though, and I wouldn't dare to tell someone they were WRONG for enjoying the new style more. But certainly appreciation of the old style shouldn't be ruled out as "mad". (Not that you've been anything but cordial; but this thread... the things we've seen.... :P)

[Deleted]

That's what made Nostalrius so large, the scripting was better than just about any private server made before it. It legit felt Blizz-like bar no wall jumping

Actually, no. There are much better scripted servers around.
What made Nost so large was the huge advertising campaigns done on several websites and forums (this forum included).
Thinly veiled into various "vanilla discussions" - and the only server mentioned ever, was Nost.