Order Halls = Garrisons

[TheEaterofSouls]

Does anyone know if you can unlock player quests and dailies using this garrison mission system? Or is it our followers that get to have fun. Didnt blizzard say they want players to do the missions, the follower missions are just scouting missions?

Did they scrap the order hall mission quest unlocks and the follower customization?

[Mafic]

Why not just have the quests appear as dailies from the NPC's themselves?

Exactly.

Why do we need to farm order hall resources to be able to obtain things from the order hall NPC's when we should be able to obtain rewards directly from the world or directly from the artifact forge?:

Why do we need NPC's to go on missions for quests when we should be able to walk up to an NPC in the WORLD and pick up a quest?

Why do we even need followers to be geared up since we have little control of interaction with them in the world in the first place?

[TheEaterofSouls]

the question id like to know is how much of the core non-raiding endgame is centered around missions players can't do?

[BeneditaNBeatriz]

im a bit tired of this follower crap tbh. in any kind of way. just make it normal quests...

[nazrakin]

Does anyone know if you can unlock player quests and dailies using this garrison mission system? Or is it our followers that get to have fun. Didnt blizzard say they want players to do the missions, the follower missions are just scouting missions?

Did they scrap the order hall mission quest unlocks and the follower customization?

It does unlock quests. Heres an example someone posted earlier:

"Guys, there seems to be a lot of misinformation here. I've leveled a monk to 108 with this most recent build to test the campaign out. Yes, there is a garrison aspect involving sending out certain followers to do little tasks for you.
HOWEVER, and this is a big however, so far these have not been the main focus when it comes to how your character interacts with the campaign. Yes, there are special missions that you need to send your character out on, but one in particular that the article missed happens just after you investigate the monastery.

Basically, your follower calls in backup because the situation is too dire and they need you to mobilize your crew to fight back an invasion. This leads to an invasion effort out in the world and you push back the legion and start another questline that I haven't unlocked yet. This leads to the monks of the class hall to prepare for war and start a war effort of personal training (done by your character in the open world), and AQ style war effort (I had to collect 500 fish and that's taken me a few days), and the introduction of a new trainee class that you can use to do missions.

It's not just garrison simulator 2.0 and this article barely touches the tip of the iceberg."

[TheEaterofSouls]

It does unlock quests. Heres an example someone posted earlier:

sounds pretty cool actually. If the diablo style system stays i honestly couldnt give a shit about the garrison missions

[Adramelch]

In terms of the "WHY?" of things, I can see their reasoning story-wise. As a Class Order Leader, you send the "masses" to do the menial tasks and deal with the small dangers. If the troops you send are not strong enough to deal with said threats, they might die. If they find out a bigger threat that only you can handle, they come back to you with the information. Whether you like it or not, it makes sense that it would work like this. Sure they could have avoided the feature but since they didn't, the way they are carrying it out makes sense to me.

[nazrakin]

are we sure theyre not making things up

Glancing at the alpha forums I see people mentioning the same quest so it sure seems like hes telling the truth.

[Dhrizzle]

"There are some similarities". Yeah, fuck that if the only similarities are the ones that people hated. Who gives a shit about a mailbox, or the AH. Not even the herb garden or the mine. People hated the follower system. And that is exactly what they've kept from it for Legion. :/

You're confusing the idea "a lot of people see problems with the garrisons" with "a lot of people see the same problems with you in the garrison."

But the follower system IS LITERALLY pushing a button and then get yums. A good game is where you don't notice this notion, and thus, you don't care.

And the auction house IS LITERALLY pushing a button and then get "yums." Crafting IS LITERALLY pushing a button and then get "yums." If a good game is where you don't notice that notion then WoW has never been a good game.

When you did the MoP Landfall quests, dailies, you did not stop to think about "what the fuck I'm doing here?"

No, because the initial glut of dailies in MoP was enough to make me stop and think "what the fuck an I doing here?" and I stopped playing shortly after getting enough Klaxxi rep to finish the loremaster achievement. Pressing the buttons was not appealing and the "yums" weren't compelling enough to keep me playing.

But in a garrison, after pushing buttons on 5-6 chars? Pffhh. Again, if you think that it doesn't matter WHAT and HOW you play, then we have nothing to talk about. Like I said I want engaging, deep content that entertains me, not this crap that the follower system was. There is no depth in it, there is no narrative, there is no reasoning, it is not entertaining. You literally just push buttons and then get treat.

Yet you carried on with 5 or 6 characters - for what reason?

Right. So your argument is WoW's follower system is good, if you don't like it, you just go elsewhere. 5 million people did that, mind you. And then again: IS THAT GOOD FOR THE GAME? You literally igored everything I said and just repeat yourself.

Like pretty much every other feature in the game, it's good for people who like it and can be mostly ignored by people who find that the system isn't fun or the rewards not worth the effort.

If you don't see the problem in this part then really, just please don't answer.

Whoops sorry, I answered. Really though, why is it a problem to stop doing an activity when it stops being interesting?

[Demeter]

I enjoyed the follower aspect of Garrisons, I jut missed the open world social interaction of old school WoW. As long as they keep the social aspect and open world fun that WoW used to have I have no problems with them using some of the stuff from Garrisons so long as it doesn't encourage the same behaviors as WoD, by that I mean people never leaving their Garrisons.

I am sick and tired of looking at WoW a game that I have loved for so many years with such a negative attitude, I am done throwing salt at a game I love. I am just going to provide positive feedback in hopes that Blizzard will listen and bring positive and good change to the game.

[Deleted]

1. Piss off with your vanilla talk. It's bad enough your crew has already destroyed the general forum.
2. Key differences in halls vs garrisons; you are surrounded by other players and 'you' are doing the quests/adventures as opposed to sending out your minions to have all the fun.

Yes, there is tech from garrisons and followers will be a part of it, but it's also pretty obvious to anyone not trying to post with an agenda ( yes you ), that they looked at what people hated about garrisons and adjusted them. Halls look fine.

Hahaha not really. If you didnt notice quest for you in order hall are nothing then gated garrison mision campaing. Instead waiting for 1 week you will have to do that follower crap. Thats it. It is gonna work way you think that they will just explore for you endless content what would you personaly do. It is just few Q propably 5 or 7 gated behind mission table.

[Gephyrophobia]

Followers and missions were the worst aspects of garrisons..... Sigh.

[Deleted]

Please not again facebook

[Exerionx]

Ehhh, I would prefer the whole system to be in the rubbish bin TBH. But that being said, it's an honest improvement from garrisons as they are right now. And these ones seem to actually make you go out in the world and complete quests and what not.

I'm still not really happy a similar system to garrisons are making it to Legion, but at least it's an improvement? :/

[Lei]

You're confusing the idea "a lot of people see problems with the garrisons" with "a lot of people see the same problems with you in the garrison."

Ahem, go and read Wowhead comments, better yet read the comments here?

And the auction house IS LITERALLY pushing a button and then get "yums." Crafting IS LITERALLY pushing a button and then get "yums." If a good game is where you don't notice that notion then WoW has never been a good game.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I think you mix up a lot of things. Auction house is just an auction house. You go there and buy things. Crafting requires you to 1. get the recipe, 2. get the mats. Now, how you get these things was a problem in WoD, too.

No, because the initial glut of dailies in MoP was enough to make me stop and think "what the fuck an I doing here?" and I stopped playing shortly after getting enough Klaxxi rep to finish the loremaster achievement. Pressing the buttons was not appealing and the "yums" weren't compelling enough to keep me playing.

So you're saying you stopped doing the missions because you got bored of it, and you stopped doing early (5.0) dailies because you got bored of it. YET, you cant stop arguing with me about how the follower system that you stopped doing because it was boring is superior to the later (5.1) mop dailies you didn't even do. Okay. Just please let us not talk, my brain hurts from your "logic".

Yet you carried on with 5 or 6 characters - for what reason?

Because I would've been an idiot to miss out on 6-7 million gold. Because when I started doing them on 5-6 chars, it was waaay before 6.1. Meaning: there was hope (well, not hope, more like natural expectation from the game I love?) that WoD wouldn't turn out to be a giant pile of shit.

Like pretty much every other feature in the game, it's good for people who like it and can be mostly ignored by people who find that the system isn't fun or the rewards not worth the effort.

This is where I really should stop answering, because this proves even more how shortsighted and inexpert you are. Some people would raid a training dummy if it dropped some shit. Some people would play farmville inside wow. Some people would play CoD in wow. Some people want to play HS inside wow. Some people would pay IRL money for P2W stuff. Some people want legacy servers. Some people like Conchita Wurst. Conclusion: You can find people for almost ANYTHING in the world. There are 7.5 billion people in the world, it's not that big of a deal to find 1-2 million who love something, even if it's SHIT, according to the rest of the world. As agame dev, you can bring ANYTHING into your game, and SOME people WILL like it. But the question is: do you want to turn your game into THAT game that occupies these things?
Second: If you put resource into bringing said features into your game, you WANT your players to play it. That's how you tell your game is successful. Normally, and naturally, your players will want to play it because it's NEW and FUN and deep, and engaging. And as a game developer you MUST trust in your game that it will engage people.
What happens when you don't trust in your game anymore? Blizz tried to force it on the players. Bear in mind incentifying is NOT equal to forcing. Force = follower system with the epic caches, + the gold attached to it + the legengary missions.

[Schmilblick]

Why not just have the quests appear as dailies from the NPC's themselves?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17610923952

[McFrotton]

I love the garrison system. SO yeah I am happy to see it coming back

[SoulSoBreezy]

Why do you need followers to access these? Why do I have to recruit a follower, level them up and gear them up to access outdoor content? You could have all these WITHOUT the follower crap. A scout could spawn in my order hall and cry about some terror somewhere, could give me a quest, and off I go.
To complete missions for the follower boots that shortens the missions by 10%? Fuck right off. :/
Much more fun than... what? if you liked the follower system, sure, order halls is an improvement for you, but what abut those who didn't like the follower system, at all?

It's an attempt at immersion. It's clearly not working with you and that's okay.
Thankfully like the wod garrison, there's no requirement for participation. On the other hand, the shipyard was required for an optional but very powerful ring, but oh well.

The problem was that it was implemented at all. Clicking on menus and wait for treat. You might wanna check out the thing called Skinner box. Seriously tho, go and check out Skinner box.

I think this depends on the timing of other activities. For wowhead, the class order hall campaign takes place while you level. So while there's a long mission wait time, there's something you can do - level. Feel free to sharpen that pitchfork, but I'd wait till 110 and the remaining missions (along with adventure map, suramar) are available since there's still so many on PH; the data mining suggests lots of tweaks to avoid the situation you fear.

- - - Updated - - -

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17610923952

Probably want to post in the right topic.
And immersion.

[lightofdawn]

the only terrible parts of the garrison are the loneliness and gearing up followers. missions were whatever, and followers themselves are fine. this system has less of the useless bullshit, and ill wait until it's out and we've had a while to get an in depth response, but people will complain to death about anything that remotely resembles the garrison

[SoulSoBreezy]

Followers and missions were the worst aspects of garrisons..... Sigh.

Interesting conclusion. Did it suck because it like, sucked? Or because activities outside the garrison were unfulfilling, and missions were one of the few compelling things left to do?

- - - Updated - - -

I cant even begin to imagine their thought process on this one, Garrisons and the Shityard are one of those features that are just objectively bad for an MMO, I refuse point blank to believe that the majority of players enjoy Garrisons.

Just admit defeat, accept the fact you made a shit feature and innovate like you always do, im seriously lost for words, I want to like Legion, I really do.

They appear to address the actual bad parts of the garrison, which were the reasons to *not* leave the garrison. Easy resources are gone, profession buildings are gone, and there's more stuff to do outside.
Table 2.0 is there, sure, but it looks to facilitate stuff to do outside the order hall, and not build on the paradigm of "offline progression" that was touted earlier. Hate if you want, but the mission table is pretty innovative. WoD fell flat for a lot of reasons, and the mission table wasn't one of them. But its compelling reward system compared to the rest of the expansion made it quite reviled.