Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[urasim]

You're not good at it either. He spins number to make current wow look like the best game. I use a different set of numbers to show current WoW isn't as good.
Everything does go in decline but why did it happen with Cata? Why did the 10 mill from Wod drop down to current numbers this fast? It must be because the game has never been better yeah?

As for your second part, you're comparing apples to oranges. The free server was private, aka illegal, so that pushes people away. It also doesn't have the official Blizzard name to it. Plenty of reasons for it to never, ever be able to reach that 7 million (so the entire "let's compare numbers" debate is incredibly flawed).

No he didn't... He was saying there are more people playing live than a free version of an 11 year old game. You ASSUME he meant that it means live is better. Assuming makes you look like an ___. Fill in the blank.

How is classic compared to classic apples to oranges? A legal server is pay to play, and pushes people away. You have no argument here. It's cute you think a classic server, created by Blizzard, will ever get close to the numbers of the original.

[Kyanion]

No way in hell 1 server had 150k players. MAYBE pulling a final fantasy of they've had 150k player accounts created, which again, it was free. A lot of folks probably signed up for that, not vanilla.

Also free accounts, easy to open multiple ones per person for multiboxing.

From what people are saying they had 150k players show up in a 10 day span or something like that. And I still call BS on that number. I'm not inclined to believe people running a private server illegally that they are going to be up front and honest with details.

[Triks]

N00bs still die from packs of mobs when they get cocky. Or do you somehow believe that the AI has been changed? That 11 years ago they had more complex AI in questing mobs than today?

I frankly find it hilarious how people considering themselves good players can then turn around and proclaim how challenged they are by Classic...

The AI hasn't been changed, the classes have. In Vanilla your class regenerated slower and had less burst at early levels than in WoD. Get it? Mobs were able to kill you because they were designed to be able to kill you. Pulling more than 2 - if that - was suicide for most classes and AoE farming was regarded as skillful because it was very hard to pull off and required thought on the part of the player.

That's besides the point. Nost got closed down because Blizzard got afraid of it. In Vanilla and TBC this wouldn't have been a problem because pservers were and are pieces of shit and they offered an inferior version of the game. Nowadays retail is the inferior experience and that's sad.

[Deleted]

Actually it's probably a good PR move on their end. More towards the side of legal things. What should they say about this?

This is just a classic dilemma. Say nothing and people will yell at you for saying nothing. Say no to vanilla, and pro vanilla people will get mad. So yes to vanilla and anti-vanilla people will get mad. There's going to be a vocal group no matter what they do.

[urasim]

I don't know, but neither does anyone else know how many won't pay. But 150k isn't the only amount of players interested in this, it's not as if this is the only private server to exist ever, and that doesn't even include the people like me who would be interested, but don't want to play on a private server.

You're assuming that Blizzard hasn't done the math to find out if it's profitable or not. They've been asked thousands of times and keeps saying no. Why is that?

[Kyanion]

I don't actually see it being a bad thing. Competition in business is healthy and can promote innovation.

Yeah except when that competition is running illegally and trying to steal Blizz IP. That is not competition that is theft.

And really are you a mod saying competition from illegally ran PS is a good thing? You are okay with them stealing from Blizz's IP?

[Unlimited Anza]

Decided to throw my opinion into a video as well.

[ls-]

I'm not quite sure how that changes that it's still running and working. It would be like calling Nintendo out for having GBA games on the 3DS run through an emulator.

Different architectures/structures, emulators are implemented in much simpler and less modular way.

Then we have so called blizzlike-ness. No one know how things were implemented originally. When you write server-side code for WoW features/systems, it's based on your understanding of how things work + some network sniffing to know how server-client interaction goes. You are trying to get as close as you can, some things are fairly easy to recreate, other may be a pain in the ass and take years of work. It took ~8 years, hundreds of developers across the globe and then few years of extra work from Nost team to reach current level of blizzlike-ness for Vanilla WoW.

[Vanyali]

And is it not feasible for Blizzard to run an emulator of the server themselves though then? I mean, if it works, it works. I don't think many people care about the technical aspect if it works.

It wouldn't stand up to huge amounts of players / uses code that belongs to someone else, so is *very* limited.

[Triks]

Different architectures, emulators are implemented in much simpler and less modular way.

Then we have so called blizzlike-ness. No one know how things were implemented originally. When you write server-side code for WoW features/systems, it's based on your understanding of how things work + some network sniffing to know how server-client interaction goes. You are trying to get as close as you can, some things are fairly easy to recreate, other may be a pain in the ass and take years of work. It took ~8 years, hundreds of developers across the globe and then few years of extra work from Nost team to reach current level of blizzlike-ness for Vanilla WoW.

Which begs the question why don't Blizzard make their own legacy servers? I know it will fracture the community even further but there clearly is a demand for something like this. Heck, I'd give my left nut for a TBC server and I know my buddies would as well.

[Holtzmann]

And is it not feasible for Blizzard to run an emulator of the server themselves though then? I mean, if it works, it works. I don't think many people care about the technical aspect if it works.

The thing is, it doesn't work. Or rather, it doesn't work to Blizzard's standards. The game requires massive tweaking to run on an emulator (scripting abilities, monsters, encounters, stuff like that), and at that point it's better to just write it from the ground up and avoid the issue of trying to find and put bandaids on all the holes in the code. Particularly since they would also have to harden the emulator's code to make sure it's secure (there is no guarantee it would be possible, either), so it could interact safely with Battle.net and Blizzard's other internal systems.

(And besides, it makes terrible computing sense to use an emulator to run your own product, because you're adding another layer of code between the program and the hardware, which can by itself create all sorts of issues. Emulation is never as efficient or reliable as running code on the silicon itself, and MMO servers must be all about efficiency and reliability.)

It really is far more complicated than most people think. Things are rarely easy when it comes to coding.

[urasim]

Nope it was 150k active accounts and 1 mil registered.

Why lie? They said it themselves "800k created accounts". The active accounts can be as much as half or a quarter of that in actual players. There are Nost players admitting in this and other threads that they had multiple accounts for many reasons(such as botting).

[Kyanion]

I think its a tad short sighted to look at this from a purely legal standpoint, you're not a lawyer, you arent in court, we can talk about this like adults.

Yes what they done was illegal, but it was through good intentions, to provide a unique experience for fans around the world to enjoy, because they love Blizzard and they love Blizzards games.

They've ceased and they've desisted and they've asked to work with Blizzard, all this is, is a bunch of die hard fans that are literally throwing themselves at the opportunity to play and enjoy Blizzards game, a game they no longer provide.

What they did was illegal. I don't care about 'good intentions'. You believe it was good intentions. I have reason to think that if they were willing to run a private server and that server also had gold sellers that it is quite possible some of the gold sellers were people behind running the game. They could have been profiting through that method and kept it away from the 'donations' thing.

I don't care if they LOVE the game and do it for the fans. What they are doing is still WRONG. But it is totally okay with you as long as you get to play Vanilla WoW for free!

[Barkloud]

Actually it's probably a good PR move on their end. More towards the side of legal things. What should they say about this?

a great many things can be said. silence is often the worse response. it just makes it look like you know you are purposely doing something shitty or shady.

why not say, we do not allow our proprietary information to be used by non blizzard entities. it does not matter what we think as fans of vanilla.

the silence is weird.

I am sure GC is a fine developer. that said he has a natural knack for communicating well to a massive audience. blizzard needs someone who can communicate to their audience once again.

[Djriff]

Yeah except when that competition is running illegally and trying to steal Blizz IP. That is not competition that is theft.

And really are you a mod saying competition from illegally ran PS is a good thing? You are okay with them stealing from Blizz's IP?

That's not what I said at all. What I'm saying is if blizzard decided to work with a PS to make a vanilla server, similar to how Everquest did, then competition between the different teams putting it together with the chance of one or two being picked to move forward wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Kyanion]

Yeah it was 150k accounts.
And I know for a fact that there was a good business on running bots to level characters to 60, and then selling those for either real money or gold on retail realms.

I wouldn't be surprised. Also wouldn't be surprised if people running the game just didn't 'instant create' a 60 and sell it off for some easy quick money. Wouldn't surprise me at all. They are already hosting an Illegal Server so hell why not go all in.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope it was 150k active accounts and 1 mil registered.

And that is if you believe the people running the game. They have no reason to give accurate numbers.

[MarizzaDraenor]

*pats you on the head* Awww aren't you just the cutest little thing. You DO know that some guilds use Monday as a raid night and just don't raid on Tuesday and clear all the content right? LOL and all the 'decent' guilds quit. Suuuuuure they did. You are just so bitter over Blizz taking away your toy that you have to rain on other people's parade. Too bad it does not bother me. I'll go swim around in my gold, do my raids, mess around with pet battles and enjoy the game. You on the other hand get to sit around and hope some PS shows up that is playable and then hope that Blizz does not get wind of it.

I actually posted 5-6 times on this thread. You have posted around 200 (???).

My last post wasnt attacking anyone but was just a tribute vid from nost which you can choose not to watch and move along. Instead you chose to attack me as well as countless other posters that defended Nost.

So if an active retail player that's having fun ingame is wasting enough time to read comments and post 200 times on a thread about a private server going down guess retail isn't going to well after all is it?

Keep afking in Garrison.And not a single proper raiding guild raids Mondays if content is on farm.

Also MMO champion chose to let this discussion open because its interesting so we post some links and staff from Nost mostly for people to see what was happening there and why it was fun. You will not be the one telling us what we can or cant post. If you dont like them move along and stop attacking people.

[Deleted]

No he didn't... He was saying there are more people playing live than a free version of an 11 year old game. You ASSUME he meant that it means live is better. Assuming makes you look like an ___. Fill in the blank.

How is classic compared to classic apples to oranges? A legal server is pay to play, and pushes people away. You have no argument here. It's cute you think a classic server, created by Blizzard, will ever get close to the numbers of the original.

You obviously didn't read his inital comment did you?

If community is destroyed because the game is improved... that community wasn't much of a community to begin with.

He implies the game improved, aka got better, which is not a fact. It's an opinion.
So it makes me look like I can read and makes you look like an ___. Fill in the blank.

Because you don't compare classic to classic. You compare Blizzard classic to private server classic. A distinction, you seem to not understand or simply dismiss entirely. And nowhere did I state that a vanilla server released in 2016 would reach the numbers from 2006. Again, you're really amazing at "this" aren't you?

[Holtzmann]

Which begs the question why don't Blizzard make their own legacy servers? I know it will fracture the community even further but there clearly is a demand for something like this. Heck, I'd give my left nut for a TBC server and I know my buddies would as well.

Money money money money moneeeeeeey.

And it's not just a matter of how much it would cost to implement and open the servers. It's a matter of how much money they could get from those servers a year from now. Or two years from now. Or four years. It has to be sustainable long-term, because as the whole thing with linking servers together made it very obvious, Blizzard hates the idea of closing servers like the IS hates infidels.

[automation]

The disconnect here is amazing, I still cant wrap my head around it.

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's morally wrong. In fact a lot of the time, it's exactly the opposite.

Also, the case hasn't and probably won't ever go to court; there's a chance a judge would rule in Nost's favor. This would mean, in fact, that we don't know right now whether or not it's illegal what they did.

Blizzard is using the threat of litigation as intimidation.