Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Bapestar]

There you go downplay it... nothing negative ever happened on Nost.

If... If you still enjoy live version of WoW for any reason... it was a toxic community.

I didn't say there wasn't. It wasn't like there was bashing, everytime you glanced chat.

[Pantalaimon]

You missed my point.

Then what was your point? It makes little sense to compare the current retail WoW to a game that has gradually become a single player game in their eyes when those same activities you quoted from my post existed from the very beginning. In that sense WoD is just as much a single player game as vanilla. Both had questing that you could get done without talking, same with dungeons, or random battlegrounds.

[Deleted]

As for the server itself? It was great for the first month until it went mainstream, then 4chan and a host of other sites discovered it. The community went from being a tight knit group of old schoolers well in to their twenties to toxic meme-spouting millenials that make barrens chat look like childs play, it was torture.

It balanced itself out later on, once more regular people started signing up as a result of Nost growing.

[Nostratdamnedus]

There you go downplay it... nothing negative ever happened on Nost.

If... If you still enjoy live version of WoW for any reason... it was a toxic community.

sure people on nos bitched out the live game, they also bitched about the other faction as well. But the difference between a Nost player and someone like you PartysaurusRex is that most of us spent our time actually playing the game instead of posting 2,181 times actively defending blizzard.

[Bapestar]

It's not false if he experienced it.

He made it seem like there was massive amounts of Blizz bashing, that isn't true at all.

[AeneasBK]

Its not false... that was MY experience. You weren't logged in 24 hours a day.

For the record I liked vanilla when it was vanilla... I just don't have selective memory when it comes to many pain points and how far the game has improved.

To be fair I would believe this if you didn't get out of the barrens. Barrens chat was meme central. So, kinda exactly like it was on live Authentic vanilla experience y'all,

Elsewhere in the game both horde or alliance, chat was mostly focused on grabbing people for group quests or coordination defenses against gankers (defenses, lol "run away!") or other PvPers. And selling stuff.

[Holtzmann]

WoW really opened the MMO market to the mainstream I'd argue, and most people honestly had no idea what we were getting ourselves into as it was our first MMO. I went and played EQ after the fact myself, so WoW was my first MMO experience ever.

Now, I had dealt with sequels before, but expansions are an entirely different beast. You pay full price for a "sequel" to a game that you will never be able to play again after the next "sequel" is released. That's an odd concept to grasp at first, especially for those who were young at launch, and one I never really thought about at the time.

From talking to people who wish for Classic servers, I've gathered that a lot of them don't really care whether the server really is Classic-mode or not. They all have some things they wouldn't mind being added to the Classic experience. Togglable AoE looting, for example, is something I don't think anyone I talked to was against. The current Looking For Group interface is another thing that most people I've talked to thought was a good idea. Improvements to the interface such as movable character/target panels and additional quickbars seem to be fairly unanimous as well.

From that, I've concluded that there are generally three things most people who want Classic servers truly miss: the sense of community (didn't take much deducing there, they're pretty vocal about it), class balance and rotational characteristics (specs varied widely in terms of both performance and complexity, and they weren't balanced against one another) and a world that felt bigger, more dangerous and more active. The problem to me isn't so much that the game isn't Vanilla anymore, it's that Blizzard quality-of-life'd their game away. WoW feels too convenient and things don't take enough effort to achieve anymore. The Skinner Box became too obvious, and a lot of people don't like that.

And to be honest, this streamlining of the game was probably part of the reason I burned out on it. I mained Hunter, and while I hated having to dedicate a whole damn bag slot for ammo or risk running out at the worst possible moment, when that was taken away my Dwarf girl felt less like a badass riflewoman firing Mammoth Cutters cast by her own hand using the solidified blood of an Old God (she was an Engineer, of course), and more like a mage with a ranged autoattack. Losing pet restrictions meant that I could use the same pet for everything, which was nice, but also resulted in my girl losing any reason to ever summon any of her other pets. There wasn't much maintenance required anymore, and even though that was basically just busywork that was removed, the class fantasy slowly eroded because of it.

On the other hand, I loved the removal of minimum range, the implementation of Focus (it never made sense to me Hunters used mana), and the reconfiguration of Hunters as being good at firing on the move. So while I disagree with some of the things that were done to the class, I very much like some other things done to it. That's why I couldn't see myself playing on a Classic server very long (particularly since I mained Marksmanship and cared nothing for PvP). I'm sure it would be a nice novelty, but eh. I like some of the quality of life changes implemented to the game way too much to give up on them.

Well, that was a nice ramble. Anyway, the point is: as I said it before, I get the appeal of Classic realms and wouldn't mind at all if they were implemented. It's just the chances of them being actually introduced are very slim, and some of the arguments made by the people who want them are just flat-out wrong. Of course, some of the arguments being made by people who are against Classic realms don't work either. I'm trying to call those out as I see them.

[A dot Ham]

sure people on nos bitched out the live game, they also bitched about the other faction as well. But the difference between a Nost player and someone like you PartysaurusRex is that most of us spent our time actually playing the game instead of posting 2,181 times actively defending blizzard.

I don't actively defend blizzard. In fact I quite frequently do my own blizz bashing. But for reasons that matter. I don't live my life with rose colored glasses I see it how it is.

And what does my post count matter?

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't say there wasn't. It wasn't like there was bashing, everytime you glanced chat.

There was in the starting zones... and in main cities.

[Namalia]

And what does my post count matter?

Because they are Nosdrones and don't have any real, tangible evidence to provide that Classic was OBJECTIVELY better than what we have now.

[Deleted]

ramble

It really was a nice ramble. I relate a lot. Props.

[Xpando]

I appreciate and see both sides of why people like Vanilla and why people like WOD . In the end the games are what you make it ... I am still subbed and have an awesome time playing with people on my server and try to host things every week with the same people . Every server live or PS has its baddies and toxic players but I still think this conversation would go a lot better if you take out the personal hatred of both and try to see it from a non personal emotional standpoint . I have did not play on Nost so I dont have that standpoint of what it looked like . I did play from 2004 to now and I am sure people still want to relive the olden days of the basic version of wow . Aside from f blizzard and all that stuff this conversation just goes in horrible circles of personal emotion and it really doesn't help progress on how to fix the issue. Make something progressive out of it instead of bashing everyone .

[Deleted]

Joe steals some medicine and sells it for a profit. Joe committed a crime, stealing.
Joe steals some medicine, because he has no money, to give to his suffering child. Joe committed a crime, stealing.
Both are crimes, yet the morality of the actions is very debatable. And that all comes down to each individual's personal moral code.

No, its NOT down to the personal moral code. using that you would live in anarchy. Both crimes get the SAME punishment cause its the SAME crime.
The law is without MORAL and it has to be otherwise we'd be back to eye for an eye.....

[Deleted]

It balanced itself out later on, once more regular people started signing up as a result of Nost growing.

I went back there myself after a few months it didn't seem to improve all that much to me, not by any respectable margin. I'm not stuck up but it was just cringeworthy, it feels like Nost is a perfect example of not being able to have anything nice because of other people. It was a fresh green patch that was quickly turned in to a messy garbage dump. Personally I blame 4chan. Whenever /v/ gets involved in anything it quickly turns in to a hatefilled hellhole full of narcissistic assholes.

[Osmeric]

Kotick is interesting. He is hell on games from a gamer's view, but overall has been really good at what he does. I find interviews with him quite interesting.

Yeah. He also made the comment that making games shouldn't be "fun" -- that is, game developers should not be making games that they would want to play, since (I am reading into this) they are not typical customers. This caused all sorts of outrage when he said it.

Given that Legion may be the first expansion developed with Kotick's power totally unhindered (after the rewrite of ATVI's bylaws that took effect in February), I'm interested in what effects of that we'll be able to discern in its design.

[Deleted]

Because they are Nosdrones and don't have any real, tangible evidence to provide that Classic was OBJECTIVELY better than what we have now.

I love your generalizations.
What's your real, tangible evidence for Retail being objectively better than Vanilla though?

[Morbownz]

In fact I quite frequently do my own blizz bashing. But for reasons that matter. I don't live my life with rose colored glasses I see it how it is.

You sound like a completely self-absorbed, arrogant asshole.

Infracted

[Deleted]

I don't think Blizzard can punish them more. They sent a cease and desist, which if complied to won't lead to legal damages. At least from my understanding.

not if they just turn the servers off. if they publish the code. may the lord have mercy with them

[Propainn]

Well, that was a nice ramble. Anyway, the point is: as I said it before, I get the appeal of Classic realms and wouldn't mind at all if they were implemented. It's just the chances of them being actually introduced are very slim, and some of the arguments made by the people who want them are just flat-out wrong. Of course, some of the arguments being made by people who are against Classic realms don't work either. I'm trying to call those out as I see them.

It was. Well thought out and written, thank you.

I would agree, most would at least appreciate an attempt to reimplement some of the mechanics, etc., that we miss back into the game. My only concern then is, would that really be beneficial to the community as a whole? How comfortable has the playerbase become with the current state of things, and how would changing these aspects effect their gameplay as well?

As much as I want legacy servers or some aspects of the game reinstated, would the latter actually be a positive for the remaining community? Or would it tank subs even more? It's a complicated situation as it stands, and most would agree we don't want to ruin the game for those that currently enjoy it, but some kind of compromise would be ideal.

[Dormie]

Played for over 10 years. Game is better now than it was then. Get over it.

You aren't very good with the whole making arguments thing are you

[Deleted]

People paid for Vanilla and can't play it anymore.

No, you paid for the access and being able to play on blizzard servers. Just like a Park with rides where you pay once an entry fee and can ride the rides as long as you want.