Watcher indicates that Legion is functionally still in Alpha

[styil]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17610511407#13

When discussing the Order Hall missions system in Legion, Ion (Watcher) Hazzikostas gives us some insight into the current state of the expansion:

"We haven't published a full explanation of the system, because we're still working out a few of the details - that's the nature of Alpha."

This indicates that, functionally, they are still in the middle of Alpha. There are still quite a few systems to flesh out before we can even consider beta at this point:
1. Order Hall Campaigns
2. Adventure Mode
3. Suramar max level zone
4. Level 110 rewards structure
5. Improved social features

And once those systems are finally implemented, there is still a lot of fine tuning to do in beta:
1. Dungeon balance (Mythic, Mythic+)
2. Raid balance (LFR, Normal, Mythic)
3. Class balance (PvE/PvP, artifacts, legendaries)
4. Max level world content testing (Suramar, Adventure Mode)
5. Social features testing
6. Bug fixing
7. Stress testing

These are still quite a while away and Watcher's post on the official forums reaffirms this. I was initially assuming an August release but after Watcher's post and seeing the above, I am leaning more towards a September release now.

[Taeldorian]

What are you talking about? What he indicates is that class hall missions and such aren't completed, and the class hall hasn't been fully fleshed out which is shit that most of us knew already (at least those on alpha). It was pretty obvious that they still have some stuff to do, it hasn't changed a thing about an august release date. It's still the same, and his post there doesn't reaffirm anything other than class halls which were JUST added to alpha, aren't fully completed yet, which was already known.

Tuning generally goes quick, as well. Depends on how they release the raids and such, but it goes by pretty fast unless anything is seriously broken.

[Denkou]

Good. I'd rather have them take their time and put out a quality product than rush things out just because people are complaining about a content drought, but have everything half-baked.

[styil]

What are you talking about? What he indicates is that class hall missions and such aren't completed, and the class hall hasn't been fully fleshed out which is shit that most of us knew already (at least those on alpha). It was pretty obvious that they still have some stuff to do, it hasn't changed a thing about an august release date. It's still the same, and his post there doesn't reaffirm anything other than class halls which were JUST added to alpha, aren't fully completed yet, which was already known.

Tuning generally goes quick, as well. Depends on how they release the raids and such, but it goes by pretty fast unless anything is seriously broken.

Yes, but it clears up the confusion that some people had as to whether we were functionally in Alpha or Beta.

- - - Updated - - -

Good. I'd rather have them take their time and put out a quality product than rush things out just because people are complaining about a content drought, but have everything half-baked.

I don't mind the wait (in fact I was a September proponent myself last year). It just clarifies that we are still functionally in Alpha, not Beta.

[George Costanza]

They need to bring back vanilla!

#MakeWoWGreatAgain

[Taeldorian]

Yes, but it clears up the confusion that some people had as to whether we were functionally in Alpha or Beta.

Well, they only really know what stage were in honestly. The alpha we're in now is way further along then the beta was for WoD when it came out, as well as other previous expansions. To be honest, they could be using alpha to flesh everything out, make class changes, etc, and then going to beta for strictly testing.

Functionally, we're in alpha, but we're way further along at this point then we were when WoD beta came around, same goes for MoP. Alpha and Beta are generally just terms used by devs, not really an indicative source of progression towards the developing process though, especially when talking to a playerbase.

[Jango-was-taken]

yea @styil we are further along than any beta to date - Mythic raid testing for WoD didn't start until august/september which was almost 3 months into the WoD beta - we're still in "Alpha" and we have all that + Suramar is pretty much completely textured (check any live stream of someone who has alpha access and watch when they fly past the zone (if they fly towards high mountain they pass right through it). IT IS COMPLETELY WITHIN REACH that they push a july release - if you have any marketing background a gigantic movie production + new content = a massive flow of both returning and new player base: it has to. I'm not saying by any means that this is what's going to happen, but from a financial standpoint it would make total sense to take advantage of this.

[Raone]

If they were in a beta he would have said "nature of beta" instead. Beta's from every previous expansion were FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR less complete then the current alpha, the only reason its called alpha is because they don't want to invite a lot of people yet. Once they change it to Beta everyone will want an invite which will cause server lag which they aren't ready for/don't want to test yet.

[styil]

If they were in a beta he would have said "nature of beta" instead.

That's from a technical standpoint, though. "Watcher called it X, so technically they're in X". However I'm looking at it from a functional standpoint.

yea @styil we are further along than any beta to date - Mythic raid testing for WoD didn't start until august/september which was almost 3 months into the WoD beta - we're still in "Alpha" and we have all that + Suramar is pretty much completely textured (check any live stream of someone who has alpha access and watch when they fly past the zone (if they fly towards high mountain they pass right through it). IT IS COMPLETELY WITHIN REACH that they push a july release - if you have any marketing background a gigantic movie production + new content = a massive flow of both returning and new player base: it has to. I'm not saying by any means that this is what's going to happen, but from a financial standpoint it would make total sense to take advantage of this.

Beta's from every previous expansion were FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR less complete then the current alpha, the only reason its called alpha is because they don't want to invite a lot of people yet. Once they change it to Beta everyone will want an invite which will cause server lag which they aren't ready for/don't want to test yet.

Sure Legion Alpha might be a little ahead of WoD EARLY beta, but this is what a Legion July release (in 3 months) would look like now:

1. All specialisations available for quite some time
2. Level cap was max (at 100) and all zones and content were available for testing for quite some time
3. Dungeon testing was available for quite some time
4. Heroic Highmaul/BRF raid testing all available. MYTHIC testing was about to begin.
5. Max level PvP testing had already started, with several Ashran iterations already implemented.
6. No new features or content added at this point
7. Pre-patch PTR in a few weeks

That was WoD 3 months away from launch. Do you really think that Legion is at that stage of the development cycle? With incomplete Order Hall Campaigns, Adventure Mode, zones, max level rewards structure and improved social features? Let alone the massive balancing and testing after that.

[Jango-was-taken]

I understand but you need to also remember that Blizzard has been doing their internal testing that has been totally disclosed from the public - I wouldn't be surprised if "beta" for legion was the shortest we've ever seen. For goodness sake, they opened alpha in november! it's been almost 6 months of alpha compared to WoD's alpha which started in april and went to june 26th? I know there are still things to be done but we can't overlook at how much has been completed now and what is also done behind the scenes.

P.S mythic testing started today which means in about 5-6 weeks or so we could have all raid testing finished, perhaps even sooner than that.

[SoulSoBreezy]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17610511407#13

When discussing the Order Hall missions system in Legion, Ion (Watcher) Hazzikostas gives us some insight into the current state of the expansion:


This indicates that, functionally, they are still in the middle of Alpha. There are still quite a few systems to flesh out before we can even consider beta at this point:
1. Order Hall Campaigns
2. Adventure Mode
3. Suramar max level zone
4. Level 110 rewards structure
5. Improved social features

And once those systems are finally implemented, there is still a lot of fine tuning to do in beta:
1. Dungeon balance (Mythic, Mythic+)
2. Raid balance (LFR, Normal, Mythic)
3. Class balance (PvE/PvP, artifacts, legendaries)
4. Max level world content testing (Suramar, Adventure Mode)
5. Social features testing
6. Bug fixing
7. Stress testing

These are still quite a while away and Watcher's post on the official forums reaffirms this. I was initially assuming an August release but after Watcher's post and seeing the above, I am leaning more towards a September release now.

Unfortunately, some have already "reviewed" Legion and passed judgement. It's also a shame that youtubers like az get their audiences frothing at the mouth with baity content.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I don't know, this Alpha seems pretty damned fleshed out in many areas...more than say, MoP Beta when I first got into that.

[Krom2040]

Did this really need a new thread? I don't think there's any dispute that Legion is "officially" in alpha? As far as I can tell, the only point of confusion is that people refuse to accept that Blizzard reps occasionally use the phrase "beta testing" to refer to the general state of pre-release alpha/beta.

[Kellorion]

.......and?

[Chickat]

We are still less than 4 months away at max until Release. Call it alpha all you want, it just means we will have a shorter beta than usual.

[Naxere]

Blizzard never learns. We're looking at another 12-14 months (if not longer) between the Hellfire Citadel release (June 23rd 2015) and the start of the next expansion.

[Bashkar]

We are still less than 4 months away at max until Release. Call it alpha all you want, it just means we will have a shorter beta than usual.

^ This

It comes up in every single Alpha v Beta thread, but we're too caught up on nomenclature. With an atypical testing and design strategy, we don't have a viable gauge for what is exactly happening. We can make reasonable assumptions with the information we've been given, but we don't actually know anything but a last possible day for release. We can assume testing will be done by then.

The raids have been tested pretty thoroughly at this point - are they just testing encounters they feel are done? or ones where they need feedback to adjust?

Class changes are starting to slow down - are they confident with what they have so far? Are there major changes coming that slow down any iterative development? Interface / QOL changes, class / spec adjustments, and the initial invasion events are really the only things that are necessary for a 7.0.1 PTR - we may be close, but the invasion stuff really hasn't been widespread or heavily tested yet. Can't presume a timeline.

Levelling content from a zone perspective seems to be pretty well set, but we're missing order hall progression - we don't know how far in development they are. Are they comparatively easy to implement? *shrug*

The next patch could enable 110 with the full stretch of max-level content. We could also just see bug fixes and a few tuning changes.

Blizzard never learns. We're looking at another 12-14 months (if not longer) between the Hellfire Citadel release (June 23rd 2015) and the start of the next expansion.

Cool, more feedback like that and they'll definitely accelerate development. We'll wind up great levelling and early endgame content, and then nothing to do for months at a time. Then complain that they're taking too long for more content.

[Tuesdays]

Blizzard probably just figured if they had low pre-sales of Legion it would be beta, and if sales were high then they wouldn't have to rely on movie to boost sales they'd call it alpha.

I rather it be in alpha, especially if garrisons 2.0 is a thing, either make it account wide daily missions, or forget about it like aerial combat.

[Stellan]

What are you talking about? What he indicates is that class hall missions and such aren't completed, and the class hall hasn't been fully fleshed out which is shit that most of us knew already (at least those on alpha). It was pretty obvious that they still have some stuff to do, it hasn't changed a thing about an august release date. It's still the same, and his post there doesn't reaffirm anything other than class halls which were JUST added to alpha, aren't fully completed yet, which was already known.

Tuning generally goes quick, as well. Depends on how they release the raids and such, but it goes by pretty fast unless anything is seriously broken.

Make the release date September and you've got it right.

[Sinndra]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17610511407#13

When discussing the Order Hall missions system in Legion, Ion (Watcher) Hazzikostas gives us some insight into the current state of the expansion:


This indicates that, functionally, they are still in the middle of Alpha. There are still quite a few systems to flesh out before we can even consider beta at this point:

~snip~

i guess thats one way to read it, i read it differently, however.

"We haven't published a full explanation of the system, because we're still working out a few of the details - that's the nature of testing."

replacing the word Alpha (or even Beta) with the word testing, makes everything become more clear. it doesnt matter what the name of the realm is called as long as the actions of testing and development happen.

this means that while im not saying June/July is imminent for release... i am saying that anytime someone uses the term Alpha to show why it cant release until the last day or even after, is wrong.


the truth of the matter is, this month is crucial for predicting a release window. and given that we are already halfway through the month, that window is getting smaller and smaller if a June/July release is possible. if the 7.0 patch isnt on the PTR within the next 3-4 weeks, late June or early July would be out. however mid to late July is still well within the window until May is over.