1. #12941
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    That's so stupid.

    First, the client has to be rebuilt, as it was written for Windows Millenium and linked with CRT 6. Also, the 1.12 client knows nothing about authenticators and new account structure. The bits of code has to be put out, coding upgraded to CRT 2012, Windows Vista+ support added, new authentication and Warden written in.

    Second, the server has to be rebuilt to integrate with new billing/account services, rebuilt with new system libraries and compiler, the code has to be updated too...

    That is a ton of work for no result.
    Well at least you put some detail into it, as some think there is just some little switch you pull and everything is ready to go.

  2. #12942
    Bloodsail Admiral Mullet Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatoss View Post
    Eh, I could see a poll being taken about as well as anything else blizzard says. Poll disagrees with my position, "Blizzard must have rigged the poll"
    Back to the New Coke analogy.

    Before New Coke was released, Coca-Cola did blind taste tests that proved over and over that people liked the taste New Coke better than Classic Coke.
    But when they replaced Classic Coke with New Coke, people revolted.

    Strange as it sounds, people have an attachment to certain products. Screw with them too much and they revolt. They demand their comfortable, old version of the product back.

  3. #12943
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    I mentioned way earlier in the thread that among F2P games (specifically MMOs), 30% seems to be the cap on conversion between free players and paying players. World of Tanks held that record back in 2011 (about a year after release), but I suspect its numbers have dropped significantly since. I can't seem to find any kind of official statistics from Wargaming on the percentage of premium accounts their games have (which would give us the best equivalent to a WoW subscription).

    So... guessing it really hard, the percentage of players from Nost who would subscribe to WoW, statistically, would be between 5 and 30. Pick whichever makes the most compelling case for you. :P
    numbers from nost are confusing if i read them right. they used a 10-day active measurement for the 150k. not having the more normal 30-day number is an issue for any such modeling fun.

    also, in this case, how do you account for players who were avoiding becoming criminals via wow private servers but would be interested in an official version? I think this situation in particular is at least somewhat unique for the genre. the potential pool of INTERESTED players may be an integer multiple of nost's active #.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuesdays View Post
    Well at least you put some detail into it, as some think there is just some little switch you pull and everything is ready to go.
    darth proposed a back-of-envelope cost structure. I think it got quickly into low 8 digits.
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  4. #12944
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    That's so stupid.

    First, the client has to be rebuilt, as it was written for Windows Millenium and linked with CRT 6. Also, the 1.12 client knows nothing about authenticators and new account structure. The bits of code has to be put out, coding upgraded to CRT 2012, Windows Vista+ support added, new authentication and Warden written in.

    Second, the server has to be rebuilt to integrate with new billing/account services, rebuilt with new system libraries and compiler, the code has to be updated too...

    That is a ton of work for no result.
    BUT BUT BUT blizzard can totally make money......

    Sometimes I think blizzard has to many customers. With too many customers you get quite a bit of assholes, idiots, and dumbasses who think they have business sense and that blizzard is lying to them.

  5. #12945
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeleteMyAccountMMOCSUX View Post
    Back to the New Coke analogy.

    Before New Coke was released, Coca-Cola did blind taste tests that proved over and over that people liked the taste New Coke better than Classic Coke.
    But when they replaced Classic Coke with New Coke, people revolted.

    Strange as it sounds, people have an attachment to certain products. Screw with them too much and they revolt. They demand their comfortable, old version of the product back.
    they never got that product back either, though. are you drawing an analogy with corn syrup and classic wow?
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  6. #12946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    I will run a poll next month describing a few different degrees of 'modernizing' of a classic servr and which (if any ) players would prefer, and I would bet a large gemignani pizza that 'authentic classic' is going to outvote the other 'yes but with modern features and tuning' type options substantially.
    I'm fairly certain we can say that judging by the input in this thread.
    And I also think you're correct with what Blizzard would do, should they go and release a "classic" realm. At the very least they would have to build in the new Battle.Net features into it - which would enable them to do other modern things, like dungeon finders etc.

    They've stated quite clearly they wouldn't be happy about the "buggy" state of the old code, so I doubt very much they'd ever release a "authentic" vanilla. It would be some sort of modern-classic-hybrid.

  7. #12947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    they never got that product back either, though. are you drawing an analogy with corn syrup and classic wow?
    Yeah they did. Coca-Cola relented 3 months after releasing New Coke, and reintroduced Classic Coke.
    New Coke was fully stopped in 2002.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

  8. #12948
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeleteMyAccountMMOCSUX View Post
    Yeah they did. Coca-Cola relented 3 months after releasing New Coke, and reintroduced Classic Coke.
    New Coke was fully stopped in 2002.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke
    changing the principal ingredient is not the same as restoring the old product. I was more than old enough then to remember this fiasco clearly. corn syrup is not sugar.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  9. #12949
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    please consider my comment above about blizzard preferring to leave classic untouched rather than get into a situation where they are told that to go with that project, it needs to be modernized and tuned for their current playerbase, which might make very, very good business sense. I can well see how the folks who actually were involved in designing wow or managing blizzard then would rather not go that route.

    The more I have thought about it, the more convinced I have become that any 'classic' project from blizzard is going to be something along the frankenstein I postulate above rather than what nost or that other place tried to do.

    I will run a poll next month describing a few different degrees of 'modernizing' of a classic servr and which (if any ) players would prefer, and I would bet a large gemignani pizza that 'authentic classic' is going to outvote the other 'yes but with modern features and tuning' type options substantially.
    I don't think Blizzard would "modernize" Classic the way you speculated. Simply because they don't have to. They already have that modernized version of Classic: that's Retail! The entire point of Classic servers, if they ever happened, would be to capitalize on a niche Retail doesn't occupy anymore, and to bring in a demographic Retail can't attract anymore. Creating Classic servers that are basically Retail with the pre-Cataclysm world and the level capped at 60 would be about as redundant as tits on a fish. That's the kind of thing that would dilute Retail's playerbase, and that's something you can bet an extra pizza Blizzard wants to avoid at all costs.

    So yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if a Classic client was implemented by Blizzard, it would feature UI improvements (AoE loot, movable frames, gear presets, etc.) and bug fixes, and possibly support for the new models and graphical options implemented since (likely all optional). The developers know what people want with Classic servers, and thankfully they seem to be close enough to the management to have the freedom to take the risks they want as long as the profits are high enough.
    Nothing ever bothers Juular.

  10. #12950
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    BUT BUT BUT blizzard can totally make money......

    Sometimes I think blizzard has to many customers. With too many customers you get quite a bit of assholes, idiots, and dumbasses who think they have business sense and that blizzard is lying to them.
    I totally agree. BTW, just throwing this question out there. Where can I find recount or something similar to recount for Vanilla WoW?

  11. #12951
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    changing the principal ingredient is not the same as restoring the old product. I was more than old enough then to remember this fiasco clearly. corn syrup is not sugar.
    Okay, take it up with wikipedia.

    "The subsequent reintroduction less than three months later of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales."

  12. #12952
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharkLazorz View Post
    I'm fairly certain we can say that judging by the input in this thread.
    And I also think you're correct with what Blizzard would do, should they go and release a "classic" realm. At the very least they would have to build in the new Battle.Net features into it - which would enable them to do other modern things, like dungeon finders etc.

    They've stated quite clearly they wouldn't be happy about the "buggy" state of the old code, so I doubt very much they'd ever release a "authentic" vanilla. It would be some sort of modern-classic-hybrid.
    right. it would be everyones worst nightmare.

    want classic servers? guess what, you get the LFD/LFR version, and whatever private server you play on now is much more likely to get legally contacted than ever before.

    dont want blizzard cutting more rayd tears to do other stuff (like this)? sorry, there went your 7.1 patch. more raids in 8.0 in 2018 though so don't worry! Why not buy an instant60 boost on our classic server and join a naxx lfr raid and kill kt a few times and get atiesh?
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  13. #12953
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by SharkLazorz View Post
    I'm fairly certain we can say that judging by the input in this thread.
    And I also think you're correct with what Blizzard would do, should they go and release a "classic" realm. At the very least they would have to build in the new Battle.Net features into it - which would enable them to do other modern things, like dungeon finders etc.

    They've stated quite clearly they wouldn't be happy about the "buggy" state of the old code, so I doubt very much they'd ever release a "authentic" vanilla. It would be some sort of modern-classic-hybrid.
    Unless they go overboard with it, I would be totally fine with this.
    Not fine with stuff like LFD, LFR, crz, multi-faction, etc. but auto loot, bnet integration, wider quest logs, better system options & other various improvements usually provided by AddOns would be okay in my book.

  14. #12954
    Quote Originally Posted by DeleteMyAccountMMOCSUX View Post
    Okay, take it up with wikipedia.

    "The subsequent reintroduction less than three months later of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales."
    Just pretend WoD is vanilla, problem solved.

  15. #12955
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeleteMyAccountMMOCSUX View Post
    Okay, take it up with wikipedia.

    "The subsequent reintroduction less than three months later of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales."
    you must be quite young, because you obviously have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    they never re-introduced coke with sugar (except kosher special bottlings), and some view the entire newcoke bizarro tale as having had the back door plan of switching the sweetener in coke. as I recall, KO was quite early to the corn sweetener scene. coke classic never tasted the same as old coke, even though it was years before I learned about the sweetener issue.
    Last edited by Deficineiron; 2016-04-12 at 06:01 AM.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  16. #12956
    been playing for about two weeks. nice players there.
    everything was good except for the shitty latency.
    idk but i kinda what it back

  17. #12957
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    Quote Originally Posted by sqviddy View Post
    Unless they go overboard with it, I would be totally fine with this.
    Not fine with stuff like LFD, LFR, crz, multi-faction, etc. but auto loot, bnet integration, wider quest logs, better system options & other various improvements usually provided by AddOns would be okay in my book.
    issue is the classic server wouldn't be for the folks on nost and those would want that kind of server, it would be for the wod customers who want fast and easy dungeons, etc, just killing the old bosses.

    activation-blizzard doesn't release games tuned like classic wow anymore, period.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  18. #12958
    Bloodsail Admiral Mullet Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    you must be quite young, because you obviously have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    they never re-introduced coke with sugar (except kosher special bottlings), and some view the entire newcoke bizarro tale as having had the back door plan of switching the sweetener in coke. as I recall, KO was quite early to the corn sweetener scene.
    I was 10 in 85. No, Coke wasn't my main source of nutrition at that time.

    But this is the data from Wikipedia. If you don't like it, go change it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

  19. #12959
    Quote Originally Posted by greednut View Post
    been playing for about two weeks. nice players there.
    everything was good except for the shitty latency.
    idk but i kinda what it back
    I can't stand lag, coming from 14.4 you'd think I wouldn't mind, but if I am at 125-150 latency on live I'm done until my isp stops sucking, or Blizzard fixes wtf ever was causing it.

    Definitely a deal breaker for me.

  20. #12960
    i dont know but things are escalating really fast.Now youre talking about cokes.
    what the actual Coke??

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