Baradin hold / VoA were more enjoyable than world bosses

[Deleted]

I soloed Baradin Hold today because i was bored and nostalgia. And I remember doing it with the guild i was in at that time. (they were terrible)

Early on in the expansion you did it with your guild, and it was a small thing to progress on and helped people get a taste for raiding.
It wasn't terrible hard, i believe you need 11k dps on average for the first boss (which my guild did not have) and you had some small mechanics. But it was fun and more social i would say than with world bosses now.

I think it would be fun to bring this back. or maybe a combination of world bosses and a baradin hold/voa like experience

[Flurryfang]

I soloed Baradin Hold today because i was bored and nostalgia. And I remember doing it with the guild i was in at that time. (they were terrible)

Early on in the expansion you did it with your guild, and it was a small thing to progress on and helped people get a taste for raiding.
It wasn't terrible hard, i believe you need 11k dps on average for the first boss (which my guild did not have) and you had some small mechanics. But it was fun and more social i would say than with world bosses now.

I think it would be fun to bring this back. or maybe a combination of world bosses and a baradin hold/voa like experience

I would not agree, that BH was better, since its Battle system was pretty wierd, but VoA was amazing. I loved the theme of the place, the ever evolving vault and the battleground system was quite enjoyable, since it used vehicles pretty good and turret fights made playing none-pvp classes much more fun.

[Ratyrel]

I soloed Baradin Hold today because i was bored and nostalgia. And I remember doing it with the guild i was in at that time. (they were terrible)

Early on in the expansion you did it with your guild, and it was a small thing to progress on and helped people get a taste for raiding.
It wasn't terrible hard, i believe you need 11k dps on average for the first boss (which my guild did not have) and you had some small mechanics. But it was fun and more social i would say than with world bosses now.

I think it would be fun to bring this back. or maybe a combination of world bosses and a baradin hold/voa like experience

I agree really. World bosses are just mindless zerg fests. Baradin Hold and Archavon both had elements of challenge and tactics the world bosses lack. They also felt more like raids, as they were not outside.

[Deleted]

I would not agree, that BH was better, since its Battle system was pretty wierd, but VoA was amazing. I loved the theme of the place, the ever evolving vault and the battleground system was quite enjoyable, since it used vehicles pretty good and turret fights made playing none-pvp classes much more fun.

I don't want the whole Pvp thing attached with it, just a general raid for some minor guild "progression" or pugging to get into raiding and a piece of loot.

[Deleted]

It gave players a good reason to fight in battles and then everyone gets together and raids. Did not even need tools to get in, it was a simple boss, and so was OS back in the day, thats why people did not give a damn about raiding because they could still do the easy one if they wanted to try it, and then find a guild to satisfy their craving.

I actually liked the one in tol barad but the actual PvP BG sucked

[Splenda]

I like both. Options are always good. I dislike how they did it in WoD, the world bosses didn't drop overly useful things and only Rukhmar is worth killing more than a couple times due to her mount.

I do like quick 1-2 boss raids like that though. Variety is always a good thing imo.

[crejack]

I don't want the whole Pvp thing attached with it, just a general raid for some minor guild "progression" or pugging to get into raiding and a piece of loot.

We have normal mode for this now.

I like both. Options are always good. I dislike how they did it in WoD, the world bosses didn't drop overly useful things and only Rukhmar is worth killing more than a couple times due to her mount.

I do like quick 1-2 boss raids like that though. Variety is always a good thing imo.

1-2 boss raid is fine, not a problem. The problem with loot on world bosses is, with 4 difficulties and such a huge differences between ilvl's it's hard to make the loot compelling for everyone. And no matter what they put on them people will bitch about it.

[Rothex]

The VoA/BH bosses actually dropped useful gear, like tier sets, which was very desirable for a guild and many players. That's probably why they held a much longer interest and expansion value. This meant that they had to make the mechanics more interesting and punishing, rather than a boring zerg fest.

The current world bosses only drop gear that's relevant for a very short period of time, and is often replaced by raiding gear in the first raid tier. Unless those world bosses drop a mount, there's very little incentive to ever do them. Just look at Tarlna and Drov, they were done for a couple months then completely abandoned for the rest of WoD; a complete waste tbh. The only reason people still do Rukhmar and the MoP world bosses are for the mounts.

[Kaleredar]

I agree. First and foremost, it was a lot easier than making people fly (or in WoD's case, run) halfway across the continent to take down a world boss, because you had convenient summoning stones AND portals.

Second, yes, they were far more interesting. They were cool environments and the bosses in both VOA and BH were fun. Plus, I feel like Baradin Hold's artset was really cool and tragically underutilized.


Third... Yeah, it encouraged players to engage in world PvP and do things they might not normally do. If Blizzard wanted to make Ashran a success (something they placed a HUGE amount of focus in on WoD's development) they should have put in a BH/VOA-type raid you could "win" access to for your faction.

I mean Tol Barad was a pain in the ass and nowhere near as amazing as wintergrasp and people still did it for access to the raid. I'm sure it would have helped Ashran quite a deal.

[Flurryfang]

I don't want the whole Pvp thing attached with it, just a general raid for some minor guild "progression" or pugging to get into raiding and a piece of loot.

You might aswell be multitasking But a VoA might aswell work without the attached PvP, i just thought it worked alright at that time

[Deleted]

We need more Oondastas, i had a blast timing my defensives for the beam and watching everyone around me die xD

[Deleted]

We have normal mode for this now.




1-2 boss raid is fine, not a problem. The problem with loot on world bosses is, with 4 difficulties and such a huge differences between ilvl's it's hard to make the loot compelling for everyone. And no matter what they put on them people will bitch about it.

a normal raid is still different, people expect you to have progression in the raid and is not a "side" raid. BH/VoA were conscidered outside of progression and were just some outside raid time fun or loot for guilds and pugs.

Also i believe they shouldn't add lfr, or other difficulties, just 1 mode with an extra boss added every tier or something, but add some actual basic tactics.
Conceptually it is the same as a world boss, but more room to add a challenge and communication even

[Allenseiei]

For me it was a boring and mandatory piece of content.
You were forced to go there to get a chance at tier but it was just a LFR level raid boss waiting for you every single week. Killing the bosses there 30-40 times in WotLK because there was nothing to do in that expansion either, didn't make it better in any way.
Wintergrasp was a lag fest that the only thing it made it different from ashran was that you had siege vehicles.

[Niwes]

I like both. Options are always good. I dislike how they did it in WoD, the world bosses didn't drop overly useful things and only Rukhmar is worth killing more than a couple times due to her mount.

I do like quick 1-2 boss raids like that though. Variety is always a good thing imo.

see it the same way. small things like that was what the old expansions let feel way more variable and fresh instead the boring repeat loop wod became.

[MrExcelion]

Guild didn't do BH, so I found myself pugging it usually. BH ninjaing was rather rampant and there countless forum debates about MS > OS at the time and how Blizzard didn't recognize it as a loot system

But yeah, I didn't like how Tarla and Drov played out either, wish their rewards had been updated somehow

[Deleted]

For me it was a boring and mandatory piece of content.
You were forced to go there to get a chance at tier but it was just a LFR level raid boss waiting for you every single week. Killing the bosses there 30-40 times in WotLK because there was nothing to do in that expansion either, didn't make it better in any way.
Wintergrasp was a lag fest that the only thing it made it different from ashran was that you had siege vehicles.

Same for World bosses then, so a change like this shouldn't change it for you either way

Guild didn't do BH, so I found myself pugging it usually. BH ninjaing was rather rampant and there countless forum debates about MS > OS at the time and how Blizzard didn't recognize it as a loot system

But yeah, I didn't like how Tarla and Drov played out either, wish their rewards had been updated somehow

it would just have personal loot, should remove that issue

[Raugnaut]

World Bosses are allright.

But we REALLY need those introductory raids back, that drops tier. One of the problems in WoD, you couldn't get tier if you weren't capable of raiding.

[Celarent]

In especially early Wrath, Wintergrasp and VoA were big community events.

Pre-3.2, Wintergrasp was free-entry, so 15 minutes before battle time a player would start up a raid and advertise in Trade and General. Because players entered the zone through a portal, a crowd of characters would gather, milling and fooling around while they waited. Wintergrasp itself was large and varied enough for players to choose what they wanted to do.

Vault of Archavon's raid size limit allowed more specific abilities, and the difficulty level allowed most groups to succeed at the same time standout players could feel like they'd carried. Being server-only familiar faces popped up. As noted above, rewards were actually relevant, so you'd take as manu alts as you could on, say, a Saturday, whenever your faction held the vault.

Just great experiences.

[Allenseiei]

Same for World bosses then, so a change like this shouldn't change it for you either way



it would just have personal loot, should remove that issue

I didnt have to do world bosses, so as long as tier isn't loot or its just normal quality gear, it'll save me from doing them.

[Celarent]

"Boo-hoo, Wintergrasp was laggy" is exactly the kind myopic advice Blizzard has been listening to to progressively destroy its game. Who cares? It was fun. Live a little.