The Legion table - Ion's additional response

[MoanaLisa]

Well, if they were showing it to be something it is not, that isn't right.

That said, hard not to be cool about something when it feels like your worst fears were just realized. I've been playing WoD just to get prepped for Legion and I cannot tell you how much I hate it. It is most definitely a chore, just about every aspect of it... that said I want a decent amount of gold and progression amassed so that I can have a better time in Legion.

Well, like he said, they are writing the game for a lot of people with varying interests. If three million people hated garrison missions and a couple of million are not overly fussed about them, liked them for the gold they gave or for whatever reason enjoyed them, there's nothing wrong with cutting them back, reshaping them, etc. and perhaps make them more relevant to actually doing something. It's tiring to hear people go on as if the game should be designed with only themselves in mind. Most of the responses so far haven't even really qualified as feedback. "I hated them in Warlords so I know I will hate them however much they've been changed in Legion."

I'm perfectly content to wait and see what's up with them once all the pieces are there. And if they aren't required for anything, then that's great too. The whole point many of us have been making for a while is that nothing in the game should be mandatory to get a sense of character progression. That includes mission tables; it even includes raiding. I'm not interested in having the best gear in the game for nothing. As well, I'm not interested in getting to end game and finding a wall barring any further progression unless I raid either. More dungeons are good, harder dungeons are good. The new mythic dungeon system looks great. Let's strive to let them know what's working for us and how it can be applied elsewhere rather than some stupid visceral response to continue to remove stuff from the game until there's nothing left.

[Saeran]

Like you, he's arguing whether people have a right to be angry in the first place which is stupid, they do.

No one should be angry about a game, passionate yes, but not angry.

The fact that I have to explain this and lay it out disturbs me quite a bit too.

[Blur4stuff]

we now have more proof that this mission table is a tiny part of legion and not required

so, when are those freaking out and ranting going to apologize? are you going to admit your anger was premature and unwarranted?

i'm guessing no, but let's find out.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Just a bunch more bullshit. Stop reassuring us that we want something we don't want. Jesus Christ! Fuck these garrison-esque missions and give us missions that we actually go do ourselves! Like with our own character! Like we have to mash the buttons and do the movements! Dropping a square into another square and pressing go is not fun! How hard is this that he has to keep making posts to justify this stupidity!

Well fucking said!

[KrazyK923]

we now have more proof that this mission table is a tiny part of legion and not required

so, when are those freaking out and ranting going to apologize? are you going to admit your anger was premature and unwarranted?

i'm guessing no, but let's find out.

Oh they're going to just double down and proclaim Blizzard is deceiving us.

Because they have become literal conspiracy nuts.

Just wait for heelvscrybabyface or bellular to put out a video tomorrow.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

No one should be angry about a game, passionate yes, but not angry.

The fact that I have to explain this and lay it out disturbs me quite a bit too.

...You do realize those two things often run parallel right? One is often the consequence of the other.

Blocked.

[callipygoustp]

The real issue that people should be fuming about is the shear amount of Dungeon crawling and mob killing that it will take to max a artifact.

...wtf....

[Mirishka]

Just a bunch more bullshit. Stop reassuring us that we want something we don't want. Jesus Christ! Fuck these garrison-esque missions and give us missions that we actually go do ourselves! Like with our own character! Like we have to mash the buttons and do the movements! Dropping a square into another square and pressing go is not fun! How hard is this that he has to keep making posts to justify this stupidity!

If that's what you took from him post, you are incredibly dense.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Well, like he said, they are writing the game for a lot of people with varying interests. If three million people hated garrison missions and a couple of million are not overly fussed about them, liked them for the gold they gave or for whatever reason enjoyed them, there's nothing wrong with cutting them back, reshaping them, etc. and perhaps make them more relevant to actually doing something. It's tiring to hear people go on as if the game should be designed with only themselves in mind. Most of the responses so far haven't even really qualified as feedback. "I hated them in Warlords so I know I will hate them however much they've been changed in Legion."

I'm perfectly content to wait and see what's up with them once all the pieces are there. And if they aren't required for anything, then that's great too. The whole point many of us have been making for a while is that nothing in the game should be mandatory to get a sense of character progression. That includes mission tables; it even includes raiding. I'm not interested in having the best gear in the game for nothing. As well, I'm not interested in getting to end game and finding a wall barring any further progression unless I raid either. More dungeons are good, harder dungeons are good. The new mythic dungeon system looks great. Let's strive to let them know what's working for us and how it can be applied elsewhere rather than some stupid visceral response to continue to remove stuff from the game until there's nothing left.

...and so the wheel keeps on turning. More petty bullshit detracting from what the game is meant to be. On and on we fucking go. When we stop, nobody knows.

Got one guy defending it while simultaneously lamenting about what tends to make an MMORPG just that being reintroduced back into Legion in some parts. You can't fucking win. These people don't want an MMORPG anymore. I couldn't even begin to imagine what they want.

[Deleted]

Being factual would be:

- There is TWO systems tied to the Class Hall Orders, the Command Table for rewards and lore, the Order Upgrades for follower/army/player buffs AND the third relic.
- They are independent of each other, both need order resources that we get from all over the world.

That's it.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

The garrison table is like farmville and other offline progression facebook apps. Why the FUCK do we need this in an mmorpg, I'm sorry for my fruity language but this has -really pissed me for the entire fact that they said they KNOW that this feature was bad but they want to risk it and implent it again and make it far worse?! You have tried this two times already! The shipyard was FAR worse than the garrison table! Some of these missions are four fucking days long and are the source of the order hall campaign content!

[KrazyK923]

Being factual would be:

- There is TWO systems tied to the Class Hall Orders, the Command Table for rewards and lore, the Order Upgrades for follower/army/player buffs AND the third relic.
- They are independent of each other, both need order resources that we get from all over the world.

That's it.

Stop being so goddamn objective.

WE NEED TO ALL FREAK OUT.

BLIZZARFD IS LYAGING TO US GUYS THEY ARE DOING IT FOR BECAUSE THEY WANT OUR MONEY AND ARE LYING.
AHHHHHHH

[Redroniksre]

Well, like he said, they are writing the game for a lot of people with varying interests. If three million people hated garrison missions and a couple of million are not overly fussed about them, liked them for the gold they gave or for whatever reason enjoyed them, there's nothing wrong with cutting them back, reshaping them, etc. and perhaps make them more relevant to actually doing something. It's tiring to hear people go on as if the game should be designed with only themselves in mind. Most of the responses so far haven't even really qualified as feedback. "I hated them in Warlords so I know I will hate them however much they've been changed in Legion."

I'm perfectly content to wait and see what's up with them once all the pieces are there. And if they aren't required for anything, then that's great too. The whole point many of us have been making for a while is that nothing in the game should be mandatory to get a sense of character progression. That includes mission tables; it even includes raiding. I'm not interested in having the best gear in the game for nothing. As well, I'm not interested in getting to end game and finding a wall barring any further progression unless I raid either. More dungeons are good, harder dungeons are good. The new mythic dungeon system looks great. Let's strive to let them know what's working for us and how it can be applied elsewhere rather than some stupid visceral response to continue to remove stuff from the game until there's nothing left.

Why haven't we gotten married yet? Should i figure out a date?

[SoulSoBreezy]

So if their feedback can improve the feature, why is everyone getting so salty?

Instead of responding to every single piece of criticism with words to the effect of "its alpha calm down" start a constructive conversation. Ion is actually setting the example in that regard, to a certain extent. Its people on this forum that aren't.

"I think tying the other spec's artifacts behind missions is dumb. You're blocking the usefulness of a spec behind a table mission that can fail. This doesn't make sense."

That's *my* feedback.

It's more useful to take concerns and break them down into digestible components so the devs can know what's going on. Hearing "it's trash" doesn't translate into anything actionable.
It's important to point out that the game is still largely built by a design team, not the players. Legion will have a mission table by design. The useful player feedback translated into using the legion table as a supplement to the outdoor experience, and not a self contained one.

[Deleted]

Stop being so goddamn objective.

WE NEED TO ALL FREAK OUT.

BLIZZARFD IS LYAGING TO US GUYS THEY ARE DOING IT FOR BECAUSE THEY WANT OUR MONEY AND ARE LYING.
AHHHHHHH

I bet Ion is reading all these threats, watching us while he feeds us lies only for legion to come out and see our faces when we come to the realization he deceived us. /s

That's *my* feedback.

It's more useful to take concerns and break them down into digestible components so the devs can know what's going on. Hearing "it's trash" doesn't translate into anything actionable.
It's important to point out that the game is still largely built by a design team, not the players. Legion will have a mission table by design. The useful player feedback translated into using the legion table as a supplement to the outdoor experience, and not a self contained one.

I'm honestly not sure why not more people give actual feedback like that, feedback is supposed to steer the direction by giving reasons why. not try to make them do a 180 because you don't like it.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Its silly how you're mocking people giving constructive criticism.

[Wallmaker Yahzarah]

The third relic slot is out of the equation, because it is going to be added LATER in the expansion ANYWAYS.

[Saeran]

That's *my* feedback.

It's more useful to take concerns and break them down into digestible components so the devs can know what's going on. Hearing "it's trash" doesn't translate into anything actionable.
It's important to point out that the game is still largely built by a design team, not the players. Legion will have a mission table by design. The useful player feedback translated into using the legion table as a supplement to the outdoor experience, and not a self contained one.

Just watched some of your videos and I like and subscribed.

[KrazyK923]

Its silly how you're mocking people giving constructive criticism.

People lying about facts and drumming up anger and hatred to get views isn't constructive criticism.

Oh shit, wait, it's you.

Nevermind.

[TheTaurenOrc]

Being factual would be:

- There is TWO systems tied to the Class Hall Orders, the Command Table for rewards and lore, the Order Upgrades for follower/army/player buffs AND the third relic.
- They are independent of each other, both need order resources that we get from all over the world.

That's it.

Stop being so goddamn objective.

WE NEED TO ALL FREAK OUT.

BLIZZARFD IS LYAGING TO US GUYS THEY ARE DOING IT FOR BECAUSE THEY WANT OUR MONEY AND ARE LYING.
AHHHHHHH

You both do realize you have to use the command table to level up your Order Hall and access the Third Relic right?

Now whos being factual?

http://www.wowhead.com/news=252294/h...campaign-works

Seriously are you guys even in the alpha or reading / watching any of the feedback!?