Why CAN'T people enjoy old content?

[DeltrusDisc]

In sense of WoW, if the player is veteran than older content is something that they did a lot of times already and it may seem a good idea to go back and try it again, than you realize there is not much to explore, there is no reward at all and also the toolset of your character totally changed and it won't even work like it did back in the days when it was actual content.
If the player is not veteran, than older content won't be boring because of the repeated visits in the past, but the actual realization of the content will be obsolete. Current mechanisms might be more complex and interesting, graphic is way better, and also they won't get any reward.
While there is a little interest in going back, a lot of facts goes against enjoing it like a new content.

Yeah, no.

I am a veteran and guess what? I'm enjoying it because I simply enjoyed HOW the game played back then. It does not matter if I've had the rewards before - I enjoyed them then, I enjoy them now.

People like you are exactly who I am talking about - and your logic is pathetic, if I'm totally honest.

[Stormspellz]

Haven't seen anything even close to resembling 'you're not allowed to enjoy old content.'

this is what i'm thinking, not sure what this long winded rant is about.

[DeltrusDisc]

OP the games you listed above are very different from WoW. Those games are single titles that don't have living, breathing, and continuing stories. Ocarina of Time is just Ocarina of Time. FFVII is JUST FFVII. WoW is an MMORPG with a living and breathing world. As far as I knew when I started playing late vanilla that yes, it was going to change over time with expansion packs. I anticipated that.

And AFAIK, most of the old content is still in game. They haven't removed it.

Every Vanilla zone was updated and changed. I played through the questlines in all the zones old and most of them new, I preferred the old. It felt less... silly? Too many vehicles and such in Cataclysm-revamp. Did not care for that.

Also, the WAY I enjoyed the game back then, is long gone. There are no talent trees. Some abilities are entirely gone. I am not at level for many old dungeons/raids I loved more than newer dungeons/raids and Blizzard has yet to implement a strong level-adjusting system like what Rift had.

[Stormspellz]

Every Vanilla zone was updated and changed. I played through the questlines in all the zones old and most of them new, I preferred the old. It felt less... silly? Too many vehicles and such in Cataclysm-revamp. Did not care for that.

Also, the WAY I enjoyed the game back then, is long gone. There are no talent trees. Some abilities are entirely gone. I am not at level for many old dungeons/raids I loved more than newer dungeons/raids and Blizzard has yet to implement a strong level-adjusting system like what Rift had.

after playing nos, I can tell you the old quests really sucked hard, far to much bouncing around the world in the middle of a quest chain for little reward, as ally running up and down stranglethorn is one thing, but going from stranglethorn to arathi to desolace, back to stv then end up in arathi. sucked.

that may be your thing, but it aint mine.

[jeanericuser001]

I do the old content as some times blizzard reuses ideas from older fights in new fights. If I am uncertain how to deal with a raid situation I use a specific boss with a similar fight mechanic as a practice. The end result helps me to improve so when I do that fight again I perform better. I also use these old content adventures as opportunities to find unique transmog items. These transmogs sell well on the auction house and I make a little extra dough on the side besides to gold from vendoring some of the useless gear. Then there is the unique recipes. Old school enchants are still in high demand from time to time. Selling them at a decent price can also net a pretty penny or two. It all adds in the end.

[DeltrusDisc]

Why do people expect Blizzard to have legacy servers? Why would they have servers for old expansions, some people want TBC, some want WOTLK, some want Vanilla...its endless, WoW has been in decline for a while now, so hey, lets just pool our resources into maintaining old servers. No, WoW is an mmo that grows and develops over time, people need to accept that.

Would you not rather they just made the current end game good again?

If they could make the current game (not JUST end game) good again, I'd come back. However, out of the last 3 expansions, only one has felt any bit decent. That being, oddly enough, MoP. TBC and WotLK? They had something going great. They fucked up. I don't have much faith in them to fix it when the game is this old. They've started down a path I'm not sure they want to or are willing to leave.

And yeah, an MMO grows and develops. Sure, it's developed into a new game, but instead of growth it's horribly shrunk, to the point of them not releasing subscription numbers anymore. First time in YEARS, if not OVER A DECADE.

Does that not mean shit to you?

[DeltrusDisc]

That is completely beside the point.
Blizzard offers a service, the ability to play and enjoy whatever content they are offering, for 15 a month. They are welcome to change leveling, zones, dungeons, whatever. It's their content. They own it. It's your choice to pay for the content they are offering you, whatever that may be. Or don't.

What you can't do, is play content that they have created and are not offering, for free. And you can't pay for that content either. Because blizzard says so.


Cause it's their content.

It's a cut and dry case. Black and white.

Sorry, it's not technically free. I DID buy the original game, bought TBC, bought the Wrath, Cata, MoP, and WoD collector editions.

I am not allowed to enjoy the older renditions? I find that silly. I know it's Blizzard's game, but at some point they have to admit the game has changed so much since the early versions, especially, that it's essentially another game (Cataclysm pretty much cemented that) and should be treated as such. Blizzard has gotten a TON of money from me and many others, I think we should be able to play on private servers that host the old content if Blizzard is not willing to host the old content themselves.

[Heladys]

It's not that they can't, it's that wanting to doesn't give them license to, nor any form of moral authority for wanting to.

[DeltrusDisc]

But like, theres multiple expansions, what expansion would you expect the servers to focus on? all of them or only the ones you want? Maybe you should create a game thats successful for 10 years, see if you can make it work.

Oh, which fallacy is this? I never said I could do that and that I just expect Blizzard to do it. I said I'd be willing to come back, pay the FULL subscription fee to play on Blizzard servers.

Come down from your high horse and join the actual conversation.

[taliey]

this is what i'm thinking, not sure what this long winded rant is about.

I think his response to my post was a misunderstanding of can't and won't.

[xChurch]

Sorry, it's not technically free. I DID buy the original game, bought TBC, bought the Wrath, Cata, MoP, and WoD collector editions.

I am not allowed to enjoy the older renditions? I find that silly. I know it's Blizzard's game, but at some point they have to admit the game has changed so much since the early versions, especially, that it's essentially another game (Cataclysm pretty much cemented that) and should be treated as such. Blizzard has gotten a TON of money from me and many others, I think we should be able to play on private servers that host the old content if Blizzard is not willing to host the old content themselves.

MMOs change, it's kinda the whole point. Were you unclear about what an MMO entailed when you bought it? The reason so much has changed is because people wanted it.

[DeltrusDisc]

this is what i'm thinking, not sure what this long winded rant is about.

I've made it pretty clear on page one what this was about.

It's people who, because they PERSONALLY don't like older content, think others shouldn't be able to and say shit like "it's just nostalgia. You won't be happy. Oh, take the rose-tinted glasses off."

Guess what? I've played on Wrath private servers for the past few years and had tons and tons of fun. I've made new memories in the last expansion I thoroughly enjoyed. I've met new people. I've had and continue having a fun time.

But it's nostalgia, isn't it?

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No, those responses are usually to those who insist that somehow Vanilla is superior just because.

Most people won't deny you that you won't enjoy it for some time. It's the argument that what Vanilla had to offer is somehow superior to what we have now.

Yeah, personally, I'm not in the Vanilla debate.

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But again, what expansions do you expect them to be running? and after WoD, should they also have separate expansions for WoD? I am sure some people enjoy WoD.

Honestly? They could start out hosting all of the expansions and see how they work out. See which ones have the highest population, see how sustainable it is, and go from there.

I don't expect the community that wants Cata, MoP, and soon enough, WoD servers, will be big enough to warrant it, however. Vanilla through Wrath? Definitely. It's a version of WoW that simply does not exist in the retail version anymore.

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I think his response to my post was a misunderstanding of can't and won't.

I for one know that I and many others can and do enjoy Wrath, however.

[Rothg]

Sorry, it's not technically free. I DID buy the original game, bought TBC, bought the Wrath, Cata, MoP, and WoD collector editions.

I am not allowed to enjoy the older renditions? I find that silly. I know it's Blizzard's game, but at some point they have to admit the game has changed so much since the early versions, especially, that it's essentially another game (Cataclysm pretty much cemented that) and should be treated as such. Blizzard has gotten a TON of money from me and many others, I think we should be able to play on private servers that host the old content if Blizzard is not willing to host the old content themselves.

Maybe I agree with you, maybe I'd like to play older versions of Blizzard games. But that is simply not how it works. When you paid $40(Or however much Vanilla was, I started in TBC) You did not buy >everything< in vanilla. You simply purchased the option to have the ability to pay 15 a month for the content they were offering. That is the deal. You never own any of the content. This is such a black and white case. If you're arguing that they should change their stance on this, then that is one thing. If you're arguing that whatever private servers are doing is in any way correct, then you're wrong.

[DeltrusDisc]

I do the old content as some times blizzard reuses ideas from older fights in new fights. If I am uncertain how to deal with a raid situation I use a specific boss with a similar fight mechanic as a practice. The end result helps me to improve so when I do that fight again I perform better. I also use these old content adventures as opportunities to find unique transmog items. These transmogs sell well on the auction house and I make a little extra dough on the side besides to gold from vendoring some of the useless gear. Then there is the unique recipes. Old school enchants are still in high demand from time to time. Selling them at a decent price can also net a pretty penny or two. It all adds in the end.

This adds nothing to the discussion. Steamrolling old content =/= experiencing it as it was meant to be.

[Doomchicken]

Personally I think there's healthy nostalgia and unhealthy nostalgia. Healthy nostalgia is where you can revisit a game once in a blue moon and enjoy it for what it was while recognizing any flaws it may have in sound/graphics/pacing.

Unhealthy nostalgia is when you like something and decide that it's so superior you have to obsess over it to the point you can't move on and have to "remind" (shitpost) people all over the internet about how great it is while ignoring any and all criticism, usually to the point of throwing childish insults.

[DeltrusDisc]

If you honestly think they have the resources to do that, I think you are mistaken. Im sure they could, if they really wanted, but that would mean less development in going forward and more going backwards.

A friend of mine who understands this well and is pretty opposed to Blizzard doing this, explained about how the hardware is all gone, the best Blizzard could easily do, is emulate it.

I'm fine with them emulating it. And Blizzard has more resources than I think you realize... have you looked at their earnings reports? They're one of THE most successful development studios out there, with the ability to ask Activision for help, if for some weird reason they actually needed it.

It would not mean going backwards, hardly at all, and they would leave the entire development team on live. Again, old versions of the game are already developed, coded, all they need is to be hosted. FFS, I host a Minecraft server on my old computer! Sure, that's not the same as WoW, but still, the files for emulation are out there. A company like Blizzard most definitely can at least do that.

[BreakerOfWills]

Of course you can enjoy old content, however dont expect people to applaud you for your entitlement about wanting a separate server for it, or pretend it doesnt make you the sort of moron who can't enjoy something unless everyone else is forced to do the same thing. The argument especially falls apart when it comes to BC/WotLK

So to recap, you can enjoy anything you want, but no you arent right that it's the best thing ever, you're just pretending nostalgia = quality.

If all the people who were wanking off over old content would actually participate in the game instead of whining about not having enough content and wanting to play a version of the game with even less content this game wouldnt be in as sad a place as it is in now.

But alas, the entitled hordes have run this glorious machine into the ground. As everyone's always said, aint nothing gonna kill WoW but it's shitty playerbase.

[DeltrusDisc]

Personally I think there's healthy nostalgia and unhealthy nostalgia. Healthy nostalgia is where you can revisit a game once in a blue moon and enjoy it for what it was while recognizing any flaws it may have in sound/graphics/pacing.

Unhealthy nostalgia is when you like something and decide that it's so superior you have to obsess over it to the point you can't move on and have to "remind" (shitpost) people all over the internet about how great it is while ignoring any and all criticism, usually to the point of throwing childish insults.

Are you suggesting I or anyone in this thread has this unhealthy nostalgia? I never said Wrath or any of the WoW expansions are perfect. I recognize they all have flaws, I just have one expansion I like the most, with a second behind it. (Wrath and TBC). Simple as that. I enjoy playing them. I also have been enjoying playing Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn - however sometimes FF is a little too... silly(?) for me. Sometimes I would rather play Wrath. Or TBC. So, I do. Lately I've been playing more Wrath than anything else. I've been having fun, making new memories, etc. I'm not reliving anything. I'm playing the game again with an entirely new group of people and character.

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So why do you think they aren't doing it?

I think someone earlier made a brilliant post: Blizzard would essentially be admitting that their game isn't what it once was. I can understand that's a tough tough pill to swallow. Personally? I said it before, I'll say it again, I'd be happy to subscribe at the full price. I would enjoy playing on their servers again as I enjoy playing on private servers now.

[Doomchicken]

Are you suggesting I or anyone in this thread has this unhealthy nostalgia? I never said Wrath or any of the WoW expansions are perfect. I recognize they all have flaws, I just have one expansion I like the most, with a second behind it. (Wrath and TBC). Simple as that. I enjoy playing them. I also have been enjoying playing Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn - however sometimes FF is a little too... silly(?) for me. Sometimes I would rather play Wrath. Or TBC. So, I do. Lately I've been playing more Wrath than anything else. I've been having fun, making new memories, etc. I'm not reliving anything. I'm playing the game again with an entirely new group of people and character.

If I was suggesting it I would of said names or games. I did a broad general stroke to avoid starting yet another shitposting contest because I feel it applies to all games, not just one.

[anon5123]

"This game is shit it has no content, we want legacy servers that give us the same content we had 10 years ago that also won't gain any new content"

The contradiction is amazing.

The problem is that retail content is ridiculously easy and you can blow through it in no time at all.

You can go from fresh 100 to clearing normal mode HFC in 2 weeks, tops. At least, that's how long it took me when I played back in the fall. I hit 100 on a Monk and in only 10 days or so, I had gotten up to 685 ilvl and was raiding normal HFC.

With vanilla for example, leveling takes a long time to do and is a journey in itself. And then once you hit max level, you've got a lot of dungeons to run, a lot of them, before any pug will even let you into a raid. Farming BRD, then farming Dire Maul and Stratholme for all those nice drops, then doing some UBRS runs...no badges, no currency, just running dungeons and hoping the gear you need drops. No easymode faceroll LFR bullshit, just one difficulty with one raid size. No raid gear from doing quests, either. You really need to put time and effort into gearing yourself before anyone will invite you to a ZG or MC run.

Some might say that this kind of system is just a boring time sink designed to make you play the game longer, but when the game is fun and enjoyable and I have a good time socializing with people while I play...I really don't care if it's a time sink.

Retail's problem is not "no content", its problem is "content is way too easy and is cleared way too fast".

One of the best things about vanilla was the community. Playing solo was doable, but things took more time and there wasn't much reason to rush because of the sheer amount of time things took. That meant more people stopped to talk, help out etc... That experience doesn't really exist in WoW today because of how much the game and as a result the community have changed.

Yes, the community and socialization is what I miss about WoW. Playing on Nostalrius, this was the absolute, #1 biggest thing I noticed. People actually socializing. Leveling zones being full of people. Grouping up for quests. Having fun shitposting in general chat while questing. Spamming LFG for groups in the world chat.

Modern WoW has just about completely killed off socialization, in the name of convenience. Just about all questing can easily be done solo. Dungeon groups are formed for you, and they're all retardedly easy, so no communication is required. You level so fast that you can only do like half the quests in a zone before you're high enough level for the next zone. Etc. etc.

Vanilla/BC were just a much more social experience. With cross-realm LFD and cross-realm raids, server community does not exist anymore, and WoW feels less like an online world, and more like a lobby game.