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  1. #21
    The real interesting question is: If Blizzard could create a new MMO from scratch.. what would that MMO look like?

  2. #22
    yeh maybe blizz should , i always loved the retro heroes of the storm but then do dungeons and stuff and play like that and gear up and collect items for legendaries , make a heroes of the storm, wow game , i would love that

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    These systems are not the reason why WoW's Community is shit. There is many MMO's that use systems equal to or alike these and has a fine Community.

    The problem with WoW's community is the community itself. Its not blizzard, Its not some QoL feature and if you shutdown WoW tomorrow and moved everyone to a MMO by blizzard it would still have the same amount of asshats. The communtiy was shit in alot of places in TBC and Wrath and its shit in alot of places now. This isn't anything new and in truth it mirrors alot of the gaming community as a whole. People are just immature picks and sadly you see those the most.

    Its not the tools fault its the people who use the tool.
    Exactly people act like using LFR and LFG are the only options when wanting to do group content, you still have guild and trade chat as far better options but people wont put the effort it into using them.

    All blizzard did was help us save time finding groups for most of the easier content but people then act like assholes in it because they don't have to worry about giving themselves a bad rep on their server since it's cross realm and the LFG doesn't care if you are a douchebag, this isn't Blizzards fault but the communities fault.

  4. #24
    Deleted
    No company is going to run 2 AAA MMO. Why would you compete with yourself?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    These systems are not the reason why WoW's Community is shit. There is many MMO's that use systems equal to or alike these and has a fine Community.

    The problem with WoW's community is the community itself. Its not blizzard, Its not some QoL feature and if you shutdown WoW tomorrow and moved everyone to a MMO by blizzard it would still have the same amount of asshats. The communtiy was shit in alot of places in TBC and Wrath and its shit in alot of places now. This isn't anything new and in truth it mirrors alot of the gaming community as a whole. People are just immature picks and sadly you see those the most.

    Its not the tools fault its the people who use the tool.


    Actually they are part of the reason, back in vanilla it was very time consuming to level a new character and there was no other way to start over. You couldn't transfer, you had to start again at level 1, and you could only play with the people on your server. This made your reputation with those you encountered matter. If you were an asshat a few times, ninja looted once, or were just a prick in general, everyone knew about it. Sure there were still a few out there but there was a much stronger incentive within the game to work with others and not be an ass to everyone. Most of that incentive is gone now as you can find a new group anytime with random people you've never met before and will never see again.

  6. #26
    I don't think they have the confidence for it. It will be compared to WoW, and so many have tried to do WoW better. They also tried it with Titan but had to scrap it. And of course they have discovered they can make money hand over fist with cheap games like hearthstone. And in any case, whenever they do decide it is time for a new MMO, it will be many many years before we get to play it. Not sure how many of us will still be interested in starting a whole new MMO years from now.

  7. #27
    Deleted
    They started that, then they abandoned it and split it up into Destiny and Overwatch.

  8. #28
    I honestly feel like the days of the MMO are on its last legs . I grew up playing wow and have tried other MMO's to fill that void but they do not do it justice . Its hard to create a game nowadays without getting instant hate .. Most companies are on the MOBA bandwagon and that is turning toxic quick . I had a lot of hope for wildstar and it failed out pretty quickly . It is a huge investment and a huge chance for failure to make an MMO in todays market. As for the comments about the game / community killing wow .. That is almost every game nowadays . People just didnt randomly become anti social or jerks on the internet . I played vanilla on magtheridon and raided back in the day and I dont remember people going out of their way to help others . Over time its become the childish thing to troll people and even outside of games to make people angry . Stuff like that is what kills the community because of the gaining hatred for each other over the internet.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenderxx View Post
    The real interesting question is: If Blizzard could create a new MMO from scratch.. what would that MMO look like?
    Overwatch .

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by vradar View Post
    Exactly people act like using LFR and LFG are the only options when wanting to do group content, you still have guild and trade chat as far better options but people wont put the effort it into using them.

    All blizzard did was help us save time finding groups for most of the easier content but people then act like assholes in it because they don't have to worry about giving themselves a bad rep on their server since it's cross realm and the LFG doesn't care if you are a douchebag, this isn't Blizzards fault but the communities fault.


    Have you tried to use trade chat to form a group? I have and did often in WoD and I did on Nost. It was far easier to put a group together on Nost and very difficult in WoD. When you put in a feature like LFD or LFR people just use that and don't even bother to look at chats, and the fact that its much more difficult to form groups this way now is very discouraging to people like me who still try to do it. Sure I've had some success with it but its minimal and nothing compared to how it was in vanilla. You can blame this on the community if you want but you yourself state the reasons the game has created a toxic community and these features at least in some way helped that along.

    I would agree that the crossrealm part of LFD and LFR has contributed more to the toxic community. A realm based LFD would work better at least, but having formed my own groups and used LFD/LFR for years with both systems I have to say that there is little difference in the time needed to form a group and I have waited longer in queues for things as a dps since the start of LFD/LFR than I ever did trying to form my own groups. I'd actually argue against the system in terms of convenience and efficiency, I'd say the players are better at forming their own groups than the system.
    Last edited by feellucky; 2016-04-13 at 02:11 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by orderschvank View Post
    I mean, I am a supporter of playing vanilla, but i understand that the economic hurdles for it atm are just that, hurdles. maybe you can make the jump, maybe not, maybe you hit the first hurdle but succeed over the rest or whatever.

    Anyway, I dont care what format its in, but I just want an actual MMO COMMUNITY.

    Vanilla, not specifically nost(not trying to make this about nost or legacy servers, just mentioning them), but back when i played vanilla. it had great community. the community was great all the way through most of WotLK. it started its decline with the introduction of LFG, then LFR. I stopped playing before WOD came out and from what i hear or see wow has pretty much turned into a single player game.

    Also I completely understand that not everything in vanilla was all so perfect as people claimed it to be, it had plenty of problems, the suicide rate for people leveling warriors was high, depression for people trying to play ret pallies or boomkins were at dangerous levels. finally finding your 5th person for stratholm but their in silithus with a CDd hearth and your group doesnt have a warlock..PvP balance was perfect tho! i mean come on, it was =P 3k backstabs anyone!!?!

    BUT, the community that was born made all this crap that people had to endure worth it.

    So really, If blizz just makes another MMO, they need to do this.

    new story
    no LFG
    no LFR
    no garrisons i guess
    no listening to players who whine about wiping in a heroic 5man, demanding it to be nerfed because they are in mostly all blues and the expansion came out 5 days ago and it should be super easy by now!!!! (that really is the worst >_>)

    and whatever else i can't think of right now that destroyed community


    They just need a game that fosters community and people will flood to it.
    When will people stop making these threads? Unless you invent time travel to go back in time to when all these players you talk about loving Vanilla were in their glory age, it's pointless. People get older and move on.

    The current market for everything is instant gratification. It's not WoWs fault or just a problem with WoW. It's a problem with EVERYTHING!

  12. #32
    If Blizzard decided to make another MMO, I'd be all about a Starcraft or Diablo MMO. I'd be ok with it if we went back to RTS mode for Warcraft and let either Diablo or Starcraft be the MMO for a while.

    Actually, the timing on that isn't bad right now for Starcraft. I think SC2's story is pretty much told now that Legacy of the Void is out. I wouldn't mind for the next Starcraft game to be an MMO.
    Last edited by Ciddy; 2016-04-13 at 03:34 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by feellucky View Post
    Have you tried to use trade chat to form a group? I have and did often in WoD and I did on Nost. It was far easier to put a group together on Nost and very difficult in WoD. When you put in a feature like LFD or LFR people just use that and don't even bother to look at chats, and the fact that its much more difficult to form groups this way now is very discouraging to people like me who still try to do it. Sure I've had some success with it but its minimal and nothing compared to how it was in vanilla. You can blame this on the community if you want but you yourself state the reasons the game has created a toxic community and these features at least in some way helped that along.
    It's far easier to use Trade Chat on Nost because there's literally no other way to form a group. It's not exactly a shock.
    Did you think we had forgotten? Did you think we had forgiven? Behold, now, the terrible vengeance of the Forsaken!

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by feellucky View Post
    Actually they are part of the reason, back in vanilla it was very time consuming to level a new character and there was no other way to start over. You couldn't transfer, you had to start again at level 1, and you could only play with the people on your server. This made your reputation with those you encountered matter. If you were an asshat a few times, ninja looted once, or were just a prick in general, everyone knew about it. Sure there were still a few out there but there was a much stronger incentive within the game to work with others and not be an ass to everyone. Most of that incentive is gone now as you can find a new group anytime with random people you've never met before and will never see again.
    I'd have to disagree, yes there is cross realm and LFG/LFR made it so you weren't accountable. But it was still your choice to act the role of a prick/asshat. Just because accountability is gone doesn't mean you shouldn't still hold yourself accountable. That's like saying, well they gave me a gun and I shot and killed someone, its their fault for giving me the gun. Sorry but you made the choice of shooting or killing someone with the gun, the gun didn't make that choice, the company that gave you the gun didn't make that choice.... you did. So once again, just because accountability is gone and people can't get blacklisted anymore doesn't mean you have to act like a jack ass, that's on you no one or anything else

  15. #35
    With the whole LFR/LFG tool ...the custom groups tab helps out a lot . I have raided mythic with guild and heroics and made some great friends . The community in an MMO is what you make of it . Its your choice to say I will talk to these people or not .. normally people end up being very nice .

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by feellucky View Post

    Many of us have experiences now that proves this isn't the case, what worked in 2005 works just as well or maybe even better in vanilla 2016.
    The model T ford works as well these days as it did when it was first made and with better replacement parts, better fuel and oil it probably works better than it did when it first came off the assembly line but my Ford Focus is still better.

    There is a difference between actually still working and being better.

    In all reality no one liked sitting in trade chat for hours just to get a group going with the possibility of it failing before you even spent the 20 minutes to get to the instance but it was more 'social' than the LFD tool.
    The LFD tool is more convenient but it is little better than playing with a group of NPC's most of the time.
    The interesting thing is there already is a great compromise in the game which is the LFG tool which people use for mythic dungeons and Pug raids.
    Vanilla system was poor, LFD tool is poor, the compromise between the two is much better.

  17. #37
    If the game isn't really for you anymore OP why not just find something else to play.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Sethanor View Post
    its not the game that destroyed the community ... and even tho i loved the old days, i dont get why people think the game made the community into the abomination it currently is ...

    the community destroyed itself ... its this current generation of young people with their need for instant gradification and being triggered by any and all bullshit.
    this is also not a wow problem, its a problem in EVERY aspect of life.

    and your proposition wouldnt work, cause the people that used to love the old days are now older and mostly dont play anymore or dont play as much anymore (priorities seem to shift over the course of ones life ... who would've guessed ^^) and the young crowd wouldnt play such a game for all the reasons why we get the kind of games we see these days.
    But it is the game that destroyed the community. Back before LFG, if you were a douche, after a couple runs everyone on the server knew you were a douche. This would end up causing you to not get to do dungeons/raids. This was a large deterrent to being a douche.

    With the introduction of LFG, you can be a douche because no matter how many times you are one, you continue to be anonymous, which means you can just re-queue and continue to be a douche. There is no longer that penalty for being a douche.

    Yes I know you can kick people, but they also have a limit on that. And most people after spending 30 minutes+ in queue they do not want to kick someone to wait another 30+ minutes to fill that spot.

    Look at peoples outrage over some websites requiring them to use their real name (even just their first name). Yeah some have valid arguments, but most want to have that anonymity so they can be douche bags without consequence. It's the same with anything online. If people can be anonymous (not held accountable) then many will act like douche bags. It's unfortunate, but true.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Skalm View Post
    But it is the game that destroyed the community. Back before LFG, if you were a douche, after a couple runs everyone on the server knew you were a douche. This would end up causing you to not get to do dungeons/raids. This was a large deterrent to being a douche.

    With the introduction of LFG, you can be a douche because no matter how many times you are one, you continue to be anonymous, which means you can just re-queue and continue to be a douche. There is no longer that penalty for being a douche.
    This comes up a lot. "The community used to police itself!"

    Bullshit. Some of the worst, most toxic people I met were in the best progression guilds on my server. In SOME cases making a name for yourself as a ninja or a troll would result in a blacklist, but easily 7/10 times people shrugged, filed a ticket, and moved on.
    Did you think we had forgotten? Did you think we had forgiven? Behold, now, the terrible vengeance of the Forsaken!

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by orderschvank View Post
    Anyway, I dont care what format its in, but I just want an actual MMO COMMUNITY.
    ...
    They just need a game that fosters community and people will flood to it.
    I don't think Blizzard wants anything to do with community. Communities are dangerous, they band together to do things. They'd rather have a million individuals that only care about their own experience than people who might get angry because their friend is angry.

    They'd probably replace WoW chat with HS emotes if they felt they could get away with it.

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