European Parliament declares democracy in Poland under threat

[Krille]

I think Sweden only care about Syrians, Somalians, Afghans ect to feed their insatiable need to be the worlds White Savior.

I think most people in Sweden have been raised valueing solidarity above anything else. I think it's got little to do with wanting to be some saviour or any other selfish reason. I think most people just want to help people fleeing from certain death. Now that is slowly changing because of the very far-right agenda currently bubbling beneath the surface. But that's always been the reason as to why we help people.

[Zoranon]

Wow, it took 1 page for this thread to devolve into nation bashing

And you are surprised?

Central Europeans are generally very proud bunch. And Western Europeans never miss an opportunity to bash them for any slights real or imagined.

[Wyrt]

As in most of the things in your museums were stolen from Central Europe?

Isn't Central Europe Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, etc? East is the former Soviet nations.

[phyx]

Far-right? I mean not even close. But it's always fun to treat the Eastern Europeans with the same shit they treat other immigrants. Because they're by nature incredibly xenophobic. Just take this forum as an example, most of the Eastern Europeans on here are fucking livid about the refugees, yet they are barely doing anything about it. They just hate Muslims and Jews.

Not far-right? And still, the irony here, it's so amazingly delicious. I think I'm skipping dinner.

But they drink shitloads and they commit crimes, go figure, the same as any other immigrants.

Of course, actual data on that is missing.

[xChurch]

Reading all this EU bickering makes me really glad to live in NA.

[Ravenblade]

This is old news essentially. It is very, very, very unlikely that they will strip Poland of its voting rights. This is the ultima ratio. I don't agree with what is happening in Poland right now seeing that's similar to what happened her a long time ago. I wasn't pro premature Eastern expansion to begin with so I wouldn't really be annoyed if they decided to quit. Just remember: Europe has always been a continent of power blocs.

[Rukh]

I don't have an opinion on what the EU can and cant enforce, but "The court itself has struck them down as unconstitutional. The government has refused to recognize that ruling, effectively putting it in legal limbo." That does seem like they are overturning their democratic system. The government can't be outside the jurisdiction of the courts.

[Zoranon]

Isn't Central Europe Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, etc? East is the former Soviet nations.

And Poland, at least in the modern sense, which Sweden pillaged greatly during the Deluge. So I wonder if this is the special attitude the person I quoted meant...

Nowadays, central Europe usually refers to Poland, Czech republic, Hungary, Slovakia and Slovenia.

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I don't have an opinion on what the EU can and cant enforce, but "The court itself has struck them down as unconstitutional. The government has refused to recognize that ruling, effectively putting it in legal limbo." That does seem like they are overturning their democratic system. The government can't be outside the jurisdiction of the courts.

This dispute is procedural. Basically, their (Polish) constitution says the parliament can change procedures by simple majority vote. Which is what the new parliament did. The constitutional court then disregarded this change and invalidated it.

Basically PO (party in power until 2015 election) stacked the court with their appointees and then did some really shady stuff right before the election such as electing judges for seats that were still filled. The current, PiS government used the shady stuff as an excuse to do their own shady stuff.

[Rukh]

And Poland, at least in the modern sense, which Sweden pillaged greatly during the Deluge. So I wonder if this is the special attitude the person I quoted meant...

Nowadays, central Europe usually refers to Poland, Czech republic, Hungary, Slovakia and Slovenia.

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This dispute is procedural. Basically, their (Polish) constitution says the parliament can change procedures by simple majority vote. Which is what the new parliament did. The constitutional court then disregarded this change and invalidated it.

Basically PO (party in power until 2015 election) stacked the court with their appointees and then did some really shady stuff right before the election such as electing judges for seats that were still filled. The current, PiS government used the shady stuff as an excuse to do their own shady stuff.

You still can't just ignore the ruling of the courts if you don't like it. That is the problem.

[araine]

the reason right wing extremists dont see anything wrong with the demolition of democrazy and justice in Poland is that they like a country where the government fires journalists that has been writing articles and stories about how corrupt and dangerous these right wing elements are to the democracy as a principle. But they dont care about that all they want is to be in power and have laws and rules that stop critical views of the right wing fascism that they want to spread on all of us.

You cant label it anything but dangerous to democracy when you replace courts and news media with people "proven" to be siding with the tyrants in office. when you start to dismantle journalists and others doing the job of making sure the truth gets out and when that truth is viewed as something dangerous for the country well you have FASCISM growing in that country and really if you arent taking action against it you deserve to go down in right wing flames in the new set of gas chambers that we will ultimately see down the road if we repeat the right wing nonsense from the 1930s again

[Airlick]

Just throw out all of the baltic states (former Soviet too). Nothing lost for the majority of the countries in the western parts.

Poland is neither a baltic state or a former Soviet state.

[araine]

You still can't just ignore the ruling of the courts if you don't like it. That is the problem.

When the court is a phoney stacked court only created to validate the illegal doings yeah you can and MUST reject that court. Think of this as Obama replacing every justice without senate approval and stacking the courts everywhere with justices that have hippie tattoos and doing so with executive orders firing justices that have been appointed to the court earlier.

That is what happened in Poland and i can promise you, you would be pissed off as fuck and say that supreme court is not a court i will stand by. So care to explain why that from of TYRANNY is ok in Poland? I think it is due to that it is a right wing FASCIST agenda getting pushed thru that allows you to accept it yet the same actions would piss the fuck out of you if Obama did it.

And that reaction of approval in one case and i assume pissed of as fuck in the other case proves the things happening in Poland is NOT kosher for democracy,

So just in case i wrongfully labeled you to object Obamas executive orders to fire all the conservative judges i am sorry for that but i think you would be pissed as fuck if Obama even tried it.

[Deleted]

I don't want any eastern europeans in Sweden, we don't need to hire cheap labor, we need to employ Swedish teenagers with these kinds of jobs.

What about non eastern european migrants? Why dont you say that you dont want them as well? Funny how you conveniently leave those out.

We all know that you guys loathe christian migrants that assimilate and integrate much easier than other groups.
For non-european non christian groups however, you bend over and apologize in advance if your asscheeks are not spread wide enough.

We've got no emotional ties to the eastern european part of Europe, quite the opposite

And eastern europeans will have no emotional ties to you guys either once your country turns into the third world hellhole it maneuvers itself towards to in the next 15 years.

[Zoranon]

You still can't just ignore the ruling of the courts if you don't like it. That is the problem.

Well the PiS government evidently thinks otherwise, they simply claim that as the court ignored the new procedures, it did not produce a ruling. The closest analogy to this would have been Roosevelts court packing plan in 1938. Had it passed, would SCOTUS have the power to ignore the newly appointed judges?

Having said that, the EU is going at this the worst possible way. Kaczinsky (PIS chairman) is not going to give in to pressure, there needs to be some sort of a compromise, not endless calls for him to fold completely.

And I am saying this as someone would does not like Kaczinsky. EU pressure will achieve nothing. I really wonder why EU has learned nothing from the Haider debacle.

[Krille]

Poland is neither a baltic state or a former Soviet state.

Baltic no. But you kid yourself if you think Poland wasnt heavily influenced by Soviet.

"The Soviet Union instituted a new communist government in Poland, analogous to much of the rest of the Eastern Bloc. As elsewhere in Communist Europe the Soviet occupation of Poland met with armed resistance from the outset which continued into the fifties."

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What about non eastern european migrants? Why dont you say that you dont want them as well? Funny how you conveniently leave those out.

We all know that you guys loathe christian migrants that assimilate and integrate much easier than other groups.
For non-european non christian groups however, you bend over and apologize in advance if your asscheeks are not spread wide enough.



And eastern europeans will have no emotional ties to you guys either once your country turns into the third world status it maneuvers itself towards to in the next 15 years.

No it's about polish workers taking 1.5 euro per hour, while Swedish teenagers cost at least 10 euro+ for the same work so companies heavily favour cheap polish labor. Leaving the uneducated youth in welfare programs. Then they stand for 11%+ of the total crime in Sweden, so there's that too.

[Deleted]

Just turning it on it's head. Many i know would consider the eastern european immigration to be worse than the refugees, because they have a fully functional nation they can work in and pillage as they please. They don't need to come here. We've got no emotional ties to the eastern european part of Europe, quite the opposite.

Try to live on 1850 zlotych (approx £342, €431 or $486) a month. Then we'll talk.

[Holas]

How come every single person (that I know) on these forums from Sweden is so....special?
Are they eating different food? is it their education system is different? Is there physiology difference? different brain size? what? This shit can't be by chance.

[Airlick]

Baltic no. But you kid yourself if you think Poland wasnt heavily influenced by Soviet.

"The Soviet Union instituted a new communist government in Poland, analogous to much of the rest of the Eastern Bloc. As elsewhere in Communist Europe the Soviet occupation of Poland met with armed resistance from the outset which continued into the fifties."

I didn't say it wasn't. But it wasn't a Soviet state and Soviets were much more careful with Poland than with any other of their satellite states, and not just because of its incredible development post-WW2, but also because of influential freedom movements in Poland - they needed to pretend that Poland is free to an extent. Poland was by far the most important player after USSR in the eastern bloc.

Baltic no. But you kid yourself if you think Poland wasnt heavily influenced by Soviet.

"The Soviet Union instituted a new communist government in Poland, analogous to much of the rest of the Eastern Bloc. As elsewhere in Communist Europe the Soviet occupation of Poland met with armed resistance from the outset which continued into the fifties."

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No it's about polish workers taking 1.5 euro per hour, while Swedish teenagers cost at least 10 euro+ for the same work so companies heavily favour cheap polish labor. Leaving the uneducated youth in welfare programs. Then they stand for 11%+ of the total crime in Sweden, so there's that too.

Trust me, every polish worker would prefer working in Poland, but for that to happen wages must allow a decent life. It's those polish workers - working for what is peanuts for you - who allow your government to give welfare to your "uneducated youths". Blame your uneducated youths for refusing to work for less than 10 euros, not polish workers for "stealing" jobs noone in your country wants. The truth is, EU is a failed experiment because it does nothing to bridge the gap between poor Eastern Europe countries and developed West - quite the opposite, it's a complicated proccess, but the West is effectively turning the eastern countries into neocolonies. It would be impossible to uplift the East over a year, obviously, but if the East was to be uplifted, it would mean lowering the living standard for the West - simply because it would have no cheap labor to back on.

And this is exactly what PiS is trying to prevent, and what Orban has been doing in Hungary. That's why there's so much outrage in the EU. The West is going to have a bad time if the East breaks away. Do you honestly think any western politic gives a flying fuck about Poland going nazi route? The whole ordeal is not about the constitutional court and the threat to democracy, it's about the threat to western domination of Poland, Hungary, and subsequently all the other Eastern Europe countries.

How come every single person (that I know) on these forums from Sweden is so....special?
Are they eating different food? is it their education system is different? Is there physiology difference? different brain size? what? This shit can't be by chance.

This is my experience as well. Swedes are cryptoracists, the worst ones in Europe for sure. I think they are subconciously aware of it, they hate themselves for it, and that's why they are bending over so much to muslim hordes.

[procne]

This dispute is procedural. Basically, their (Polish) constitution says the parliament can change procedures by simple majority vote. Which is what the new parliament did. The constitutional court then disregarded this change and invalidated it.

Not entirely true. The change is against the consitution.
Where the constitution says that the court makes decision with majority of votes the new law changes it to the majority of 2/3. This is alone is enough to invalidate the new law. Except the government expects the constitutional court to obey the new law, and therefore be unable to declare the new law unconstitutional.

Basically PO (party in power until 2015 election) stacked the court with their appointees and then did some really shady stuff right before the election such as electing judges for seats that were still filled. The current, PiS government used the shady stuff as an excuse to do their own shady stuff.

And that is true indeed.

Practically constitutional court is paralyzed now - it's enough that 3 out of 15 judges don't come to the meeting and the court cannot make any decision. So the government can pass any law that is against constitution. So Poland doesn't have constitution anymore.

[Sesshou]

You still can't just ignore the ruling of the courts if you don't like it. That is the problem.

You can't? I can think of at least one very prominent example where the US did just that.

But more seriously, there should be limits on what the courts can and can do. You know, checks and balances. If there is such a provision in their constitution, the judicial branch shouldn't have the power to disregard or change it. That is for the legislative branch.