Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Kyanion]

And remember when we talk about sub numbers for various expansions. Based on sub numbers anyways Cata wasn't as bad as sub wise as it is perceived by the masses.

[jasoncb]

Was there a massive drop in subs? No. There was the already established trickle down. MoP was fine. Maybe it wasn't superb by your standards, but it didn't make you gag, spit it out and toss to the garbage like Cata/WoD for many. (It could have for you specifically, I mean in general)

I think the popular opinions though is that people who didn't play it purely for the aesthetics are entitled to that decision, but in terms of *gameplay* MoP was a big step up from Cataclysm. In terms of "the game" MoP was "fine". Had its issues like other expansions but the artisitc style wasn't one of them. Except to a few people. What I mean is the accusations of "pandering to Asians and the Kung Fu Panda kiddies market" were pretty unfounded.

It still contributed to the downfall of the game. No it wasn't a complete disaster that WoD is but nothing in Mists made the core game better. In fact the Farmville part in Mists is what gave them the idea about implementing garrisons.

[Kyanion]

I think with all the youtuber responses blizzard is pretty much going to have to change their mind, I have a feeling we are winning the battle to be heard, my heart swells with passion for the wow community for the first time in years.

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in youtube responses/views. Remember that most of the big youtubers that talked about Nost/WoW already had large followers that watch anything they put out. Yes it does matter that it is getting more visibility but I don't know if it would force them to change their minds just on that.

[gamingmuscle]

In danger of repeating myself: WoW's current issue lies in catching the interest of new players to replace those who leave. The trial mode does not even begin to cover the gap between WoW's availability to a new player in the MMORPG-scene compaired to any f2p title, or b2p title with f2p base game (such as GW2).

Attracting new blood is probably WoW only serious issue. Going to F2P may solve that, but will it bring in the same revenues as it currently is. WoW can bleed subscribers for a few more years I bet. Blizzards shop is pretty limited so I don't see blizzard going F2P with WoW any time soon. With blizzards complete lack of interest in legacy servers, I doubt it will happen unless you can show F2P legacy servers would actually generate enough revenue to be worth the effort.

Rough napkin math lets say blizzard has 4million customers paying $10 a month. So $40million in revenue. If 1% of population is a whale, and lets assume wow's population doubles, each whale needs to average 500 a month. I don't know if blizzards store can support that. Couple hats, and dozen mounts/pets. Not sure.

That is where I believe the value of a legacy server lies. Interest in the IP. PR, so to speak. People who are keen on making it a subscription model makes me chuckle, people go to vanilla private realms in large droves during content draughts. That is why Nostalrius became such a heated topic the last 5-10 months. I'd question the wisdom of disregarding the interest in the idea of legacy realms because it wouldn't be a worthwhile subscription-based (an additional subscription on top of retail, that is, which people seem to think it should be) addition.

I'm of the thought private servers are popular more so cause they are free than the particular flavor of WoW they are serving. Vanilla may be the most popular flavor.

[judgementofantonidas]

Why are you using insults in every sentence? Did your bff leave you for a private server or any other trauma in the past?

because the butt hurt is so excruciatingly strong that he/she/it can no longer form a proper argument to support theft of intellectual property

[AeneasBK]

It still contributed to the downfall of the game. No it wasn't a complete disaster that WoD is but nothing in Mists made the core game better. In fact the Farmville part in Mists is what gave them the idea about implementing garrisons.

Pet Battles and Challenge Modes were both very popular and welcome additions to the game.

[Gadzooks]

Well, RIAA does go after some people who download MP3s illegally I'm sure. And I'm sure if Blizz felt the desire they could go after you and win but it would be pointless. The amount of money they'd win would be less than the legal fees which is why I'd say it rarely happens. That doesn't mean you'd win, you wouldn't.

Correct. The RIAA learned, through very expensive legal bills, that suing the downloaders doesn't really do much - but going after the seeders does - and, that they fucked up, and could have controlled the whole thing a lot better. I work in the music industry, I saw their denial first hand. The music industry is very slow to change, always has been.

The MPAA discovered the same thing, which is why the lawsuits have been trickling out, and they're focusing on the seeders.

Suing the users of an illegal server also has it's own unique challenges - sending out 15k subpoenas to ISPs to get user information off of IPs logged to that server is a LOT of work and cost. It's usually only done when criminal charges are done. Most if not all of the RIAA lawsuits against downloaders only happened because the ISPs are working with the RIAA, and they bypass the cost and effort of subpoenas.

[Kyanion]

It still contributed to the downfall of the game. No it wasn't a complete disaster that WoD is but nothing in Mists made the core game better. In fact the Farmville part in Mists is what gave them the idea about implementing garrisons.

It could be argued that MoP did a lot of harm yes, if you look at the sub numbers it dipped fairly quickly and stayed pretty bad the whole expansion. Hype/Hope got people back for WoD and that got soulcrushed. It remains to be seen what Legion will do but I'm more hopeful for Legion than I was WoD.

[gamingmuscle]

Well to be fair while Cata may not be widely loved, it didn't have a massive spikedown drop in subs. It had a trickle down until the last bit before MoP hit. Slowly went down from 12mil to 9.1mil and went back to 10m when MoP released.

It had a spike where it drop 2 or 3 times the trend. It was small by WoD scale, but it was huge for the time.

[Gadzooks]

This is wrong, just like the postal company is not responsible for the contents of envelopes. Semantics are again very important, they can be asked to stop delivering a service but they are not responsible for the service itself.

Wait and see what's filed - I suspect very strongly you're wrong. Safe harbor protections may not apply here.

[judgementofantonidas]

>you break the EULA you are a terrible person

>mfw

its the fucking internet and more specifically a video game on the internet
you are not personally profiting when blizzard shuts down a source of fun for hundreds of thousands of people
you are not on a moral high ground by being anti private server
you're just a prick who takes video games too seriously by being happy when people cant play their preferred version of a video game in some sort of distorted elitism

there is really no good response to how silly you sound.

[Doranian123]

Pet Battles and Challenge Modes were both very popular and welcome additions to the game.

There is no skill in pet battles and all it did was reduce the value of non combat pets to creatures you just walk up right click and add to inventory

[Kyanion]

Attracting new blood is probably WoW only serious issue. Going to F2P may solve that, but will it bring in the same revenues as it currently is. WoW can bleed subscribers for a few more years I bet. Blizzards shop is pretty limited so I don't see blizzard going F2P with WoW any time soon. With blizzards complete lack of interest in legacy servers, I doubt it will happen unless you can show F2P legacy servers would actually generate enough revenue to be worth the effort.

Rough napkin math lets say blizzard has 4million customers paying $10 a month. So $40million in revenue. If 1% of population is a whale, and lets assume wow's population doubles, each whale needs to average 500 a month. I don't know if blizzards store can support that. Couple hats, and dozen mounts/pets. Not sure.

Yeah as one of the whales in WoW (own every store pet/store mount/RAF~mount and pet, there just is nothing left for me to buy from the Blizz store. I mean they got a small uptick from all of us pet/mount crazies with RAF so unless they start adding more of those I don't know what else to even get.

[AeneasBK]

It could be argued that MoP did a lot of harm yes, if you look at the sub numbers it dipped fairly quickly and stayed pretty bad the whole expansion. Hype/Hope got people back for WoD and that got soulcrushed. It remains to be seen what Legion will do but I'm more hopeful for Legion than I was WoD.

I always figured it was the story potential tht brought people back for WoD. None of the game mechanics or changes seemed remotely exciting, but facing off against the horde from Warcraft 2... big pull

Shame they borked that up pretty hard

[Kyanion]

because the butt hurt is so excruciatingly strong that he/she/it can no longer form a proper argument to support theft of intellectual property

You are replying to someone from like post 800, you are post 15,490. heh. Still does not change your stance but you may be a slight bit behind.

- - - Updated - - -

Pet Battles and Challenge Modes were both very popular and welcome additions to the game.

Yup I think Challenge Modes are setting the table for Mythic+ dungeons which I think will be very solid in giving content for smaller groups that can't raid at set hours. And pet battles, I'm a big supporter of that and showered money on Blizzard for giving me that social/fun aspect. Was even fun to play the AH for all of Mop by selling/trading pets.

[Goondicker]

Where is the proof they will pay? And where is the proof they will pay for a long period of time? On a free server like nost the retention rate was 18%. That is on a free server that a hard core person had to seek out. What would the retention rate be on a paid server by the average player be? Not good.

Not good? Where is the proof?

See, that argument isn't great.

We can only make guesses, and that goes for both sides of the argument.

[AeneasBK]

There is no skill in pet battles and all it did was reduce the value of non combat pets to creatures you just walk up right click and add to inventory

Oh thank goodness I wasn't saying Pet Battles added a new difficulty setting to the game, or anything like that. I doubt theres a figure anywhere but I'd expect "time spent doing pet battles" to have a healthy chunk of player time-spent.

May not have been for you, that's groovy, I never really got into Arena, always preferred the BG style of PVP; but I wouldn't try to pretend Arena just reduced the value of PvP to a four digit rating.

[Kyanion]

It had a spike where it drop 2 or 3 times the trend. It was small by WoD scale, but it was huge for the time.

Biggest drop was 1.1millon in Cata, in MoP it was 1.3 mil, so was pretty equal. I do think MoP is viewed more favorable by the masses though. But yes it was a worrying drop in both expansions when they happened.

[judgementofantonidas]

I am a member in a 40 man raid guild on Nostalrius.

My guild mates are now thinking where to migrate (another private server) so as to continue raid together as a guild.

Not one of us wants to play WoW in its current form. We believe WoW's present incarnation is so much changed so as not to be WoW at all.

Just wanting to clarify that Blizzard won't get our subs back. I stopped playing retail 2 years ago or so and will never re-sub.

Good. So you openly admit to supporting theft of services. Go you.

- - - Updated - - -

Well to be fair while Cata may not be widely loved, it didn't have a massive spikedown drop in subs. It had a trickle down until the last bit before MoP hit. Slowly went down from 12mil to 9.1mil and went back to 10m when MoP released.

cata was a boost in the arm for organized guilds. the ones doing it right got the perks and maintained/gained the players.

[Unholyground]

Good. So you openly admit to supporting theft of services. Go you.

AAA game devs don't need any more money imo. Especially with how overpriced games are when they have NEVER been easier to make than they are now.