Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Kolvarg]

Do you agree that downloading pirated movies is stealing?

Do you agree that downloading pirated software is stealing?

Thats basicly what you are doing when you download a vanilla client

its both copyright infringement and stealing

Copyright infringement is only associated with stealing because of propaganda making that comparison for shock value and to try and make common folk understand it's wrong (because almost everyone immediately perceives stealing as wrong).


"Copyright holders frequently refer to copyright infringement as theft. In copyright law, infringement does not refer to theft of physical objects that take away the owner's possession, but an instance where a person exercises one of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder without authorization. Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft. For instance, the United States Supreme Court held in Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property. Instead, "interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: '[...] an infringer of the copyright.'" The court said that in the case of copyright infringement, the province guaranteed to the copyright holder by copyright law – certain exclusive rights – is invaded, but no control, physical or otherwise, is taken over the copyright, nor is the copyright holder wholly deprived of using the copyrighted work or exercising the exclusive rights held."

[Rotted]

Download a Vanilla client? I can download that from Blizzards servers. So now I am a thief for downloading Blizzard offers themselves?
And no, downloading pirated movies/software is not stealing. Better get your legal knowledge up-to-date (although it differs from country to country).

No your not, but thats for your own private use if you download the client, through a service your paying for.

You downloading it, modifying it, and re releasing it on a large scale base is against the ToS. I'd bet if you made a massive successful game which was a money truck and someone did the above, you'd probably count it as stealing,

And yes pirating is technically stealing, you can play it fancy and say its "handling" of stolen goods, but at the end of the day its still illegal,

Stop trying to defend Nost, don't get me wrong I was an active player there and loved it, but jst because we like it, doesn't mean its alright to do it

[Kyanion]

Copyright infringement is only associated with stealing because of propaganda making that comparison for shock value and to try and make common folk understand it's wrong (because almost everyone immediately perceives stealing as wrong).


"Copyright holders frequently refer to copyright infringement as theft. In copyright law, infringement does not refer to theft of physical objects that take away the owner's possession, but an instance where a person exercises one of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder without authorization. Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft. For instance, the United States Supreme Court held in Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property. Instead, "interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: '[...] an infringer of the copyright.'" The court said that in the case of copyright infringement, the province guaranteed to the copyright holder by copyright law – certain exclusive rights – is invaded, but no control, physical or otherwise, is taken over the copyright, nor is the copyright holder wholly deprived of using the copyrighted work or exercising the exclusive rights held."

And honestly it doesn't even really matter. I don't care much about the people on the servers as it would be pointless to even do anything about that. Go after the people running the server and hosting it. Call it whatever, theft, copyright infringement, it really isn't important to the topic at hand about Blizzard making or not making classic realms.

[Idoru]

Same for you: you claim something (basically the same I do), but provide the PROOF. Look it up is so easy. But people engaging in those kinds of violations are not thieves, it's explicitly defined because there is nothing stolen.

What you do is make pedantic arguments about semantics.
They had a link to a client download. That's illegal no matter what you call it.

[Deleted]

Again, your reading comprehension is very bad. In a lot of European countries, downloading pirated movies/software is even legal.

ok so same as Kyanion.

The European court of justice ruled in 2014 that its illegal in the EU to download pirated content online. You can go look it up if you want. I can direct you to where Holland got it pushed over their heads.

If you want that kind of thing to be legal you are looking at china mostly afaik. They have some weird laws on what you can and cant copyright(especially if it originated in the west).

[Kyanion]

No your not, but thats for your own private use if you download the client, through a service your paying for.

You downloading it, modifying it, and re releasing it on a large scale base is against the ToS. I'd bet if you made a massive successful game which was a money truck and someone did the above, you'd probably count it as stealing,

And yes pirating is technically stealing, you can play it fancy and say its "handling" of stolen goods, but at the end of the day its still illegal,

Stop trying to defend Nost, don't get me wrong I was an active player there and loved it, but jst because we like it, doesn't mean its alright to do it

Thank you for being reasonable Rotted. Again I understand why people want to go there and play, I get it. I'm not going to call you a soulless monster for it. The people that were in the wrong were the people that created it in the first place, but as to how bad that really was...that is debatable.

[Deleted]

What you do is make pedantic arguments about semantics.
They had a link to a client download. That's illegal no matter what you call it.

No, it isn't. Like I said, it's different all over the world. And that's why semantics are important. Generalization doesn't help.

[AeneasBK]

Yeah but the problem is still that peopel will get bored when no new content comes. Thats why the new wrath servers that start in the naxx patch are quickly up and down again.

Maybe as the people who fondly remember TBC have aged, and have less time for it, they will consume the more grindy older content in more time than they had when they were 21 and at Uni...

[Deleted]

No your not, but thats for your own private use if you download the client, through a service your paying for.

You downloading it, modifying it, and re releasing it on a large scale base is against the ToS. I'd bet if you made a massive successful game which was a money truck and someone did the above, you'd probably count it as stealing,

And yes pirating is technically stealing, you can play it fancy and say its "handling" of stolen goods, but at the end of the day its still illegal,

Stop trying to defend Nost, don't get me wrong I was an active player there and loved it, but jst because we like it, doesn't mean its alright to do it

I played there aswell for a while. Just for general info. I understand its wrong however.

[Deleted]

ok so same as Kyanion.

The European court of justice ruled in 2014 that its illegal in the EU to download pirated content online. You can go look it up if you want. I can direct you to where Holland got it pushed over their heads.

If you want that kind of thing to be legal you are looking at china mostly afaik. They have some weird laws on what you can and cant copyright(especially if it originated in the west).

Again you claim a lot, but show no proof. And your example of Holland is exactly the wrong one: in Holland it is legal to download pirated content, it is not legal to upload (distribute) it. Jesus, some people.

[Deleted]

Maybe as the people who fondly remember TBC have aged, and have less time for it, they will consume the more grindy older content in more time than they had when they were 21 and at Uni...

Leveling definately takes longer. My main reason for not playing Nostalrius for that long.

[Rotted]

I'm going to take a hit for the team and post this

[Kolvarg]

I agree. It will take around a year or so? Maybe a bit less? But then what?

Like what do you do then? What about the people who still want vanilla, and the people who want a tbc server. Are there room for both?

THe main issue is that people will start getting bored as soon as the end patch hits and stuff is cleared though. Same as on retail and on the private servers

But before they get bored they've already given Blizzard 6 to 18+ months of subscription. And the ones that get bored, as I said, can just progress to a new xpansion and remain another year not-bored.

With that attitude it shouldn't be worthy to work hard on a patch if most players will be bored of it in 2~3 months, no? =P

Of course it's not perfect, I'm not sure if it would be best to be completly based on seasons (ye 1 year only Vanilla available, 1 year only TBC available, etc) or if for instance it transitioned for TBC as the main legacy xpac but some Vanilla realms would still be around for those who want them. There are many ways to do it and a lot of thought must be put into it.

But Imo there shouldn't be a doupt that despite it being relatively stagnant content (with the best possibility being gradually releasing patch content), realms can keep alive for quite a while. There are multiple private servers that have kept realms alive on the same expansion on the last patch for multiple years now, and managed to keep healthy populations.

[Deleted]

Again you claim a lot, but show no proof. And your example of Holland is exactly the wrong one: in Holland it is legal to download pirated content, it is not legal to upload (distribute) it. Jesus, some people.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-in...using-torrents

hello

[Deleted]

I'm going to take a hit for the team and post this

http://www.nostalriusreturns.cf/

I dont think that suprises anyone. Wonder if they managed to save peoples characters

[Belisaurio]

Stupid move from Blizzard.

[Deleted]

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-in...using-torrents

hello

http://blog.iusmentis.com/2014/04/11...-europese-hof/

hello

[Roadblock]

Actually, there was a technical discussion way back in the 200 pages of the thread. It revolved around how Nostalrius could not be feasible in b.net infrastruture that slipped in the annals of THERE IS A DEMAND OF LEGACY and SO WHY CANT THEY HIRE NOSTRALIUS DEVS?

Nah, the problem is 90% of the thread is not qualified to engage in common logic, let alone a technical discussion.
Blizzard is putting real legacy games on the b.net launcher like from the 90s, they'd have no problems getting some middle-ware between legacy-wow and b.net.
You'd obviously have a separate installation folder for your legacy wow if you chose to play that, there's no need to merge it into latest setup.

Some other genius offered as prohibitive reason the absence of warden (Blizz anti-cheat) and how unfeasible it would be to implement that for legacy WoW.
I mean that would be so hard for Blizzard because the talent employed there is obviously sub-par to even amateur enthusiast coders in the wild.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REtUoBsOGX8
That's the only reasonable explanation, a team of professional developers intimately familiar with their design implementation can't reproduce what a single coder reversing can do alone.
They must all suck donkey balls.

There are definitely some valid reasons (from their perspective) for why Blizzard is reluctant to go down the legacy servers road
but technical difficulties is not high on that list.
That excuse is as ridiculous as the "we lost our code guyz"
(and all our logins to our version control, we just keep increasing the same build numbers since wow beta "for fun" they don't mean anything)

[Idoru]

No, it isn't. Like I said, it's different all over the world. And that's why semantics are important. Generalization doesn't help.

It's illegal in France and it's illegal in the US. That's all that matters.

[Kyanion]

Stupid move from Blizzard.

It is not stupid for a company to protect their IP. They must protect it or risk losing it. That is not up for debate. While it may look terrible from a PR standpoint to some people, they are not wrong for doing so.