Blizzard; Can you built some alternative NINJA LOOT protection into the game PLZ?

[LairenyX]

You know what? now that I think about it some more...I'm going to add...some more, yes. I think at expansion start out til late mid expansion, most people might just vote for 1+2 in this new system and towards the end of the expansion, they will start to do 1+3. Maybe. 1+3 still have some chance for dishonesty and ninja looting of course later in the expansion, however, it isn't that big of a deal or a "destroy my experience" kind of a thing. If you get ninja looted here, it's like "whatever, I'm not that much affected", and you might just move on. However, I still think you should still add some stuff for complainers who want to complain if they encounter ninja looting in the later-in-the-game "off-spec territory" kind of a thing. Like for an example, if later into the expansion people are voting for 1+3 loot rules and 5 people rolled for an OS piece, 1 being honest and 4 are friend ninja looters rolling for the piece, a feature should be added to the "Spec Tab" to identify this.

For an example, in the "Live" "Spec Tab" it would have this:

[E] = Has Enchanting

[E][Name][Spec]
[Loot1](Not Deeper Soulbind or Deeper Soulbind]
[Loot2]...
[Loot3]...

If 5 people roll for an off-spec piece, 1 is honest, while 4 are friend ninja looters, you should be able to identify this in the "Live" "Spec Tab" to see who a person has traded a piece of loot too. For an example:

[E][Name][Spec]
[Loot1]------------>[PlayerA]

...the "----------------->[PlayerA]"

Would signify that a person rolled for a piece of off-spec but didn't keep it, hence ninja looting it from someone else who rolled honestly. Once they roll, won, they traded the loot to someone else. The person who really want the off-spec piece can complain to the GM. Cause although they won through "Highest Roller Win The Loot" they failed through the "Main Spec" rule since they didn't keep the piece so the GM can take aciton.

Basically, at this point, getting ninja looted for off-spec, I feel, isn't that big of a deal, and it wouldn't "destroy your life" if you saw it happened to you by ninja looting friend rollers. But IMO, I think this feature should still be added in for those who want to complain to be able to complain, to the group and/or to the GM afterward.

[Amerissis]

You know what? now that I think about it some more...I'm going to add...some more, yes. I think at expansion start out til late mid expansion, most people might just vote for 1+2 in this new system and towards the end of the expansion, they will start to do 1+3. Maybe. 1+3 still have some chance for dishonesty and ninja looting of course later in the expansion, however, it isn't that big of a deal or a "destroy my experience" kind of a thing. If you get ninja looted here, it's like "whatever, I'm not that much affected", and you might just move on. However, I still think you should still add some stuff for complainers who want to complain if they encounter ninja looting in the later-in-the-game "off-spec territory" kind of a thing. Like for an example, if later into the expansion people are voting for 1+3 loot rules and 5 people rolled for an OS piece, 1 being honest and 4 are friend ninja looters rolling for the piece, a feature should be added to the "Spec Tab" to identify this.

For an example, in the "Live" "Spec Tab" it would have this:

[E] = Has Enchanting

[E][Name][Spec]
[Loot1](Not Deeper Soulbind or Deeper Soulbind]
[Loot2]...
[Loot3]...

If 5 people roll for an off-spec piece, 1 is honest, while 4 are friend ninja looters, you should be able to identify this in the "Live" "Spec Tab" to see who a person has traded a piece of loot too. For an example:

[E][Name][Spec]
[Loot1]------------>[PlayerA]

...the "----------------->[PlayerA]"

Would signify that a person rolled for a piece of off-spec but didn't keep it, hence ninja looting it from someone else who rolled honestly. Once they roll, won, they traded the loot to someone else. The person who really want the off-spec piece can complain to the GM. Cause although they won through "Highest Roller Win The Loot" they failed through the "Main Spec" rule since they didn't keep the piece so the GM can take aciton.

Basically, at this point, getting ninja looted for off-spec, I feel, isn't that big of a deal, and it wouldn't "destroy your life" if you saw it happened to you by ninja looting friend rollers. But IMO, I think this feature should still be added in for those who want to complain to be able to complain, to the group and/or to the GM afterward.

You start making less and less sense. What is 'not deeper soulbind or deeper soulbind'? What is '...the' supposed to mean? What is "Live" "Spec Tab"? Do you have a "Dead" "Spec Tab", too? Really. If you want people to ninja from you, go join a random group without personal loot on. Why all the fuzzy rules around it?

[LairenyX]

You start making less and less sense. What is 'not deeper soulbind or deeper soulbind'? What is '...the' supposed to mean? What is "Live" "Spec Tab"? Do you have a "Dead" "Spec Tab", too? Really. If you want people to ninja from you, go join a random group without personal loot on. Why all the fuzzy rules around it?

Dude it's just too much miscommunication and misunderstanding. I can't handle it.

[Amerissis]

Dude it's just too much miscommunication and misunderstanding. I can't handle it.

Maybe lay of the drugs and/or alcohol for a while and start communicating in a sane manner. Good luck.

[Eleccybubb]

Dude it's just too much miscommunication and misunderstanding. I can't handle it.

And half of the random things you've described would create even more. So again I'd rather keep the loot tools that work now. Hell I'd rather use Round Robin than what you suggested.

[Jotaux]

I just refuse to join a pug group if its not on personal loot. Unless I am already saved and just want to use some coins.

[Fasolina]

You want danger and excitement of seeing that full loot window, but you dont want the risk of it... So Blizzard takes away the risk, and you still aren't happy. Perhaps you need to make better choices who you group/raid with if you still want that danger but dont want the risk.

This, a thousand times this. You can't have it both ways, you are either in Personal Loot and remove NL altogether, or you accept the risk of allowing strangers to have control over you... this convoluted twenty image explanation for some contrived alternative is just overkill.

[LairenyX]

This, a thousand times this. You can't have it both ways, you are either in Personal Loot and remove NL altogether, or you accept the risk of allowing strangers to have control over you... this convoluted twenty image explanation for some contrived alternative is just overkill.

I just want to remind everyone that when a guy made a party with 2 of his friends and uses the Group Finder to fill up the other 12 slots, they're depending on 12 other people in the public who also has to sit through the raid and work hard, endure wipes, lots of wipes. It wouldn't be fair for the 3 guys to be able to ninja friend roll the loot, or just regular ninja loot, the 12 people in the public. This isn't private guilds territory. Again, it's 12 other people who has to put in the work too in a public gathering.

If you're going to argue that "you accept the risk" then I will again counter with post #69. Average, regular, people don't want to wait 2 days to raid, don't want the pressure and responsibility of leading, just want to use the Group Finder to raid-on-demand, has fear of confrontation, and has no way to tell the difference between the different mode of ML without having to jump through the hoops of confrontation. This will only lead to uncertainty, fear of being ninja looted, a sub-optimal looting experience in WoW, hence a sub-optimal WoW experience for millions, and hence unhealthy for WoW. The Group Finder is 2016 technology in the realm of the public kind-of-a-thing, millions. So, a voting system should be put in place for this type of a modern landscape in 2016 to serve the most people and provide the maximum most exciting loot experience and fairness, hence maximum WoW experience.

Everyone probably just main 1 or very rarely 2 characters and want to make their 1 character into a hero. Everyone will probably just want to 1+2 and will vote like that initially until mid or late expansion to which they might start to vote 1+3, which this voting system has the flexibility of allowing for offspec run later. Let people vote. Again, it's 12 people in the public that has to be depended on and has to put in the work and sit through the wipes TOO.

-----------
Also, the voting system should have some kind of an AI that recognizes when the number of new people entering would change the balance the group's loot rules and hence initiate subsequent voting rounds. For an example, if 5 people vote for 1+3 and 10 people vote for 1+2 in a 15 man group, 5 people in the 1+2 group leave and 5 new people join, these 5 new people could change the group's loot rules to 1+3 so the system should initiate a second voting round and so on if necessary if more people leave or enter.

[Eleccybubb]

I just want to remind everyone that when a guy made a party with 2 of his friends and uses the Group Finder to fill up the other 12 slots, they're depending on 12 other people in the public who also has to sit through the raid and work hard, endure wipes, lots of wipes. It wouldn't be fair for the 3 guys to be able to ninja friend roll the loot, or just regular ninja loot, the 12 people in the public. This isn't private guilds territory. Again, it's 12 other people who has to put in the work too in a public gathering.

If you're going to argue that "you accept the risk" then I will again counter with post #69. Average, regular, people don't want to wait 2 days to raid, don't want the pressure and responsibility of leading, just want to use the Group Finder to raid-on-demand, has fear of confrontation, and has no way to tell the difference between the different mode of ML without having to jump through the hoops of confrontation. This will only lead to uncertainty, fear of being ninja looted, a sub-optimal looting experience in WoW, hence a sub-optimal WoW experience for millions, and hence unhealthy for WoW. The Group Finder is 2016 technology in the realm of the public kind-of-a-thing, millions. So, a voting system should be put in place for this type of a modern landscape in 2016 to serve the most people and provide the maximum most exciting loot experience and fairness, hence maximum WoW experience.

Everyone probably just main 1 or very rarely 2 characters and want to make their 1 character into a hero. Everyone will probably just want to 1+2 and will vote like that initially until mid or late expansion to which they might start to vote 1+3, which this voting system has the flexibility of allowing for offspec run later. Let people vote. Again, it's 12 people in the public that has to be depended on and has to put in the work and sit through the wipes TOO.

-----------
Also, the voting system should have some kind of an AI that recognizes when the number of new people entering would change the balance the group's loot rules and hence initiate subsequent voting rounds. For an example, if 5 people vote for 1+3 and 10 people vote for 1+2 in a 15 man group, 5 people in the 1+2 group leave and 5 new people join, these 5 new people could change the group's loot rules to 1+3 so the system should initiate a second voting round and so on if necessary if more people leave or enter.

There is no argument of you accept the risks or not rofl. If you didn't read the group description it is on you end of story. So again no a voting system is stupid because it gives power to the players which would create an even more "unhealthy experience" that you seem to be under the illusion of is causing to the game already as well as vote kicking would cause more issues than it would solve, which is none. Use personal loot for a pug, use Master loot for a group of people you know such as friends or guildies. Like I said, Round Robin is a better system than what you are proposing and that is awful.

[Seranthor]

*snip, because I dont need to quote your wall of text to say what I need to say*

How about if you dont like the loot rules of a raid/group, then you dont join them... if you want to kill something bad enough then start your own group with your own loot rules. What entitles YOU to force a group YOU join to have the loot rules YOU want?

[TheFirstOnes]

This is....too...long....my eyes...cannot...comprehend...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OT: Personal loot...done.

[Pony Soldier]

I think personal loot is the way to go. Although I do agree that it is depressing when you loot a boss and you only get 1 piece of gear or it'll be like 5g. So with that said I think they just need to add more drops or at least a better chance at multiple drops. Personal loot is actually a better system I think it's just they need to add more to it so it doesn't feel so unrewarding as it does now. Maybe in Legion? Hopefully.

[SirBeef]

It's real simple use PL, don't join groups that don't. Form your own groups.

- - - Updated - - -

I think personal loot is the way to go. Although I do agree that it is depressing when you loot a boss and you only get 1 piece of gear or it'll be like 5g. So with that said I think they just need to add more drops or at least a better chance at multiple drops. Personal loot is actually a better system I think it's just they need to add more to it so it doesn't feel so unrewarding as it does now. Maybe in Legion? Hopefully.

In terms of dungeons it historically has only been one piece of loot per boss. PL it is possible for everyone to get something.

[Jotaux]

It's real simple use PL, don't join groups that don't. Form your own groups.

Yep, I don't join groups through the raid finder unless its PL or I'm already loot locked and just want to use some coins. I've been burned too many times.

[Deleted]

Sounds better to me than personal although it would still need a mechanism to specifically reserve loot. Having some sort of pug protection like this though sounds otherwise fine.

The system should just check if you already have an item when rolling and automatically remove this item from the list of possible items if you win the roll to get any item.

Check: Win an item?
If no - get gold
If yes - check if one of the appropriate items is already in the possession of the character
If no - proceed with selecting a random item from the complete list of appropriate items
If yes - remove the item from the list and continue with selecting a random item from the remaining items

[Deleted]

No. I think ninja should be viable. There so so many random plebeians around, you should be able to get gear and bypass them.

[pmkaboo]

i dont understand whats the problem with personal loot? you still get a window with all the stuff that dropped, it even looks more fancy than the standard loot window...

[Pony Soldier]

It's real simple use PL, don't join groups that don't. Form your own groups.

- - - Updated - - -



In terms of dungeons it historically has only been one piece of loot per boss. PL it is possible for everyone to get something.

The one piece of loot per boss thing is fine it's just I wish they would just somehow make looting feel more rewarding. There'll be times where I'll run a dungeon and get nothing but like 20g (like 5g each boss). That's nothing. It's hardly enough to cover repairs. Each piece of gear that drops in dungeons amount to around 15g-20g so getting that amount from each boss would even help. Or hell give us some crappy greens to disenchant or enchanting materials straight out or garrison resources or even better apexis crystals. Like 100 crystals each boss or something. That would make running dungeons over and over less tedious and unrewarding and there would be a point to running them again and again.

I really hope in Legion they add more to personal loot or at the very least increase the amount of gold each boss drops because of right now it feels so unrewarding and it's so frustrating spending like 15-20 minutes running a dungeon and getting nothing out of it but a handful of gold.

[SirBeef]

The one piece of loot per boss thing is fine it's just I wish they would just somehow make looting feel more rewarding. There'll be times where I'll run a dungeon and get nothing but like 20g (like 5g each boss). That's nothing. It's hardly enough to cover repairs. Each piece of gear that drops in dungeons amount to around 15g-20g so getting that amount from each boss would even help. Or hell give us some crappy greens to disenchant or enchanting materials straight out or garrison resources or even better apexis crystals. Like 100 crystals each boss or something. That would make running dungeons over and over less tedious and unrewarding and there would be a point to running them again and again.

I really hope in Legion they add more to personal loot or at the very least increase the amount of gold each boss drops because of right now it feels so unrewarding and it's so frustrating spending like 15-20 minutes running a dungeon and getting nothing out of it but a handful of gold.

But in regular dungeons prior to PL you may have gotten nothing at all from all the bosses. At least PL gives you an opportunity to get something from every boss. I find it more rewarding than the way it was prior when everyone was rolling need regardless of if they needed it or not.

[Deleted]

I think most systems proposed here are way too complicated for something that can either be fixed by running with a guild group like Blizzard intended or simply using the personal loot.

I think the comparison made earlier by a different poster where you like the excitement of seeing 4-5 items, but don't like the inherent risk of maybe not getting those juicy items is quite correct.


One simple fix that should make everyone happy though: Don't allow loot rules to be changed in combat. Then everyone has to join and lead raids with their intentions shown and you can decide at the start if you want to stay or leave.