The Broken Shore (SPOILERS)

[Ragnarocket]

Jaina is receiving such an obvious traitor buildup its not even funny. Also, am i the only one that didn't felt intimidated when all those shitty characters like brutallus and jaraxxus came back ? I mean, we just gonna kill them again.

I actually thought it was kind of cool moment, suddenly all the bad guys from the past just surging out of the portal (or being summoned) and we're sitting there facing down some of the biggest baddies we've ever dealt with. I'd say it would actually be a pretty terrifying moment if you think about it, it tool many people to take down these demons individually and now they've got the advantage with the fel power everywhere, Gul'dan cackling away, and legions of demons to assist them. I don't think that would be easy to deal with.

Obviously in terms of the game, if that was an actual raid fight or something we'd be able to handle it. I'm just thinking in terms of how it felt.

[Maxilian]

Yep, they doesn't feel intimidating anymore.. Dungeon fodder for us, if not killed questing.
The fel giant that Gul'dan summoned from the water, that one was amazing, tho. I wonder why Blizz doesn't invest more in new demons which can actually impress the player.

About Jaina.. yeah.. even Garrosh was more subtle.

I don't think Jaina will end up as a traitor, i think the point is to build up conflict in the Alliance (reverse the role with the Horde, now the Horde stands united and the Alliance with internal conflict between its heads)

Note: In Azsuna we can see some Sea Giants and Nagas with Kultiras soldiers and Zandalari trolls as slaves (so... Kultiras may be near and may be soon joining the fight -With Jaina as the head- also the Zandalir Trolls feels like a hint to the "Old Friend" that Vol'jin mentioned

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Lok'tar Ogar, Victory or Death. (except when its inconvenient)

And that's why the Warchief is not an Orc anymore (IMHO is a silly mentality for a commander)

[Orby]

Jaina is receiving such an obvious traitor buildup its not even funny. Also, am i the only one that didn't felt intimidated when all those shitty characters like brutallus and jaraxxus came back ? I mean, we just gonna kill them again.

lol you know I totally overlooked that thought, its weird that Jaina isn't anywhere to be seen in Legion beta other than this fight? It looks likely, I hope you're wrong though, why Jaina would betray Varian for the Legion is beyond me, she hates the Horde not the alliance, why would she go THAT insane. Unless she really is a Dreadlord :P

But seriously Blizzard don't mess with my Jaina

[Arrashi]

lol you know I totally overlooked that thought, its weird that Jaina isn't anywhere to be seen in Legion beta other than this fight? It looks likely, I hope you're wrong though, why Jaina would betray Varian for the Legion is beyond me, she hates the Horde not the alliance, why would she go THAT insane. Unless she really is a Dreadlord :P

But seriously Blizzard don't mess with my Jaina

She goes missing after kirin tor tells her to kill herself and stop embarrasing them in public. Jaina with taint of green - almost confirmed.

[Maxilian]

She goes missing after kirin tor tells her to kill herself and stop embarrasing them in public. Jaina with taint of green - almost confirmed.

I don't think she would fall for the corruption of the Legion.... The Old Gods in the other hand, they can show her the true meaning of MADNESS

[Arrashi]

I don't think she would fall for the corruption of the Legion.... The Old Gods in the other hand, they can show her the true meaning of MADNESS

The moment you go "I will show you all/you will see" is literally admiting you will take first morally questionable source of power that is available.

[elderu]

Oh yes, more of the Horde being the bad guys. How utterly original.

Horde are the bad guys FFS. I play Horde and I recognize that. If you wanna be the good guy, go play Alliance.

Just because you have a common foe, doesn't mean that one of the two isn't worse than the other.

Trolls hate everyone, Forsaken hate everyone, Orcs are brutal monsters, Blood Elves are malicious spiteful people, Goblins are greedy and hotheaded,

Tauren can be brutes, but they are the only peaceful race in the Horde. Get over your "why is horde da bad guyz" dilemma. It's ALWAYS been that way and always will be or else Blizzard is ruining the game.

[Rend Blackhand]

Horde are the bad guys FFS. I play Horde and I recognize that. If you wanna be the good guy, go play Alliance.

Just because you have a common foe, doesn't mean that one of the two isn't worse than the other.

Trolls hate everyone, Forsaken hate everyone, Orcs are brutal monsters, Blood Elves are malicious spiteful people, Goblins are greedy and hotheaded,

Tauren can be brutes, but they are the only peaceful race in the Horde. Get over your "why is horde da bad guyz" dilemma. It's ALWAYS been that way and always will be or else Blizzard is ruining the game.

I wouldn't go s far as saying they're the bad guys but they're certainly the bad guys from the Alliance point of view.

The Horde is a war based faction and apparently that makes then super evil.

Strong warriors and crushing enemies is Orc culture, not necessarily evil

[johnnyd2]

Sad to see Mal'Ganis & Varimathras aren't among the dreadlords appearing =/
Unless I am blind

good news, i actually did see malganis when mousing over the rogues gallery, though due to the short timespan, i didnt get a chance to screengrab, and /tar mal went to a random pitlord intsead XPD

[Hawthorne Wipes]

I don't think Jaina will end up as a traitor, i think the point is to build up conflict in the Alliance (reverse the role with the Horde, now the Horde stands united and the Alliance with internal conflict between its heads)

Note: In Azsuna we can see some Sea Giants and Nagas with Kultiras soldiers and Zandalari trolls as slaves (so... Kultiras may be near and may be soon joining the fight -With Jaina as the head- also the Zandalir Trolls feels like a hint to the "Old Friend" that Vol'jin mentioned

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And that's why the Warchief is not an Orc anymore (IMHO is a silly mentality for a commander)

Oh, I don't think see will end up being a big villain, but Jaina doesn't find a leader in Anduin.
She may perfectly promote herself and start giving higher orders without the consent of the rest of the Alliance.
That I can totally see

[Evilfish]

I don't get what the fuss is about. YOU KNEW THIS WAS HAPPENING! Varian was gonna die. The Horde and the Alliance are gonna be at odds. Yet somehow let's blame Sylvanas again. Cause no fucking Alliance fanboy had any other solution to any other problem than "KILL SYLVANAS".

I was also not aware the Horde was in the Alliance ARMY.

Now we get to blame the Alliance for Vol'jin dying cause of Varian's "plan"... well, you know, if anyone actually cared Vol'jin dies.

This is going to be another Catacylsm whine, but instead of "THERAMORE" you'll whine "VARIAN". The whole story isn't even out yet and the crying is in full heat already.

[Shizari]

I don't get what the fuss is about. YOU KNEW THIS WAS HAPPENING! Varian was gonna die. The Horde and the Alliance are gonna be at odds. Yet somehow let's blame Sylvanas again. Cause no fucking Alliance fanboy had any other solution to any other problem than "KILL SYLVANAS".

I was also not aware the Horde was in the Alliance ARMY.

Now we get to blame the Alliance for Vol'jin dying cause of Varian's "plan"... well, you know, if anyone actually cared Vol'jin dies.

This is going to be another Catacylsm whine, but instead of "THERAMORE" you'll whine "VARIAN". The whole story isn't even out yet and the crying is in full heat already.

...jeezus.

I'm reserving judgement until Horde side is out, or if the cinematic comes out, depends on what comes first.

But it does look pretty suspect. They showed the rough sketch storyboards at Blizzcon, and good ol Lady Windrunner does seem to be there.

[Leodok]

RIP Varian.

I can't wait to see what the Horde will say when they realize they were the ones to run away from the battle.

That final confrontation with Gul'dan is really tense, even without the cinematic!

Now just imagine that with awesome Legion music, fully voice acted, and ending in a cinematic... Is it September yet?

[Maxilian]

...jeezus.

I'm reserving judgement until Horde side is out, or if the cinematic comes out, depends on what comes first.

But it does look pretty suspect. They showed the rough sketch storyboards at Blizzcon, and good ol Lady Windrunner does seem to be there.

We already have an idea of what's going on cause we have Sylvanas quotes out already

[Derah]

We already have an idea of what's going on cause we have Sylvanas quotes out already

Quotes without context mean shit. We also had "quotes" during the 5.1 quests, and that led to everyone speculating that Garrosh would kill anduin. Look how that ended up instead.

Also, I'll remind you that the horde was NOT led by Sylvanas, but by Vol'jin. He's the current warchief of the horde. And Vol'jin doesn't withdraw. You see this in the book "Shadow of the Horde" where vol'jin, greatly wounded, still recuperating from the poisoned dagger he took to the neck, still refused to flee overwhelming odds when the Mogu attacked the Shado-Pan Monastery, and instead preferred to meet them in a glorious last stand down to the last man.

THAT is the person who was leading the horde. And much like varian, he didn't came back.

The horde didn't "betrayed" the alliance as so many of you delicately put it. They faced overwhelming odds, and were forced to retreat EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE ALLIANCE.

I saw the video, the moment Gul'dan summoned that shitload of demons, the alliance didn't just go "Well, that's a lot of demons, but if the horde backs us up, we can take em'. What's that? The horde withdrew? OHH SHIT, WE'RE SCREWED, SOUND THE RETREAT!!!!!".

That's not what happened. In the actual video, Gul'dan summons that shitload of demons, and the alliance's first immediate reaction was: FALL BACK, FALL BACK, FALL BACK!!!!!!.

So, I have to ask, why is it cowardice when the horde does it, but it isn't when the alliance does? Double-standard much?

[Champloo]

Because it wasn't a complete unwinnable objective before Gul'dan practically uses Mass Resurrection on every single slightly important demon since Vanilla. Before they saw that it was just like any other war, but when that happened anyone smart would have turned back just by seeing even a quarter of those demons. Was it a shit thing to do, probably, but unfortunately, it was the smart shit thing to do.

Hmmm come to think of it, did we really have 0 demon bosses in vanilla? I literally can't think of one. Perhaps in some of the non-raids?

[Eldryth]

Hmmm come to think of it, did we really have 0 demon bosses in vanilla? I literally can't think of one. Perhaps in some of the non-raids?

Balnazzar in Stratholme. Apart from that I don't remember, it's been so long.

[Zenny]

Horde are the bad guys FFS. I play Horde and I recognize that. If you wanna be the good guy, go play Alliance.

Just because you have a common foe, doesn't mean that one of the two isn't worse than the other.

Trolls hate everyone, Forsaken hate everyone, Orcs are brutal monsters, Blood Elves are malicious spiteful people, Goblins are greedy and hotheaded,

Tauren can be brutes, but they are the only peaceful race in the Horde. Get over your "why is horde da bad guyz" dilemma. It's ALWAYS been that way and always will be or else Blizzard is ruining the game.

No, Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft never meant for the Horde to be the evil faction. Before Cataclysm the Horde was not in any ways portrayed as the evil faction in the game, only the Forsaken came off as such.

[Adoxe]

You can see Illidan, Varian, Genn, Mekkartoque, Sylvanas, Tyrande, Baine, Lor'themar and Gul'dan in the cinematic preview from Blizzcon:

Malfurion and Council will probably be there aswell alongside the other ones who are "missing".

[Worgar]

Quotes without context mean shit. We also had "quotes" during the 5.1 quests, and that led to everyone speculating that Garrosh would kill anduin. Look how that ended up instead.

Also, I'll remind you that the horde was NOT led by Sylvanas, but by Vol'jin. He's the current warchief of the horde. And Vol'jin doesn't withdraw. You see this in the book "Shadow of the Horde" where vol'jin, greatly wounded, still recuperating from the poisoned dagger he took to the neck, still refused to flee overwhelming odds when the Mogu attacked the Shado-Pan Monastery, and instead preferred to meet them in a glorious last stand down to the last man.

THAT is the person who was leading the horde. And much like varian, he didn't came back.

The horde didn't "betrayed" the alliance as so many of you delicately put it. They faced overwhelming odds, and were forced to retreat EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE ALLIANCE.

I saw the video, the moment Gul'dan summoned that shitload of demons, the alliance didn't just go "Well, that's a lot of demons, but if the horde backs us up, we can take em'. What's that? The horde withdrew? OHH SHIT, WE'RE SCREWED, SOUND THE RETREAT!!!!!".

That's not what happened. In the actual video, Gul'dan summons that shitload of demons, and the alliance's first immediate reaction was: FALL BACK, FALL BACK, FALL BACK!!!!!!.

So, I have to ask, why is it cowardice when the horde does it, but it isn't when the alliance does? Double-standard much?

i thought the betrayal wasn't so much that sylvanas retreated, its that she retreated early and allowed the demons to more or less surround the alliance forces and rout them.