Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Akka]

I don't know about others, but I never played vanilla back in the day, my first experience came around this year and I liked it way more than what is currently on offer. So the rose-tinted argument doesn't work for me.

They will STILL tell you it's nostalgia. I've seen it happens more than once. It's not about making counter-arguments, it's about dismissing automatically anything that is not following their narrative without even thinking about it. That's why the discussion is pointless - you can't discuss with someone who actively doesn't want it.

[Kyanion]

Actually you're wrong (who said "as usual" ?), the class breakdown in Vanilla was pretty exactly the same.

I need a source if you believe true Vanilla's class breakdown was as borked as Nost was. No way in fuck there were THAT many warriors/rogues compared to live.

[Deleted]

Nd how long have you ben playing it? How many lvl 60s did you make or how mnay hours of /played?

Note: I don't doubt the answer will be "loads" but saying "within 30 mins I was hooked" doesn't really adress the issue of retention. It's whether you are still hooked 6, 12, 18 months later which is the conern

I personally played it in bursts - played it at first for a bit more than a week, got a warrior to 24, then quit. But I came back every few months, playing another class... and playing another class. I started this roughly april or may last year - cannot quite remember, but it was the one game I came back to again and again.
I had a warrior, hunter, paladin, druid and a rogue in the 10-30 range by the end.

Now, yeah the question is why I only played in short burst of only a bit more than a week at a time? For me it was mainly not wanting to commit: I still have not played Witcher 3 more than an hour because I just cannot commit to it mentally, fearing it will completely absorb me - and that as a huge witcher fan.
I also could not play divinity original sin for more than a few hours... mental block for me.
The risk of it being shut down was also quite high, I mean I only found out about Nost because of mmo-champ and I was not high on private.

So yeah perhaps you think I would tire of it easily, perhaps I will, but I could not get into any other RPG in the last years nearly as much as into nostalrius - and it made me revisit it again and again even though I did not want to.


What do I play today mainly? either short games like tomb raider etc or grand strategy games like EU4 or CK2 (which are similarly successfull in steamcharts concurrent players to nostalrius for some reason?) putting hundreds of hours into a singleplayer game...
I mainly want legacy because it is the game that I have the desire to return to again and again - and perhaps commit to it again - at least it is the only wow I would go back to again - not retail because nost showed me what I loved about vanilla.
Truth being of course, that I would right now not start vanilla if they release legacy right now - because I am super hyped for stellaris in less than a month, but it is insane how much I care about being able to play vanilla wow again - the wow that I absolutely adore.

[Kyanion]

If its not competitive why should it be viable lol?

unless you are one of those people who dont mind being 10% under everyone else.

I mean that would make it viable to you. But definately not someone who is competitive.

Why the f even raid if you are not competitive lol

Well I'll side with Akka on that one. Not EVERYONE plays to be the most competitive but can hold their own on specs they like to play. Not every guild is busting down doors to be world first. I mean there were plenty of specs that parsed under others in TBC but it didn't stop some of those classes/specs being played and getting raid spots in decent guilds.

- - - Updated - - -

True, but discussing this has proved to be pointless. The raging fanboys basically ignore any argument under the pretext of "it's nostalgia/rose-tinted glasses", throw a lot of false/exagerrated clichés about Vanilla, strawman any point they don't dismiss (basically only pointing at the bad part and conveniently ignoring all the points made about the good parts) and all in all drown any attempt at debate/discussion with noise.

So well, if it's impossible to discuss design decisions, the only recourse left is to simply shrug and go back to play the iteration, however imperfect and unpolished, where the design was actually in full force.

You know by making a statement like that you are basically trying to shut the door on any discussion and handwaving it away as if people can't make an argument against what you say. Some players are there for nostalgia, some are there because that is what they love, some are there because it is free, and so on. All I can do is point out that as recent as Jan 2016 blue posters went over why they don't want to do classic realms at this time. I don't know what else to say. I UNDERSTAND why people want Vanilla, or classic realms or a return to the past in difficulty/things to do. I have no power to make that happen.

[Kezotar]

Not sure if this is a serious question, or just super nuanced.

Playing doesn't mean raiding.
You can play WoW, I don't care. You shouldn't be able to raid unless you put time and effort. And tbh, you wouldn't be able to raid if it wasn't for LFR.

And putting time into a game is not the same as spending most of your day in there. It's about looking out for the mechanics and not have 90% of them removed so that you can play a game. It's funny how this is normal in LFR, but imagine playing games at handicap? It has to be embarrassing. Becaus that's what you're essentially doing.

[Kyanion]

Another ignorant who dont know what is it all about.....its sad how looks modern wow community...those kids /sigh

I'm willing to bet I'm far older than you. I've played this game since Vanilla opened its doors. I get the love for Vanilla and things in the past. I however feel if Vanilla was put out today I don't think it would be a long term viable success for Blizzard. I think people would get bored fairly quickly, I think they would demand balance/bug fixes and it would open a can of worms for people demanding TBC realms and WotLK realms and so on.

But to come in this thread with a new account call people ignorant and kids is really just pointless.

[Santoryu]

They will STILL tell you it's nostalgia. I've seen it happens more than once. It's not about making counter-arguments, it's about dismissing automatically anything that is not following their narrative without even thinking about it. That's why the discussion is pointless - you can't discuss with someone who actively doesn't want it.

Just like antivaxxers.

I did play back in Vanilla and I can say I disliked playing it again 11 years on, so I guess the rose-tinted argument doesn't work for me either ;D

Fair enough.

[Az0na]

Funny if they setup these servers linking your account to need of active wow subscription of blizzard live servers that blizzard did not bat an eye and let it life. Its all about money and not about what players like.

If I would setup legacy private server I would force you to have active sub of the orignal game in order to play and this way everyone could be happy and no one can play it for free and optional donating to help them keep their servers running.

But that is what I would do.

And I would love play vanilla. Even if its not perfect it is still better the current wow. I never liked lfg/lfr matchmaking stuff. Hell even hated summon stones because made people lazy.

[Kyanion]

They will STILL tell you it's nostalgia. I've seen it happens more than once. It's not about making counter-arguments, it's about dismissing automatically anything that is not following their narrative without even thinking about it. That's why the discussion is pointless - you can't discuss with someone who actively doesn't want it.

Well some of our arguments have to be nostalgia based because what else is it for me? I PLAYED in Vanilla I remember many things fondly. I don't think Vanilla would even get me to go back and try it because I've done everything I wanted to do there. Maybe I'd check out TBC or WotLK realms but not Vanilla. However it does not mean other people wouldn't like it. I just don't know if ENOUGH people would stay long term with it.

- - - Updated - - -

Playing doesn't mean raiding.
You can play WoW, I don't care. You shouldn't be able to raid unless you put time and effort. And tbh, you wouldn't be able to raid if it wasn't for LFR.

And putting time into a game is not the same as spending most of your day in there. It's about looking out for the mechanics and not have 90% of them removed so that you can play a game. It's funny how this is normal in LFR, but imagine playing games at handicap? It has to be embarrassing. Becaus that's what you're essentially doing.

Well thank god there is more than one difficulty in current WoW. I mean the early days of LFR was better in my eyes because some mechanics still mattered, people died quite often. Today it is quite the joke but it isn't for me to judge someone wanting to just SEE the content.

[khalltusk]

Well I'll side with Akka on that one. Not EVERYONE plays to be the most competitive but can hold their own on specs they like to play. Not every guild is busting down doors to be world first. I mean there were plenty of specs that parsed under others in TBC but it didn't stop some of those classes/specs being played and getting raid spots in decent guilds.

The issue with Vanilla was that anything for Hybrids like Shaman Druids or paladins (and priests) was that their healing specs were the only viable ones in raids and the end game dungeons. Not even about competitive, it was the only ones worth taking. Your damage was so low compared that you would struggle to get into a pug or guild that wanted to do any form of high end dungeon/raid content.

Looking back at Vanilla, if you applied to a guild as a tanking paladin or druid, you would 9/10 times be told go to away. Then one lower end guild stuck in MC might let them in. It was a very rare thing as leather gear was really not optimised for it and the talents were not so good. Sure some people might still be able to play it but they were few and far between. Now if a vanilla server had used the pre TBC patch talents then it would not be so bad. As Shaman, Paladins Druids and priests all had viable alternative specs so they could do damage/tanking or healing respectively.

Hybrid tax in TBC was a real thing and sucked, but it was better than Vanillas setup by a long way. In TBC, enhancement shaman were taken as they provided serious DPS buffs for melee groups. Their DPS was also not so bad. totem twisting was a major thing and enhancement via shamanistic rage could keep it up. DPS druids were sub par but had some uses, and shadow priests were mana batteries. But you only took 1 or 2 of these hybrids as otherwise their damage would be too low to consider progressing on high end raids (ssc and above).

For TBC shaman would only affect bloodlust on their group, not the entire raid. So you would cycle shaman in and out of the group to bloodlust certain op specs in say sunwell. Brutalis fight comes to mind here. You needed to stack shaman (so we had 3 resto two enhancement one elemental with only one enhancement being in the raid the other being subbed out and in as needed). As you needed to make sure you could beat enrage timers.

It was fun at the time, but im glad we made things like bloodlust raid wide and removed hybrid tax.

[Kezotar]

I'm willing to bet I'm far older than you. I've played this game since Vanilla opened its doors. I get the love for Vanilla and things in the past. I however feel if Vanilla was put out today I don't think it would be a long term viable success for Blizzard. I think people would get bored fairly quickly, I think they would demand balance/bug fixes and it would open a can of worms for people demanding TBC realms and WotLK realms and so on.

But to come in this thread with a new account call people ignorant and kids is really just pointless.

You talk about boring. Aren't you bored with your garrison that hasn't been updated? Aren't you bored with the raid that's been out in two whole patches and still is there without any new content?

I mean you have to be, unless you're a huge hypocrite. If you're not bored with that then how can you assume vanilla players will be?
Reliving the vanilla experience will last for way more than WoD.

[Kyanion]

The issue with Vanilla was that anything for Hybrids like Shaman Druids or paladins (and priests) was that their healing specs were the only viable ones in raids and the end game dungeons. Not even about competitive, it was the only ones worth taking. Your damage was so low compared that you would struggle to get into a pug or guild that wanted to do any form of high end dungeon/raid content.

Looking back at Vanilla, if you applied to a guild as a tanking paladin or druid, you would 9/10 times be told go to away. Then one lower end guild stuck in MC might let them in. It was a very rare thing as leather gear was really not optimised for it and the talents were not so good. Sure some people might still be able to play it but they were few and far between. Now if a vanilla server had used the pre TBC patch talents then it would not be so bad. As Shaman, Paladins Druids and priests all had viable alternative specs so they could do damage/tanking or healing respectively.

Hybrid tax in TBC was a real thing and sucked, but it was better than Vanillas setup by a long way. In TBC, enhancement shaman were taken as they provided serious DPS buffs for melee groups. Their DPS was also not so bad. totem twisting was a major thing and enhancement via shamanistic rage could keep it up. DPS druids were sub par but had some uses, and shadow priests were mana batteries. But you only took 1 or 2 of these hybrids as otherwise their damage would be too low to consider progressing on high end raids (ssc and above).

For TBC shaman would only affect bloodlust on their group, not the entire raid. So you would cycle shaman in and out of the group to bloodlust certain op specs in say sunwell. Brutalis fight comes to mind here. You needed to stack shaman (so we had 3 resto two enhancement one elemental with only one enhancement being in the raid the other being subbed out and in as needed). As you needed to make sure you could beat enrage timers.

It was fun at the time, but im glad we made things like bloodlust raid wide and removed hybrid tax.

Oh no doubt, I could get away with balance druid in any dungeon in Vanilla and I got to do it in some of the raids as the game went along. But I was one of the few balance druids that actually got to play as a non-healer. I know the hate my spec got along with shadow priests and ret pallies and so on. It is just one of the many reasons I think if Vanilla servers got opened by WoW people that never played in Vanilla that would try it out wouldn't stick or they would demand class balance and shit. Can of worms and all that.

The thing the pro-Vanilla/classic people need to keep in mind is you WANT people to try the game and stay there, you need more than just PS people and nostalgia people and the like. You want to get as many people playing as possible, but when some of that happens....bitching begins for balance or people will just stop.

[Kezotar]

Well thank god there is more than one difficulty in current WoW. I mean the early days of LFR was better in my eyes because some mechanics still mattered, people died quite often. Today it is quite the joke but it isn't for me to judge someone wanting to just SEE the content.

Thank god because you need a handicap in a game where even a inexperienced player could do the second hardest difficulty?
Yet there's LFR, Normal, heroic and mythic, yet you still pick LFR? Yeah let's thank god for your inability to even react to simple things that you have to have them removed or else you'd fail.

[Ratatosk]

The issue with Vanilla was that anything for Hybrids like Shaman Druids or paladins (and priests) was that their healing specs were the only viable ones in raids and the end game dungeons. Not even about competitive, it was the only ones worth taking. Your damage was so low compared that you would struggle to get into a pug or guild that wanted to do any form of high end dungeon/raid content.

Looking back at Vanilla, if you applied to a guild as a tanking paladin or druid, you would 9/10 times be told go to away. Then one lower end guild stuck in MC might let them in. It was a very rare thing as leather gear was really not optimised for it and the talents were not so good. Sure some people might still be able to play it but they were few and far between. Now if a vanilla server had used the pre TBC patch talents then it would not be so bad. As Shaman, Paladins Druids and priests all had viable alternative specs so they could do damage/tanking or healing respectively.

Hybrid tax in TBC was a real thing and sucked, but it was better than Vanillas setup by a long way. In TBC, enhancement shaman were taken as they provided serious DPS buffs for melee groups. Their DPS was also not so bad. totem twisting was a major thing and enhancement via shamanistic rage could keep it up. DPS druids were sub par but had some uses, and shadow priests were mana batteries. But you only took 1 or 2 of these hybrids as otherwise their damage would be too low to consider progressing on high end raids (ssc and above).

For TBC shaman would only affect bloodlust on their group, not the entire raid. So you would cycle shaman in and out of the group to bloodlust certain op specs in say sunwell. Brutalis fight comes to mind here. You needed to stack shaman (so we had 3 resto two enhancement one elemental with only one enhancement being in the raid the other being subbed out and in as needed). As you needed to make sure you could beat enrage timers.

It was fun at the time, but im glad we made things like bloodlust raid wide and removed hybrid tax.

And if you were in Midgard at the time, I was one of the mages benefiting from the BLs! Good times.

[Kyanion]

You talk about boring. Aren't you bored with your garrison that hasn't been updated? Aren't you bored with the raid that's been out in two whole patches and still is there without any new content?

I mean you have to be, unless you're a huge hypocrite. If you're not bored with that then how can you assume vanilla players will be?
Reliving the vanilla experience will last for way more than WoD.

Well keep in mind some of the raids over the years lasted a long long time, ICC was big offender but that was a really good raid so I think it got some leeway. Yes I am bored with my garrison, yes I am underwhelmed with things to do in the world. Mythic dungeons are a joke, timewalking is far too easy and don't even get me started on heroic dungeons being a complete waste of time. I don't really have a problem with the raids though, I feel those are done well enough (at least for mythic).

But WoD has been out a while now. Do I think a fresh Vanilla would keep people as long as WoD was around? I don't really know, I personally feel it wouldn't. I know I wouldn't bother with it, I can only speak for myself. Blizz has likely weighed the costs and thus far they have felt the same way on it for years. Maybe things will change, but I doubt it will be anytime soon. Certainly not before Legion or even shortly after.

[AeneasBK]

Playing doesn't mean raiding.
You can play WoW, I don't care. You shouldn't be able to raid unless you put time and effort. And tbh, you wouldn't be able to raid if it wasn't for LFR.

I raided uncompetitively for 5 or 6 years? Ever heard of social guilds? We cleared the content at our own pace, couldn't give a damn what others were doing.

We weren't the only guild in the game to operate like that either. You're talking nonsense on this topic.

[khalltusk]

And if you were in Midgard at the time, I was one of the mages benefiting from the BLs! Good times.

Which mage were you? I think we had PD Skel, and scratching my head for the names of the others its been so long. Yes I was enhancement Shaman on Khalltusk at the time class leader of my band of glorious little shamans.

[Kyanion]

Thank god because you need a handicap in a game where even a inexperienced player could do the second hardest difficulty?
Yet there's LFR, Normal, heroic and mythic, yet you still pick LFR? Yeah let's thank god for your inability to even react to simple things that you have to have them removed or else you'd fail.

I was responding to someone that was comparing vanilla to LFR raiding. I don't know about you but I'm a mythic raider and I've been doing the highest content available since Vanilla. I was doing the hardest content in Everquest. I raid, it is what I like. I think LFR is a fucking joke but I don't care, if some people want to go see the content then let them. When LFR was first released it wasn't THAT bad and has some use for taking alts in there because you could get okay enough gear.

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And if you were in Midgard at the time, I was one of the mages benefiting from the BLs! Good times.

heh yeah it was nice I got to be in the mage group as my balance druid. Damn BL was soooo good.

[Mosotti]

You make up some good points and it is one of the things I try and mention but get very little feedback from people that actually played there. I asked what bugs were on that game and got some mentioned. I asked if some specs didn't even function as they used to. And gearing is far easier than actual Vanilla because all the content is basically there including honor options.

I think on Nost's infographic from a few months ago people averaged about 10 days to level. That is because gear is easier, all the information is known and so on. And that is just an average, it means people that were serious about endgame were blazing through the content.

I only played on Nost PvE, because as I said, I considered the other one unplayable. I played only to level 40, because I just wanted to test it a little and see how it is compared to the one I was actually playing on. I can say that both were pretty good. None of the private servers I've played compare to the real retail though, they are all full of bugs, if you actually know after what to look.

Common bugs are:

- pets are pretty fucking retarded, all the servers I've played they didn't go on the boat / zepellin, except Nost, but that was not perfect either.
- most escort quests are fucked
- most mobs that have pets are fucked, those pets are for some reason yellow and don't usually react when you attack the master
- the kiting is fucked in groups, for example in retail if you pull one mob from a group, the whole group will follow for a significant distance, on the private servers the ones not attacked would return after like 5 meters, so it's extremely easy to clear those huge murloc / whatever camps
- some private servers have the kiting fucked completely
- NPCs don't react correctly, for example I kited Stiches to the SV rebel camp and those fuckers just stood there, while on "the other" server, they actually attacked it and killed it
- there are problems with aggro, aggro range, mobs stuck in trees, mobs misplaced, rares not having a loot table and lots of other things, like my preferred one, falling through the world and not being able to resurrect.

The only reason I played on these servers is because I liked the world much better before Cata, some of the zones are so weird and serene. After Cata every zone has some fucking battle going on lol

But these private servers don't even come close to the retail, again, if you know what to look for. Many people don't give a fuck about that, and I perfectly understand that.

[Jewsco]

You talk about boring. Aren't you bored with your garrison that hasn't been updated? Aren't you bored with the raid that's been out in two whole patches and still is there without any new content?

I mean you have to be, unless you're a huge hypocrite. If you're not bored with that then how can you assume vanilla players will be?
Reliving the vanilla experience will last for way more than WoD.

Yes I am and most are but here is the deal a new expansion and patches are coming. On a legacy server they are never ever coming. One is stuck with no new content forever. Look how much people complain about the current game and it's lack of new content what will people be like frozen forever in vanilla?