Erdogan poem: Turkey demands German action over 'obscene' satirist

[Huntermyth]

to all those people living outside Turkey :

please remember that there are another %50 that didn't and never will vote for him and living in the same country. we have our fair share of embarassment in a daily basis so please no more salt on our wounds

p.s : this piece of satire went a bit too far but i am completely fine with that. same applies to obama and putin and whatever too.

[ranzino]

The guy should be arrested for how bad his attempt at satire and comedy. Is this typical German humor or satire?

Erdogan was pissed about an earlier satire and called in our ambassador to Turkey because of it. the poem was somewhat the result.

[lonely zergling]

Well yeah.
Removing a law while someone is trying to make use of it is just.. Corrupt would be an understatement.

It will most likely not have any impact on this criminal case. Only if it gets somehow delayed by ~2 years. Which is very unlikely.

The problem is this law is old and useless and it requires the gouvernment to agree to start a investigation... thats not how it should work, the gouvernment should stay out of that stuff.

[Deleted]

I am german.

That being said, a couple of things:

Paragraph 103 IS retarded - it is from a time long past and our government decided to get rid of it, since the questionable acts are covered in the laws against insult.

The poem WAS a pure insult. The mistake many make in this regard is that this poem was INTENDED to be insulting and Böhmermann said REPEATEDLY that this is an example of what would NOT be allowed. Read: The song last week was satire and no one could say soemthing against it, but if i was to say: "insert poem here" this would be insulting and therefore a criminal act.

And you MUST consider this context!

Merkel gave her "ok" to legally prosecute the case of insult, which is, in a way, very elegant. We are a state of rights and we have separation of powers. It is not the place of the government to decide this case. So Erdogan comes crying to momma and says "he was mean, he was, punish him!!!" and she says: "well fuck it, we are a cosntitutional state, it is the judges place to decide if it was a criminal act or not. THIS is how it is supposed to work, Tayyip!"

I firmly believe the judge will laugh his ass off. If not, then this will be the moment where i lose faith. Up until now i can hardly believe how much of a ruckus this has caused. I mean, seriously...Tayyip? Seriously?

[lonely zergling]

The guy should be arrested for how bad his attempt at satire and comedy. Is this typical German humor or satire?

No this is not typical german humor. Its not even humor.

You have to see this "satire" in context, if you just look at the poem its just insulting yes. But if you look at the whole situation with erdogan whining about a satire song a week before this incident, you can see that this poem was created to show what would be a legitimate reason for erdogan to be pissed.

[Acidbaron]

All this will do is drum up more comedians to go after erdogan even more, easiest country leader to troll currently. Already saw a belgian satire show using the german bit and adding on top of it, as in him not hitting his wife, he's the one getting hit, him not fucking a sheep him being the one getting fucked by one and so on.

Not sure on what grounds he can be held responsible since i believe the german law regarding that is for officials insulting other political figures and i doubt he's the official german comedian on the payroll by the government. I can see why Merkel is allowing it to continue but i doubt it will turn into anything serious.

As i said early comedians are going to have a good source of easy comedy now with erdogan thinking he can censor comedians.

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Once again proving to the world that the Germans really have no sense of humour

I found it rather amusing but you have to understand german to get it.

[dd614]

What do you think would happen if I was, let's say, a US Talk Show host and said 'President Obama is the offspring off a retarded monkey and regularily coppulates with the corpses of dogs."? And not 'in my opinion'. State it as fact.

Nothing. The person will be ridiculed for being an idiot and probably ignored going forward, but not prosecuted.

German citizens should have the right to insult any world leader they want in any way they want. Freedom of speech is fundamental.

[Deleted]

Well the law will be changed. That paragraph is from times where they wanted to protect monarchs from insults. Nothing a modern country needs anymore - even though there are still "allied" countries led by "monarchs". Just shows how big the gap between national societies really is and how fundamental a different approach of integration is if we ever want to have a equal global society.

But since it has come to this, I really hope as many publicists will jump on the bandwagon and show that Erdogan lives in his own little world.

[Manabomb]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36013191




http://news.sky.com/story/1679356/me...ns-prosecution

Update: Merkel is allowing the prosecution to go through.

My god, Merkel is a fucking tyrant.

I guess when you don't live in America you can't satirize people without your chancellor allowing a foreign dignitary to press charges.

Not that America is all that great. But atleast our comedians can make fun of Putin or Jinping.

[GennGreymane]

No, a tyrant would be a leader that applies laws only when (s)he feels like it.
If you want to rant, rant about the law. Not the person following it.

Our comedians can also make fun of politicians.
There is a line between "making fun of" and slander.

And no matter how much I hate Erdogan, that guy really crossed the line.

We do have libel, but against public officials there is a higher threshold. We prefer our politicians to be thick skinned and not overly sensitive like Erdogan. How weak is he that this foreigner hurt him so.

[Slant]

to all those people living outside Turkey :

please remember that there are another %50 that didn't and never will vote for him and living in the same country. we have our fair share of embarassment in a daily basis so please no more salt on our wounds

p.s : this piece of satire went a bit too far but i am completely fine with that. same applies to obama and putin and whatever too.

We know, don't worry. All the critique aimed at "Turkey" in politics really is just aimed at "Erdogan", only half of us don't know how to spell his name and the other half is from the US and doesn't even know who he is exactly.

*runs from the banhammer*

Edit: On a more serious note: I'd like to remind everyone that just because something goes to trial doesn't mean it's an automatic guilty verdict. In my opinion Merkel appeased Erdogan diplomatically by agreeing to this while everyone involved knows this has good chances of dying a slow meaningless death in some dusty courtroom with 2 journalists as witnesses, cos nobody gives a fuck about it in 1 year. Especially since there seem to be plans to get rid of the law anyway... I really don't think this will lead to anything but further embarassment to Erdogan.

[owbu]

We prefer our politicians to be thick skinned and not overly sensitive like Erdogan.

Seein how popular "I will SUE them all!" Trump is, I am not quite sure if the rest of your country agrees with you there :>
Lots politicians seem to start crying every time a journalist asks them an actual question.

But I agree, American laws are much better regarding free speech in generall.

I am glad to see that law go. I can see it having its place in the 1950s, where our official foreign policy needed to be saying sorry as loud as we can, but it just does not fit into todays german society anymore. Now we just need to get rid of all those "you cant read/display Nazi stuff" nonsense, which only makes those ideas special, and we can go on with our lifes.

My god, Merkel is a fucking tyrant.

While I disagree with Merkels reaction here (she should just have ignored the whole thing and it wouldnt have become political at all), her behaviour was the opposite of tyrannical. What she said was, that in a state with checks and balances, the iudislative, not her, gets to decide if someone has broken the law or not. And then went on to say that its the executive's job to decide wether or not laws are still appropriate or not in the future, which is why her goverment will remove the law going forward. Nothing tyrannical to see here. Just her typical somewhat timid "playing it safe" routine.

[GennGreymane]

Seein how popular "I will SUE them all!" Trump is, I am not quite sure if the rest of your country agrees with you there :>
Lots politicians seem to start crying every time a journalist asks them an actual question.

But I agree, American laws are much better regarding free speech in generall.

I am glad to see that law go. I can see it having its place in the 1950s, where our official foreign policy needed to be saying sorry as loud as we can, but it just does not fit into todays german society anymore. Now we just need to get rid of all those "you cant read/display Nazi stuff" nonsense, which only makes those ideas special, and we can go on with our lifes.

Everyone has access to libel, its harder for more public figures as they avail themselves in the public all the time. But everyone can do it.

[BuckSparkles]

What a weak leader.

Prosecuting one of your own citizens to appease some other nation over comedy.

[Muis]

Erdogan is a fucking piece of shit and punishing this German satirist is pathetic.

[Slant]

While I disagree with Merkels reaction here (she should just have ignored the whole thing and it wouldnt have become political at all), her behaviour was the opposite of tyrannical. What she said was, that in a state with checks and balances, the iudislative, not her, gets to decide if someone has broken the law or not. And then went on to say that its the executive's job to decide wether or not laws are still appropriate or not in the future, which is why her goverment will remove the law going forward. Nothing tyrannical to see here. Just her typical somewhat timid "playing it safe" routine.

Actually, it's smarter than you think it is. As I pointed out earlier, she's having a diplomatic win, Erdogan owes her for this, while at the same time hinting at the judges what's going to happen with the law in the future. And trust me, judges notice these things. They usually don't rule guilty in laws that are just about to get removed. This statement by her was phrased very purposefully and has the same effect as if she rejected it, with the added bonus that Erdogan can't blame her, in fact may even owe her a diplomatic favour.

Politically, this is a good demonstration why she's the powerhouse that she is. People often mistake her cunning for passivity, but it's really not.

[Notter]

Politically, this is a good demonstration why she's the powerhouse that she is. People often mistake her cunning for passivity, but it's really not.

No... she's just being Naive.
I don't get why your're defending Erdogan and Merkel here. they are both acting low lowlifes.

Do i need to remind you that just not too long ago Turkey black mailed Europe, so they won't "open the gates" for the immigrants into the rest of Europe.
Dealing with Turkey's shit government never ends in a "win".

[Deleted]

Actually, it's smarter than you think it is. As I pointed out earlier, she's having a diplomatic win, Erdogan owes her for this, while at the same time hinting at the judges what's going to happen with the law in the future. And trust me, judges notice these things. They usually don't rule guilty in laws that are just about to get removed. This statement by her was phrased very purposefully and has the same effect as if she rejected it, with the added bonus that Erdogan can't blame her, in fact may even owe her a diplomatic favour.

Politically, this is a good demonstration why she's the powerhouse that she is. People often mistake her cunning for passivity, but it's really not.

Oh look Slant defending Merkel........that's a new one.

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No... she's just being Naive.
I don't get why your're defending Erdogan and Merkel here. they are both acting low lowlifes.

Do i need to remind you that just not too long ago Turkey black mailed Europe, so they won't "open the gates" for the immigrants into the rest of Europe.
Dealing with Turkey's shit government never ends in a "win".

He likes everything Merkel likes, he agrees with everything Merkel agrees with as long as we can get millions of migrants.

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No, a tyrant would be a leader that applies laws only when (s)he feels like it.
If you want to rant, rant about the law. Not the person following it.

Our comedians can also make fun of politicians.
There is a line between "making fun of" and slander.

And no matter how much I hate Erdogan, that guy really crossed the line.

Read the law before you open your mouth. Merkel didn't have to do anything. There is already a law suit going on as well.

The comedians intention was to show Erdogan the difference between satire and insults. This was about a case 2 weeks ago when Erdogan complained about satire in Germany.

Seriously people, don't talk about things you know shit abiout.

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No, a tyrant would be a leader that applies laws only when (s)he feels like it.
If you want to rant, rant about the law. Not the person following it.

Our comedians can also make fun of politicians.
There is a line between "making fun of" and slander.

And no matter how much I hate Erdogan, that guy really crossed the line.

Read the law before you open your mouth. Merkel didn't have to do anything. There is already a law suit going on as well.

The comedians intention was to show Erdogan the difference between satire and insults. This was about a case 2 weeks ago when Erdogan complained about satire in Germany.

Seriously people, don't talk about things you know shit abiout.

- - - Updated - - -

No, a tyrant would be a leader that applies laws only when (s)he feels like it.
If you want to rant, rant about the law. Not the person following it.

Our comedians can also make fun of politicians.
There is a line between "making fun of" and slander.

And no matter how much I hate Erdogan, that guy really crossed the line.

Read the law before you open your mouth. Merkel didn't have to do anything. There is already a law suit going on as well.

The comedians intention was to show Erdogan the difference between satire and insults. This was about a case 2 weeks ago when Erdogan complained about satire in Germany.

Seriously people, don't talk about things you know shit abiout.

[Deleted]

erdogan is a goat fucker there I said it arrest me now officer, once she is done sucking obamas dick she can finish off erdogan.

[owbu]

Actually, it's smarter than you think it is. As I pointed out earlier, she's having a diplomatic win, Erdogan owes her for this, while at the same time hinting at the judges what's going to happen with the law in the future. And trust me, judges notice these things. They usually don't rule guilty in laws that are just about to get removed. This statement by her was phrased very purposefully and has the same effect as if she rejected it, with the added bonus that Erdogan can't blame her, in fact may even owe her a diplomatic favour.

I am sure this is all very clever diplomatic manouvering, and I know we rely on Erdogan right now to not have to "schaffen das" anymore - so I am in no way saying that she is stupid. I think what she is doing is highly logical. Its just that maybe 10% of the population follow politics enough/have enough of an education to actually understand such maneuvers. To the rest Merkel just told the prosecution to go prosecute him, because she likes/needs Edogan too much. Its not weakness, but to a lot of people it looks like weakness.
So yes, I agree that she just did the right thing. I also dont see him actually sentenced to anything. But In the eyes of the AfD crowd, she wont get any credit for that. For that she would have needed a line in the sand, fuck off erdogan kind of statement.
I guess if people just love you for 12 years, its hard to get back into the pandering to the masses kind of thinking

Read the law before you open your mouth. Merkel didn't have to do anything. There is already a law suit going on as well.

There was private libel lawsuits already, but the prosecuter wanted to prosecute Böhmermann as well. Which under this law he was only allowed to do if Merkel said yes. In a democracy it shouldnt be the executives decision if someone can be prosecuted or not ever. Thats what Merkel believes in. So she did not block the prosecutor from doing his job, while at the same time saying that she will do her job (removing this stupid law). Now its the judges job to say: AHAHA no. And then we can all go home happy. Except for Erdogan. He will still be a giant insecure baby.