No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[CheeseSandwich]

Again though, how is it shady at all to have a flying mount in the collectors edition? It was still usable in areas of the game. They did not state "this is a flying mount for WoD only," they gave a mount that can fly in the game, that's it. It was still usable in game and not shady at all. I appreciate the massive amount of effort you are going to trying to contradict me or make my posts be irrelevant, but the make no sense. You are trying to use my arguement in a way that does not support your view. A DH having its damage by how much you pay the game is not a design decision from devs, that is a decision to milk people for money in a pay to play game. In a game where all you pay is sub fees and xpac costs, that would be a shady affair indeed. Removal of flight in an attempt to further their (Blizz devs) ideals for the game in an attempt to how they envision the game and give a rewarding gameplay experience that conforms to their ideals is design. Did it fail? To many players, yes it did. To others they enjoyed it. To others still, they just didn't care one way or the other.

Because, in an analogy you might understand, it is like a burger chain promoting a burger that as an extra special sauce that only tastes better on burgers you bought a year ago. The burger is still usable, but to fully enjoy it as advertised you have to go back a year or two to get the full flavour, or maybe wait a while and you might get the sauce again. Also, I was giving this burger chain 15 bucks a month to come up with new food, and 60 bucks everytime they opened a new restaurant.

Waffling on the decision to reinstate flying in an expac while selling flying mounts that relate to that expac is also a decision to milk people for money. Stretching out the return of flying until the end of the expac could also be seen as milking people for money.

Other aspects of the game, by vast majority, failed, yet Blizz chose to continue to support them. Flying, which had an obvious, overwhelming majority support, gets no dev time at all. How is ignoring the wants of your consumers good game design?

As far as the 6.1 debacle, I will revise my previous post. Stating flying would be in at that time and then not having it ready or going with a different design does not make them shady, it just makes them liars. Before you say "isn't that the same thing!?" Quite honestly, no it's not. I can lie to your face and not be shady about it. At the same time, I could continue dodging your questions about what I did last night and acting completely guilty or off kilter, and that would be shady.

Do you honestly expect me to take you seriously when you post things like this.

[Demoneq]

As to the "shady" argument: I disagree that it was shady. I would agree that their public inability to make up their collective mind about it was embarrassing to watch. I would agree that it was incompetent. Do I think it was some scheme to trick people? No, I don't. I think it was a massive collective fuck-up on the part of a very large corporation with a design team that lacked anything that appeared to be leadership. That happens although it shouldn't.

I think at this point, whether it was "just" a huge fuck up on blizzard's part, or they intentionally deceived players is somewhat irrelevant: end result is the same, their word can't be trusted, and that's why anyone who wants flight shouldn't give them their money, unless it's actually in a way they (the player in question) consider it acceptable, even if it means never.
Vote with your wallet basically, because otherwise you might never see it (well, you might still, but at least you won't waste your money for falsely advertised* and unenjoyable for you product).

*Which in the end it was, no matter which reasons on blizzard's part led to it.

[SirCowdog]

I think at this point, whether it was "just" a huge fuck up on blizzard's part, or they intentionally deceived players is somewhat irrelevant: end result is the same, their word can't be trusted, and that's why anyone who wants flight shouldn't give them their money, unless it's actually in a way they (the player in question) consider it acceptable, even if it means never.
Vote with your wallet basically, because otherwise you might never see it (well, you might still, but at least you won't waste your money for falsely advertised* and unenjoyable for you product).

*Which in the end it was, no matter which reasons on blizzard's part led to it.

To further expand on the point you just made: At what point does it stop being OK for Blizzard to continue to screw up? When does it stop being an honest mistake, and starts being a pattern of behavior that Blizzard is covering up for? Furthermore, even if it was honest screw ups, why is it ok for them to get away with charging more for the expansion while screwing it up?

And all this is followed by a stonewall approach to flight for Legion. Meanwhile they're busily hyping and testing every other aspect of the game.

These are not the actions of a dev team I want to trust or give money to.

[Demoneq]

Well, I'm not the person to ask, since I very much agree with you. If I recall, I even once posted (and still stick by it) that they should give everyone who bought WoD (no matter how long were they subbed) at the very least either a partial refund (since there's no way it was worth its full price) or a hefty discount on Legion (not to mention Legion's price should be lower than WoD's, not the same or higher) and maybe even a sub discount for as long as they were they subbed during WoD (regardless if they used RL money or gold to buy gametime).

And/or if they really go through with no flying (allowing it with/after last patch counts pretty much as no flying too), refund all the flying mounts from the store. No, I don't really think it's not going to happen, but that's how I see it, and that's why if I buy Legion at all, it won't be before its discounted, they won't give me a refund/discount, I'll sort of make my own.

Until then, they are getting no money from me. Not just for anything WoW, but at all*. I guess they like it that way, with how they continue to piss off their customers. /shrug

*I haven't bought Legacy of the Void, nor Overwatch (well, shooters aren't my thing, but I wouldn't even if they were), and have no intent to as things look.

[Mafic]

This mess started in April of 2014. This is not a series of accidents or honest mistakes. This was machiavellian to the core and shady with some twisted truths and lies thrown in trying to brute force flying out of the game.

The sheer backlash caused Blizzard to fumble around but that was after the damage was done.

[Nfinitii]

I'm cool with no flying.

But for those who do want it idk y blizzard doesn't make natural barriers to reduce flying. Like increase the aggro radius of ur flying, u want to land in the middle of a camp or base u know everything sees u, y not just make everything aggro. These fortresses have watch towers ur telling me they don't have ways to shoot down flyers?

[quras]

I'm cool with no flying.

But for those who do want it idk y blizzard doesn't make natural barriers to reduce flying. Like increase the aggro radius of ur flying, u want to land in the middle of a camp or base u know everything sees u, y not just make everything aggro. These fortresses have watch towers ur telling me they don't have ways to shoot down flyers?

That requires a bit of extra thinking and work and when you are cutting corners the way blizzard is doing it. That extra work just isn't going to happen.

Reduce work, increase product price, stretch out limited content (facebooks games etc...) Hinder gamers ability to get to the few places faster in a rat maze, cluster "F"ed up world.

Thats WoD and legion seems to be following that same boat for the same reasons. This whole no flying thing is just a catalyst to other problems but it's still a problem with how blizzard is implementing it.

[Nfinitii]

That requires a bit of extra thinking and work and when you are cutting corners the way blizzard is doing it. That extra work just isn't going to happen.

Reduce work, increase product price, stretch out limited content (facebooks games etc...) Hinder gamers ability to get to the few places faster in a rat maze, cluster "F"ed up world.

Thats WoD and legion seems to be following that same boat for the same reasons. This whole no flying thing is just a catalyst to other problems but it's still a problem with how blizzard is implementing it.

It takes extra time to implement the achievement, but I'm pretty sure no matter what blizzard does ppl will complain about what blizzard does to flying. I'm sure they wish they nvr put flying in. But I feel there r bigger issues to complain about other than flying. I hope legion does well but I'm very skeptical.

[Maneo]

It takes extra time to implement the achievement, but I'm pretty sure no matter what blizzard does ppl will complain about what blizzard does to flying.

Really you think so? I mean if they came out today and said it would be available at max level upon completing the achievement in 7.0 you don't think it would all die down?

I can't imagine to many people would be upset, unless of course the meta was full of a bunch of rep grinds.

I'm sure they wish they nvr put flying in.

It is funny though personal flight is the one original thing done by Blizzard in WoW. Everything else was pirated and/or improved upon in other games...

Either way you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

But I feel there r bigger issues to complain about other than flying. I hope legion does well but I'm very skeptical.

I am concerned that Legion is just going to be a replay of WoD. They are jerking us around w/flight again (silence), and hey we even have our garrison <cough> I mean Class Order Hall command table.

Saddly it seems as though Blizzard is either creatively/intellectually bankrupt, lazy, or the powers at be on high are limiting them... or maybe some combination of those things. Either way Blizzard seems intent on doing as little as they can possibly get away w/in regards to WoW.

[Fabinas]

I don't care if flying is going to be implemented after 7.0. I'll probably do the achievement meta on my main cause i am an achi whore. But judging from WoD, it will probably be implemented on Legion's last content patch.

[Maneo]

I don't care if flying is going to be implemented after 7.0. I'll probably do the achievement meta on my main cause i am an achi whore. But judging from WoD, it will probably be implemented on Legion's last content patch.

That is what many of of are afraid of.

It is only reasonable if we are going to do a meta then it is only fair and reasonable to ask WHEN we will see the reward.

[Mafic]

That is what many of of are afraid of.

It is only reasonable if we are going to do a meta then it is only fair and reasonable to ask WHEN we will see the reward.

Not worried about the when part because it is a given it will be after the first patch. First patch content is usually tested on during beta anyways and often content that didn't make release is also pushed to the first patch. With no way to test flying currently in the alpha or even the achievement the launch or first patch seems really sketchy.

Since a lot of people keep repeating that they haven't done a lot of work on achievements for Legion I did some digging. What I found was that Blizz has put in 115 Legion achievements so far.

http://legion.wowhead.com/achievements?filter=12;7;0

They even have the 2016 Winter Veil achievement in place already.

http://legion.wowhead.com/achievemen...s-cold-in-here

All the exploration achievements for the Legion zones are in Legion alpha already.

http://legion.wowhead.com/achievemen...explore-azsuna
http://legion.wowhead.com/achievemen...e-highmountain
http://legion.wowhead.com/achievemen...lore-stormheim
http://legion.wowhead.com/achievemen...xplore-suramar
http://legion.wowhead.com/achievemen...lore-valsharah

Basically, Blizz is doubling down the stupid if they continue this same approach as they did with WoD regarding flight.

[Connll]

Basically, Blizz is doubling down the stupid if they continue this same approach as they did with WoD regarding flight.

I have read in a few places that WoW isn´t bringing the most income to Blizzard nowadays. That Hearthstone and HoTS are far more lucrative, while requiring FAR less investment to make. So Blizzard is essentially labeled WoW as "low priority", to receive the minimum investment possible to remain profitable, or, of that fails, to be changed into a F2P. That would explain the dev´s policies and decisions that led to WoD´s existence.

Taken at face value, pure hogwash.

But when I see the way the WoW devs are treating Legion, sometimes I wonder if the above is actually true...

[Nfinitii]

Really you think so? I mean if they came out today and said it would be available at max level upon completing the achievement in 7.0 you don't think it would all die down?

I can't imagine to many people would be upset, unless of course the meta was full of a bunch of rep grinds.



It is funny though personal flight is the one original thing done by Blizzard in WoW. Everything else was pirated and/or improved upon in other games...

Either way you can't put the genie back in the bottle.



I am concerned that Legion is just going to be a replay of WoD. They are jerking us around w/flight again (silence), and hey we even have our garrison <cough> I mean Class Order Hall command table.

Saddly it seems as though Blizzard is either creatively/intellectually bankrupt, lazy, or the powers at be on high are limiting them... or maybe some combination of those things. Either way Blizzard seems intent on doing as little as they can possibly get away w/in regards to WoW.

The only way I think ppl will not complain about flying is if u hit max lvl and pay gold and u can fly. Putting behind an achievement even from the start ppl will just say y do I need to do all this crap. Or if there r mechanics to deter flying ppl will complain about that. Blizzard tried to remove flying in wod, which was one of the few things I felt would have been good about wod if they stuck to their guns.

Legion looks promising but I'm still skeptical, and I hear that garrisons 2.0 u don't actually have to do(hopefully) beside lfr, garrisons were one of the worst features to date imo. The new pvp system sounds promising.

I don't think blizzard is being lazy, I feel it has something to do with the wow community is so negative and toxic towards wow (it's hard to be passionate towards something when it so hated), trying to make content that stays relevant for longer (it gets consumed far quicker than in the past) and trying to cater to too many players.

Look at cata, the heroics imo were amazing but I knew a lot of ppl who quit b/c it was too hard for them. Now things r so stupidly accessible, u can get into lfr w/o touching a single heroic from the beginning of wod. Nothing feels epic anymore, everyone has legendaries, gear isn't exciting anymore.

[Jaylock]

Awesome, more leading people on.
This whole lack of information thing hasn't been cute for many many years. I wouldn't care if they were just like "Flying will be back for the last patch of the expansion." or even "No flying period" would be better. Stringing people along with "Eventually" and "at a future point" is a bad business practice for a company to do with any product, but when a company is charging you money for each step in that "Eventually", it becomes shady as hell.

They are expecting people to sub, and stay subbed, but refuse to give any information about something that as WoD already showed will cost them money/players, until they have squeezed out every drop of money and patience that we allow them.

@Zenotetsuken

Get over yourself. Flying has ruined the game, and it should have never been implemented in the first place. They already said what it does to the gameplay, and how it trivilizes it. Lets just quit the whining and move on, at least you can work on the achievement to get it eventually.

[Demoneq]

I don't think blizzard is being lazy, I feel it has something to do with the wow community is so negative and toxic towards wow

After how blizzard screwed up with WoD, they got it coming. Every. Little. Bit.

[Delekii]

@Zenotetsuken

Get over yourself. Flying has ruined the game, and it should have never been implemented in the first place. They already said what it does to the gameplay, and how it trivilizes it. Lets just quit the whining and move on, at least you can work on the achievement to get it eventually.

You're wrong.

[Nfinitii]

After how blizzard screwed up with WoD, they got it coming. Every. Little. Bit.

It's always been like that, yes things r at their worst now but in wotlk, bc was better, in cata, wotlk was better etc. it's really hard to work on something when the player base is so negative and don't give proper feed back. Wow is still the strongest mmo out there, could be swtor, which was launched too early and buggy and ppl were waiting around for a Jesus patch since launch for several months.

[Demoneq]

It's always been like that, yes things r at their worst now but in wotlk, bc was better, in cata, wotlk was better etc.

Not according to me, I never did that. Hell, Mists of Pandaria was the best expansion so far, as far as I'm concerned, and it definitely isn't the oldest one.
(it'd rival with WotLK I suppose, in terms of how much fun I had during it, but Cataclysm wasn't better than MoP, nor TBC than WotLK, for me)

[quras]

@Zenotetsuken

Get over yourself. Flying has ruined the game, and it should have never been implemented in the first place. They already said what it does to the gameplay, and how it trivilizes it. Lets just quit the whining and move on, at least you can work on the achievement to get it eventually.

TBC and LK proves you wrong. Flying is just a scapegoat for blizzard and you apparently. Those expansions couldn't be as good as they were if flying was so bad for the game.

Cataclysm had some major problems but flying wasn't one of them even having it so early.

The problems with MoP and so much more so in WoD we're not helped because people were grounded. Flying just isn't the problem you or blizzard claims it is.