Resto Druid - Legion Talents

[theburned]

I still don't see why a talent should be judged on grounds of a setbonus making it worthwhile. It's going to be garbage for most part of the expansion. And even for the part where it's "competitive" due 4T19, it always is subject to damage patterns actually allowing us to adequately use it.


You don't go around reducing tank self defense CD's in strength, go to all other healing specs and nerf their tank CD's, and leave one class with an option to get a disproportionally strong tank CD. Either it's going to trivialize stuff because it provides utility no one else has access to, or it requires druid to cheat some mechanics, if the tankdamage is tuned according to Stonebark, or it's entirely meaningless, because you survive anyway. To me, that's completely inconsistent design.


Anyway, I've seen Tiberria suggesting swapping Abundance and Germination on the alpha boards, and definitely agree with that. The problem with that though is, as Kriellya adequately describes, that the only talent actually competing with Abundance is Prosperity without synergy.

I am perfectly fine with prosperity having tier synergy first tier, as long as we can convince blizzard to make a plan to buff it slightly for the next tier, something along the lines of 2 charges reduce recharge timer by 5 seconds (or whatever time seems reasonable.)

As for germination being moved to ToL/sotf tier, it doesnt seem like too bad of an idea. The 3 seconds I dont really see that being the correct throughput increase, considering I will be aiming for 18-20 sec (rank 3-5 persistence).
Abundance it clearly fits better for level 15 tier, has very weird synergy with germination (considering germination reduces the need to cast HT while increasing rejuv uptime.) And also it feels like the talent would need to have no cap to even be remotely considered, so that you need 12.5 (13) rejuvs up for instant cast HT. Though I am a bit uncertain of wheter that puts the talent at totally best or still not useful. Would be fun to see, but in the end the talent needs a redesign.

[Nythiz]

Another point to consider is that not every talent needs to be good for Raiding.

We have a lot of shitty talents that need addressing, but I think a lot of people in this topic in particular are tunnel-visioned on raiding situations with their talents.

A talent like Stonebark is quite "meh". But there are plenty of situations where it would become preferable to the other 2, such as:

a) A lot of PvP situations. In arena having a 33% cooldown reduction on ironbark can be the difference between losing and winning a match. The other 2 talents in this particular tier are not as interresting. Maybe flourish has some nice niche uses (not sure how it interacts with LoS and people being out of range).
b) In small content where mana is not an issue and a lot of the damage is focused on a single target. I could see Ironbark being the preferable option in certain Mythic+ situations where the group doesn't take much damage, but the tank gets hammered.

The T15 tree is another example where the choice might be very situation and group dependent.
Currently in PvP arena gameplay SotF is a very competetive option, as it gives you a somewhat "on demand" access to burst healing that resto druids tend to lack compared to the other healers. Having the flexibility of Prosperity on top of that might be a very solid choice. Like I said earlier, it's not purely about the extra charge at the start of the fight, but also about the, often overlooked, advantage of keeping the cooldown rolling even though you don't use the skill on cooldown.

Same goes for cultivation. Maybe a shitty raiding choice. But I wouldn't be surprised if this would be the go to option for PvP and certain PvE scenarios where you can't stack and you don't need tranq more than once per 3 minutes.

Abundance is the only real rubbish talent in there (even though some small gut feeling of mine, still says it has a very niche use somewhere). And I'm not sure if tuning can ever fix that. Regrowths and HT aren't used often enough where this turns to be very solid.
It does contain some potential synergies with Germination (if that counts), Cultivation (if that counts; doubt it) and Moment of Clarity; but even then it'll be meh.

[theburned]

Another point to consider is that not every talent needs to be good for Raiding.

We have a lot of shitty talents that need addressing, but I think a lot of people in this topic in particular are tunnel-visioned on raiding situations with their talents.

A talent like Stonebark is quite "meh". But there are plenty of situations where it would become preferable to the other 2, such as:

a) A lot of PvP situations. In arena having a 33% cooldown reduction on ironbark can be the difference between losing and winning a match. The other 2 talents in this particular tier are not as interresting. Maybe flourish has some nice niche uses (not sure how it interacts with LoS and people being out of range).
b) In small content where mana is not an issue and a lot of the damage is focused on a single target. I could see Ironbark being the preferable option in certain Mythic+ situations where the group doesn't take much damage, but the tank gets hammered.

The T15 tree is another example where the choice might be very situation and group dependent.
Currently in PvP arena gameplay SotF is a very competetive option, as it gives you a somewhat "on demand" access to burst healing that resto druids tend to lack compared to the other healers. Having the flexibility of Prosperity on top of that might be a very solid choice. Like I said earlier, it's not purely about the extra charge at the start of the fight, but also about the, often overlooked, advantage of keeping the cooldown rolling even though you don't use the skill on cooldown.

Same goes for cultivation. Maybe a shitty raiding choice. But I wouldn't be surprised if this would be the go to option for PvP and certain PvE scenarios where you can't stack and you don't need tranq more than once per 3 minutes.

Abundance is the only real rubbish talent in there (even though some small gut feeling of mine, still says it has a very niche use somewhere). And I'm not sure if tuning can ever fix that. Regrowths and HT aren't used often enough where this turns to be very solid.
It does contain some potential synergies with Germination (if that counts), Cultivation (if that counts; doubt it) and Moment of Clarity; but even then it'll be meh.

a) make it a pvp talent then, not a specc talent.
b) I tried it in a level 3 mythic+ dungeon because stream decided that tank should play brewmaster, after progressing for 20-25 minutes on the first boss, I came to the conclusion that even with the low outgoing party damage, flourish would be about the same at keeping the tank alive while, also allowing me to heal the rest of the group better. Ironbark does the job fine by itself, and the talent doesnt boost it enough to ever be worth it.

As for prosperity the charge system doesn't help that much as you pair every 2nd combo with flourish, there was also some time during the spider boss where I think it could've worked because it would allow me to sotf my first WG after spider drops, aswell as during the flourish one on the winds, but I decided against it because the focused healing from germination on both debuffs and tanks felt a lot more important. So to me it sounds a lot like too bad of a talent until we get 4p, at which point it will probably the most potent option, altough might not be the best at all times.

Cultivation is one of the 2 balanced talents in the tier, it gives healing to the right people and quite a lot of healing, at the expense of low uptime, but it gives mastery stacks when you want it, on the people that need it. Inner peace is the talent that needs consideration.

Abundance, it does not synergize with germination, germination actually makes the talent worse, as 5 rejuvs will usually be up eitherway, 2 rejuvs means that instead of casting 1 rejuv + 1 HT on a target you will cast 2 rejuvs, which in the end makes you use less HT, and the talent affecting less spells, also I am already at around 30-40% crit so additional crit on the talent is somewhere between 10-0% gain, which is very low to non-exsistant. It does have mastery synergy with cultivation, due to most of the time you would use HT, you would cast rejuv - HT, not that it matters the talent still stands no chance against basically any other talent in our entire tree.

[stormgust]

a) A lot of PvP situations.

That's what the PvP talent tree is for though.

b) In small content where mana is not an issue and a lot of the damage is focused on a single target. I could see Ironbark being the preferable option in certain Mythic+ situations where the group doesn't take much damage, but the tank gets hammered.

You won't need the damage reduction more often than what other healing specs have them available, whence the CD reduction seems rather meaningless. But then extending e.g. a 200% reju or a CW is going to be a better option, which is as readily available, at stricly more flexible to use (e.g. extending WG alongside CW).

The T15 tree is another example where the choice might be very situation and group dependent. Currently in PvP arena gameplay SotF is a very competetive option, as it gives you a somewhat "on demand" access to burst healing that resto druids tend to lack compared to the other healers.

For PvE this is a non-argument though, because you'd only ever use SotF on WG, and whence you need 4T19 for this to work out. If you don't need it for it's burst potential, Germination is a more flexible and consistent option, without uptime restriction, if you really needed it for its burst potential: Tranq, ToL, Tranq via Inner Peace has you covered for three minutes. Not that you need that argument, because in small groups you are more likely to stack mastery to begin with, and whence you pick Germination anyway.

Same goes for cultivation. Maybe a shitty raiding choice. But I wouldn't be surprised if this would be the go to option for PvP and certain PvE scenarios where you can't stack and you don't need tranq more than once per 3 minutes.

While I'm not quite sure wether it's really contribute meaningful healing in raids, it definitely has a chance to do just that. Also, I'm to lazy to check, but was Cultivation even part of the discussion on the last pages?

[Tiberria]

Anyway, I've seen Tiberria suggesting swapping Abundance and Germination on the alpha boards, and definitely agree with that. The problem with that though is, as Kriellya adequately describes, that the only talent actually competing with Abundance is Prosperity without synergy.

This is not necessarily true. If it really ended up being Abundance vs Cenarion Ward vs Prosperity for T15, you would have 3 distinct uses for the talents.

- Abundance would be a reasonable option when you are assigned to/want to tank heal or focus heal 1-3 targets. You would obviously pair it with Germination (if Germination competed with Incarn/SoTF), and would have enough Rejuvs out on those targets that HT becomes a viable filler for subsequent tank healing when you max out HoT applications and with the Abundance buff (plus the mastery gain). You'd probably be looking at close to a GCD cap HT cast time with 6 Rejuvs active.

- CW would be a better general purpose talent, or talent when you aren't necessarily hard turret tank healing, but want a short cooldown emergency button (somewhat similar to the niche Nature's Swiftness fills on live).

- Prosperity would add more flexibility, have solid synergy in a build with SoTF, and be the superior AoE/raid healing talent with 4 piece. Plus, when you aren't giving up Germination to get it and instead are giving up CW (fairly niche and can be tricky to use properly) and Abundance (useless if you don't need subsequent direct healing over and about HoTs on single targets), taking it for the extra flexibility is not as big of a loss.

[stormgust]

- Abundance would be a reasonable option when you are assigned to/want to tank heal or focus heal 1-3 targets. You would obviously pair it with Germination (if Germination competed with Incarn/SoTF), and would have enough Rejuvs out on those targets that HT becomes a viable filler for subsequent tank healing when you max out HoT applications and with the Abundance buff (plus the mastery gain). You'd probably be looking at close to a GCD cap HT cast time with 6 Rejuvs active.

Talents which heavily rely on other talents to work out are bad design, as they eliminate choice and could just be rolled into eachother. Also, the trigger condition makes it more than niche: If the additional two targets do not require healing, this talent get's you nothing, you could just use those saved GCD's to cast HT anyway. If on the other hand, you want those additional rejus, you - depending on how many reju's you actually have roling - get about 1-2 additional healing touches in the same time intervall. Really, moving it to another tier does not fix anything with the trigger condition being absurd (and you cannot realistically lower it, without simultaneously having this talent beat CW/Prosperity)

- Prosperity would add more flexibility,

It only adds flexibility to SotF, it really doesn't to SM, because an independently running CW falls into a similar niche.

have solid synergy in a build with SoTF, and be the superior AoE/raid healing talent with 4 piece.

Same as Abundance, if a talent neccesarily requires another talent (or setbonus) just roll it into that one. It's absurd that it doesn't offer much benefit of it's own, yet also will never be able to do have a benefit of its own, due to the excessive synergy with other mechanics. It's even worse, if all those synergies do, is effectively removing the ability from ever be used in the way, it originally was intended to be used.

Plus, when you aren't giving up Germination to get it and instead are giving up CW (fairly niche and can be tricky to use properly) and Abundance (useless if you don't need subsequent direct healing over and about HoTs on single targets), taking it for the extra flexibility is not as big of a loss.

As soon as you space those double SotF boosted WG's 10s apart, question is going to be, wether two WG's with one additional HoT stack wouldn't be the superior option, as that wouldn't require two talent points. For high mastery/5man dungeons the later option would win, as for raidhealing - as soon as you have plenty of rejus outgoing in addition to double SotF boosted WG, Germination/Abundance should come out ahead. It really just leaves a damage pattern, where all you need is a SotF boosted WG, but that just feels like it could be trivially covered by all passive healing going around anyway. The problem here entirely is, that one combination, either Germ/Abundance or SotF/Prosp, is going to be significantly more flexible than the other (more cases where it has a better performance), while even in the case where the other option performs better, the difference isn't too large (thus you'd only ever pick it where this case is predominant).

[Tiberria]

Our 4 piece has been changed to - Wild Growth has a 30% chance to reset the cooldown on Swiftmend

I get that the interaction between 4 piece/Prosperity/Soul of the Forest, etc would have been ridiculous, but they basically gutted the set bonus into being laughably weak and poorly thought out. Swiftmend just isn't that strong of a heal on its own, so getting more Swiftmend casts isn't that much of a bonus. They cut most of the interactions (Dreamwalker is the only one left I believe) off Swiftmend. Plus, it's supposed to be an emergency heal. You want an emergency heal to be predictable and reliable - not something you have a 30% chance of proccing a cooldown reset on when you cast an expensive AoE heal.

The other problem with it is the SoTF interaction. If you hit WG on CD, you're getting an extra Swiftmend every 35 seconds or so, so potentially up to double the Swiftmend casts. This lets you use SoTF almost twice as often. Unless SoTF is so terrible that it's never worth taking, a set bonus buffing it by nearly 50% is likely to make the talent mandatory. On top of that, the interaction is awkward as hell. If you have cast an SoTF WG and the set bonus procs, you are going to have a Swiftmend that you need to sit nearly 10 seconds on before you can use it (because you won't want to use it immediately and have it affect a Rejuv or Regrowth - you need to wait for WG to come off CD).

[stormgust]

Our 4 piece has been changed to - Wild Growth has a 30% chance to reset the cooldown on Swiftmend.

Entirely garbage without both SotF and Prosperity, at least clunky with just SotF, ridiculous synergy when you pick both of them. Honestly, do did they actually understand the problem with the old set bonus (resp. this one?).

So instead of getting rid of the actual problem(prosperity), they again redesigned a different mechanic(first time: dreamwalker), without actually fixing the problem. But hey, at least no other of our concerns are adressed.

Edit:
Also rather absurd, how we went from: stack mechanics onto SM, to Stack mechanics onto WG ... just shows a lack of ideas on the dev team.

edit2:

On top of that, the interaction is awkward as hell. If you have cast an SoTF WG and the set bonus procs, you are going to have a Swiftmend that you need to sit nearly 10 seconds on before you can use it (because you won't want to use it immediately and have it affect a Rejuv or Regrowth - you need to wait for WG to come off CD).

Prosperity fixes that. Best way is probabably to make prosperity baseline, adjust SotF as needed, and redesign 4T19 to work on some ability it can be savely placed on, i.e. either LB or Rejuvenation (something you use anyway and does have a heavily conditional use resp. a load of highly correlated mechanics to it)

[Torty]

The other problem with it is the SoTF interaction. If you hit WG on CD, you're getting an extra Swiftmend every 35 seconds or so, so potentially up to double the Swiftmend casts. This lets you use SoTF almost twice as often.

I've just simulated this set bonus with 3 WG casts in between each potential Swiftmend cooldown at 34% Haste. It has a ceiling of giving you 204% more SM casts per 30 seconds: SM into WG into SM, WG immidiately off cooldown into SM, WG immidiately off cooldown into SM. Bottom is obviously 0% when nothing procs. Average was about 45-50% with ~20% variance (this is a fucking insane variance). I will try to do monte carlo simulation tomorrow if I have time after work and before testing, but I don't think this is too far off the truth even though I've done this in like 10 mins, so probably plenty of mistakes.

With this percentage you will be seeing some ridiculous spikes in SM procs. I don't think it will be worth going SotF for the sake of stability of your healing. The healing increase itself is very mediocre without going SotF, because SM isn't that far ahead of Rejuv. This set bonus looks like a complete garbage unless we are getting more synergies tied into SM, but at that point I will start wondering whether developers even have a clue.

[Tiberria]

It depends on how it plays out, but I could easily see this set bonus forcing SoTF > Incarnation almost always. I think people tend to overestimate the value of Incarnation in a lot of cases. For one thing, Incarnation lasts too long. You don't often (at least in WoD) have increased damage phases that last a full 30 seconds, meaning that you end up not getting all that much from a lot of the Incarnation duration (i.e. you more get the mana cost reduction than much value from the throughput increase). I also think it was debatable between Incarnation/SoTF on a lot of fights in Highmaul/BRF. What made Incarnation clearly pull ahead was that the design of Phylactery, plus the class trinket, plus the 4 piece heavily shifted the balance to a heavier Rejuv spam play style. With those trinkets gone, it might not be as clear cut.

With 4 piece and SoTF, it's likely that we can get 2/3 or more of our WG casts SoTF buffed - especially when you factor in that we don't blindly spam WG on cooldown in a real fight, and can sit back on casting it to line it up with procs and SM coming off CD. If the 2/3 number is ballpark correct, we are looking at getting +50% healing to WG. If WG is ~20% of our output, the talent is about +10% throughput, and is likely more than that when you factor in the synergy with Flourish and with the 2 piece, probably making it closer to like +12% throughput. Is Incarnation strong enough to give us +12% throughput? I don't know that it is in a lot of cases.

Also, Prosperity effectively doubles the value of the 4 piece bonus. Basically, if you get a proc with 30 seconds left on Swiftmend's cooldown, the proc is nearly twice as valuable as a proc with 15 seconds left. Your average cooldown reduction per proc should be around 15 seconds in theory. Prosperity's charges mean that you would always get 100% of the cooldown reduction value with every proc, so it basically doubles the expected value of every proc. Whether doubling the set bonus value is strong enough to make it pull ahead of Germination/CW remains to be seen, but it's possible.

But, yes - the 4 piece is laughably bad if you aren't talenting SoTF at least and possibly Prosperity. We need to see the itemization of set pieces, but if you don't take either of those talents - it's very possible that it will be worth just using 2 piece plus better itemized off pieces than wearing 4 piece. That's especially going to be true if they do what they did in HFC where tier gear is a lower ilvl than offset stuff from the later bosses in the tier. Basically, we potentially have another T17 4 piece type fiasco on our hands.

[theburned]

It depends on how it plays out, but I could easily see this set bonus forcing SoTF > Incarnation almost always.

likely more than that when you factor in the synergy with Flourish and with the 2 piece, probably making it closer to like +12% throughput. Is Incarnation strong enough to give us +12% throughput? I don't know that it is in a lot of cases.


But, yes - the 4 piece is laughably bad if you aren't talenting SoTF at least and possibly Prosperity. Basically, we potentially have another T17 4 piece type fiasco on our hands.

This really seems to force SotF, really not a good thing. It doesnt really synergize too well with flourish does it, you are already using flourish with every 2nd SM, the bonus will just make it so you use it with every 3rd. if incarnation would be +10% throughput over SotF, and even if it does, the tier bonus would be useless then wouldn't it?

I dont see it being a lot like t17 4p fiasco, but nevertheless a fiasco, aslong as it gives us a throughput increase we will use it, but terrible design that it fucks over our talent balance.


I really thought the last one was okay, basically because it only affected properity to a point where it is actually competitive, but it did not really affect incarn vs sotf, because you wouldnt get more buffed WGs just more burst potential, while you would actually increase incarnation's throughput, afaik incarnation WG's are basically 53% buffed ((8/6)*1,15) it removed the properity only being considered if you go sotf, so getting off 5 WGs instead of 3 in ToL is quite a massive boost (WG - SM - WG - fill during CD -> WG - SM - WG - CD - WG.) While with sotf it would mostly be the flourish synergy, and it would further improve the distinction on when to use ToL and SotF which is great.

Also what does other druids think about the nerfs?

Grovewalker granting 1% healing to hots pr rank
Knowledge of the ancients increasing healing by 2% pr rank.

[dzidek]

Could you tell me which talents should I choose for 5man and raid testing? I'm not up to date with changes. After ultra short test I figured out something like this: http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#FVbs
Is this correct?

[theburned]

Could you tell me which talents should I choose for 5man and raid testing? I'm not up to date with changes. After ultra short test I figured out something like this: http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#FVbs
Is this correct?

Definitely not, Stonebark is flat out the worst talent in the last tier, properity is not considered to be very good either. Not going to tell you soul of the forest is shit because I like it a lot myself, with some good synergy with flourish, a lot of people would say ToL is a lot better though.

Personally I use germination/CW, SotF/ToL and flourish
and cultivation, spring blossoms can be better. And until I can start tracking spring blossoms I will use cultivation as I always have a slight idea who has it.

[dzidek]

Thanks for the answer. If Stonebark is the worst which one is the best? Or they are situational? If T100 will be Flourish, then T15 shoul be Germination?

[theburned]

Thanks for the answer. If Stonebark is the worst which one is the best? Or they are situational? If T100 will be Flourish, then T15 shoul be Germination?

I would say flourish, MoC helps a lot with mana management, but I would say flourish helps a lot more in terms of burst healing, and is free healing aswell.

both CW and germination has good synergy with flourish, in 5 mans I would prefer germination, and in raiding you should pick the one you prefer between CW and germination. Prosperity has its uses aswell, but its the rare niche cases, and only when coupled with SotF.

[stormgust]

I've just simulated this set bonus with 3 WG casts in between each potential Swiftmend cooldown at 34% Haste. It has a ceiling of giving you 204% more SM casts per 30 seconds: SM into WG into SM, WG immidiately off cooldown into SM, WG immidiately off cooldown into SM. Bottom is obviously 0% when nothing procs. Average was about 45-50% with ~20% variance (this is a fucking insane variance).

Did they change WG/SM CD to scale with haste, cause if not, it ceils at 200% more SM casts. Average should be 0.9 more casts with a variance of 0.63.

With this percentage you will be seeing some ridiculous spikes in SM procs. I don't think it will be worth going SotF for the sake of stability of your healing. The healing increase itself is very mediocre without going SotF, because SM isn't that far ahead of Rejuv. This set bonus looks like a complete garbage unless we are getting more synergies tied into SM, but at that point I will start wondering whether developers even have a clue.

Obviously not, we went from >tie everything into SM< to >let everything trigger of Wildgrowth<, with the net result being, that the ridiculous synergies being moved from Dreamwalker/Flourish/4T19/SotF/Prosp purely into Prosperity/SotF/4T19. My guess is, that our current state is a typical result of a new developer not wanting his own class/spec ending up too strong, and whence being incredible reluctant to actually change stuff (though there's a chance that it is simply pure ignorance).

Thanks for the answer. If Stonebark is the worst which one is the best? Or they are situational? If T100 will be Flourish, then T15 shoul be Germination?

Flourish hands down, I just don't see MoC providing all that much an longevity advantage over flourish, given how limited regrowth is in it's use, when flourish is both a throughput CD, yet also - with it being free healing - contributing significantly to longevity. As for T15, CW if you have trouble healing tank spikes, otherwise Germination, until you get 4T19, then you may want to try SotF/Prosperity (only in combination, never pick Prosperity without SotF).

[Torty]

Could you tell me which talents should I choose for 5man and raid testing? I'm not up to date with changes. After ultra short test I figured out something like this: http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#FVbs
Is this correct?

I use Incarnation, because on Alpha you wipe within first 1-2 minutes, so healing increase for 30 seconds is more valuable than static healing buffs. Other than that, I prefer Germination over Cenarion Ward, unless tanks are getting shrekt.

Did they change WG/SM CD to scale with haste, cause if not, it ceils at 200% more SM casts.

You assume WG cooldown starts at the cast start instead of landing. You cast SM, GCD passes, you start casting WG, it lands when GCD finishes. That's exactly 2 GCDs between your SM cast and possible landing of procced SM + WG cooldown starts at the same time. The ceiling scenario:
0: SM
0+GCD: WG start, procs
2*GCD: WG cooldown starts, procced SM lands. Return is (30-WG_start_time-GCD)/30, which in this case is (30-GCD-GCD)/30 since the first part is where the CD was when you landed the procced SM. That's how much you gain from it.
<...>
12* GCD: WG starts, procs.
13*GCD: WG cooldown starts, procced SM lands. Return is calculated by the same formula: (30-12*GCD-GCD)/30.
<...>
23*GCD: WG starts, procs.
24*GCD: WG cooldown starts, procced SM lands. Since the time since last SM cast was the same as between the #2 WG cast in this sequence, we are using (30-12*GCD-GCD)/30.
That's theoretical increase of (30-2*GCD)/30 + 2*(30-13*GCD)/30 = 1 - 1/15*GCD + 2 - 13/15*GCD = 3 - 14/15*GCD. At 50% haste the theoretical maximum would be 2,067 or 206,7%. I made a mistake in my initial calculations and for that Haste it's 195,3% gain.

Average should be 0.9 more casts with a variance of 0.63.

Average can't be nowhere near 0,9 more casts. You get ~0,9 more casts if you cast Wild Growth straight after SM and it procs. It would've been 0,9 or so at 50% proc rate, but the proc rate is 30%, so it must be lower. Also your variance is too high, it's nowhere near that.

These are the results I got at 1000 simulations http://i.imgur.com/DeGtDqo.png I didn't do very precise formulas, so Mean is a bit higher than it should be in reality (within 1-2%), Variance is a bit lower (within <1%), and the simulations for Swiftmend numbers assume that all procced Swiftmends are either cast without hots on the target or with one hot respectively in those cells.

Just realized WG can be cast 1 GCD earlier either normally or by clipping the GCD and not casting stuff beforehand. Well, whatever. The gain would be higher, variance also higher. The point still stands. Set bonus is shit and I hate it.

[stormgust]

You assume WG cooldown starts at the cast start instead of landing. You cast SM, GCD passes, you start casting WG, it lands when GCD finishes. That's exactly 2 GCDs between your SM cast and possible landing of procced SM + WG cooldown starts at the same time. The ceiling scenario:
...
That's theoretical increase of (30-2*GCD)/30 + 2*(30-13*GCD)/30 = 1 - 1/15*GCD + 2 - 13/15*GCD = 3 - 14/15*GCD. At 50% haste the theoretical maximum would be 2,067 or 206,7%. I made a mistake in my initial calculations and for that Haste it's 195,3% gain.

Yeah, I see where the problem is. My 200% were wrong, should've been 300%, and then it should've been clear that I was assuming prosperity (i.e. not treating the case of wasting CD at all). Anyway, it's not all that much better than the other case to begin with - unless you have SotF. Taking advantage of that without Prosperity though is going to be a nightmare - and the fact that you need not only one, but two talents for this setbonus to yield any benefit clearly show how badly designed it is.

As for your rotation, there's a small mistake, WG's CD is 10s fixed, not 10*GCD - so ceil would be at 2.2 or so.

These are the results I got at 1000 simulations http://i.imgur.com/DeGtDqo.png I didn't do very precise formulas,

Row 27/28 are hopefully excluded for the mean calculation, as they occur 30s after the first SM, and thus are 0.28s resp. 1.14s after a >regular< SM cast. But anyway, those two rows just show how absurd this setbonus is without Prosperity allowing for the swiftmend CD to run independently of the setbonus.

[Torty]

As for your rotation, there's a small mistake, WG's CD is 10s fixed, not 10*GCD - so ceil would be at 2.2 or so.

Yeah, I had it in the edit.

Rows that are beyond cooldown obviously don't affect the simulation.

[Hottz]

So I have been following the US forums and there's been quite a bit of discussion about MoC being a bit underwhelming compared to the other 2 talents, so I was thinking a small change would go a long way to making it more attractive "Regrowth can now also refresh lifeblooms duration".

I was also wondering why there has been not much commentary about living seed? With the change to mastery, crit is further devalued and hoping there would be buff to Regrowth so it's in line with other quick heals is out of the window, why have they not decided to make use of the iconic part of the Druids toolset than letting it sit on the side for another expansion. A talent to replace abundance and make use of living seed for a varied gameplay, something like "Abudance - Rejuvenation overhealing upto 15% of the players maximum health is stored as a living seed in the target for x seconds". Something similar to the old MOP mushroom though tuned lower. This would at least add some use to living seed outside of Regrowth crits and maintain the passive talent choice?