Erdogan poem: Turkey demands German action over 'obscene' satirist

[klogaroth]

A lot of people are greatly misunderstanding what Merkel is doing with this whole issue.

What she has actually said is that prosecutors would be able to bring charges.

The charges are not being brought by her, she is saying there are laws which enable charges to be brought.


What is also being done is that she has set in motion plans to repeal the laws banning insults to foreign leaders.



That's it.

She is saying "this is the law now, you broke the law now, it is possible for charges to be brought" and "but that law is stupid, so I'm going to try and change it".

[ranzino]

A lot of people are greatly misunderstanding what Merkel is doing with this whole issue.

What she has actually said is that prosecutors would be able to bring charges.

The charges are not being brought by her, she is saying there are laws which enable charges to be brought.

.....

But she should not be in the position to allow/disallow charges. wise move: she abstained and still abolished the law. Erdogan can still sue him on another paragraph.

[stormgust]

Actually, it's smarter than you think it is. As I pointed out earlier, she's having a diplomatic win, Erdogan owes her for this, while at the same time hinting at the judges what's going to happen with the law in the future.

As if a caliph, who believes such action to be his right and germany's responsibilty, would consider himself to own anyone a favor for doing so.

[Deleted]

There was private libel lawsuits already, but the prosecuter wanted to prosecute Böhmermann as well. Which under this law he was only allowed to do if Merkel said yes. In a democracy it shouldnt be the executives decision if someone can be prosecuted or not ever. Thats what Merkel believes in. So she did not block the prosecutor from doing his job, while at the same time saying that she will do her job (removing this stupid law). Now its the judges job to say: AHAHA no. And then we can all go home happy. Except for Erdogan. He will still be a giant insecure baby.

The law states that the currect goverment has to decide whether or not the case goes forwards. So she already did take influence and she forced the prosecutor with her "yes" to take action.

She could have said "no", that's what the law grants her. If she said "no" it would be just as legal and democratic because that's the way 103 and 104 was designed.

REPEAT AFTER ME: HER DECISION WAS POLITICAL AND NOT LEGAL.

[Slant]

As if a caliph, who believes such action to be his right and germany's responsibilty, would consider himself to own anyone a favor for doing so.

It's still a win if he ignores it outright. There's a huge population of Turkish expatriates in Germany. She can score with them also with this move.

[SodiumChloride]

A lot of people are greatly misunderstanding what Merkel is doing with this whole issue.

What she has actually said is that prosecutors would be able to bring charges.

The charges are not being brought by her, she is saying there are laws which enable charges to be brought.


What is also being done is that she has set in motion plans to repeal the laws banning insults to foreign leaders.



That's it.

She is saying "this is the law now, you broke the law now, it is possible for charges to be brought" and "but that law is stupid, so I'm going to try and change it".

Pretty much this.

Doubt much will happen to the guy. If the judge goes by the book, it will at most be a fine.

Due to public outcry, the German government will have the law changed sooner or later.

Then people can start insulting Erdogan again.

- - - Updated - - -

What a weak leader.

Prosecuting one of your own citizens to appease some other nation over comedy.

Nah. It's upholding the rule of law.

Not a big deal anyway. The guy will get off with a small fine.

If there is a jury, he won't even get convicted, i.e. *cough*jury nullification*cough*

[Slant]

Don't you find this a bit weird?
I don't think politicians should have the right to even make a decision about this.

It doesn't make much sense. There is already a paragraph concerning insults. Why we need another paragraph concerning insults of foreign dignitaries nobody knows. And it's probably the reason why that paragraph is slated to be cut. Even if you're a Turkish premier, you don't have more of a right of dignity than a regular citizen. I think part of the reason why the gouvernment has to allow this process is because the original insult paragraph is not investigated by the state per se, you have to report it and file charges. Unlike, for example, assult, which gets prosecuted regardless of you pressing charges or not, because it's in the public interest that such things don't happen.

I think the gouvernment is meant to have this option in case they want to avert diplomatic drama.

[Deleted]

Don't you find this a bit weird?
I don't think politicians should have the right to even make a decision about this.

Of course it is weird, stupid and shouldn't be in anywhere near the 21th century. But the law states that the goverment has to decide.
That is why she should have said "no" and then the parlament could have reemoved those paragraphs.
Keep in mind that there already is a lawsuit against Böhmermann from Erdogan, which was enough.

Personally I hate Böhmermann very much, can't stand him at all. But this is stupid and his intent was pretty clear.

The fact alone that she only wants to remove it in 2018 speaks volumes in itself. The law could be removed next week afaik. But she wants to wait for the general election.......

[ranzino]

...
I think the gouvernment is meant to have this option in case they want to avert diplomatic drama.

But the § 103 will be gone soon™ and the option gone as well. why allow and order for a show trial once more ?

[Deleted]

But the § 103 will be gone soon™ and the option gone as well. why allow and order for a show trial once more ?

"Soon" as in 2018 which is also a political decision. She wants to keep the 103 until 2018 so other people wont go after Erdogan as well.

The parlament could take out 103/104 in weeks.

[ranzino]

"Soon" as in 2018 which is also a political decision. She wants to keep the 103 until 2018 so other people wont go after Erdogan as well.

The parlament could take out 103/104 in weeks.

tstststs, how about the Bundestag moves to abolish it without her consent. oh, how i want to see that struggle taking shape in parliamental session

[sabe]

You don't need to make fun of him, just listen to his voice and you will laugh.

As for German comedy.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvW9R9pVAp0

This is a speech while he had hoarse.

[SodiumChloride]

tstststs, how about the Bundestag moves to abolish it without her consent. oh, how i want to see that struggle taking shape in parliamental session

I think she will just shrug. It's not her fault so when meeting with Erdogan, she can just say she did her best. I doubt she really gives a shit about his "feelings".

[owbu]

The law states that the currect goverment has to decide whether or not the case goes forwards. So she already did take influence and she forced the prosecutor with her "yes" to take action.

She could have said "no", that's what the law grants her. If she said "no" it would be just as legal and democratic because that's the way 103 and 104 was designed.

The prosecuter wasnt forced to file charges. Merkel says she should not have the power to prevent prosecuters to prosecute, so therefore she allows it to go forward even though the law says she would have the power to do so. Which is why she is changing the law. If you believe her or not is a diffrent story of course (she did influence (but not force) the whole thing by making a statement about it at the very beginning - which makes her argument look less solid), but based on what she says her actions make sense.
The intresting question now is if there is any other kind of laws like that where the executive gets to decide wether the prosecuter is allowed to go on or not and if Merkel has ever used a law like that to prohibit prosecution. I dont think there is, but if someone can find one, that would make her look like a giant hypocrite.

[FlemmMinis]

The real problem would be, if this process would have been ignored. Erdogan has the law on his side. Ignoring this law because he "needs to get a thicker skin" would definetly the wrong way.
Since the process is happening, I can't say I'm happy... but it's still better then ignoring it because of personal preferences.

[SodiumChloride]

The real problem would be, if this process would have been ignored. Erdogan has the law on his side. Ignoring this law because he "needs to get a thicker skin" would definetly the wrong way.
Since the process is happening, I can't say I'm happy... but it's still better then ignoring it because of personal preferences.

It's just a fine. Not a bad price to pay for maintaining the rule of law.

[Vyse]

Well, thats just Germany.

Shitting on their own people, while the main point is that Germany looks nice and friendly from the outside.

Refugees all come to Germany, we give you a home and some clothes and an iPhone 6S Plus so you can call Allah.
German retirees, sorry but even tho you helped build the country, we dont have anything for you except your 300€/month.

Oh and Refugees I almost forgot you all get an Apple Watch because you gotta know when its time to rape people.

[Deleted]

To quote the great @Djalil

Hitler's germany wasnt that bad if you take away you know... the racial supremacy and all that jazz.
I mean national socialism isnt that bad

But yeah I think Erdogan has lost the plot

He was right you know.

[Slant]

But the § 103 will be gone soon™ and the option gone as well. why allow and order for a show trial once more ?

Because it doesn't cost her anything, the case will in all likelihood be dismissed. This is a win-win-win for her. She does Erdogan a favor, the Turks in Germany think she's cool and the case is going to be dismissed anyway, because those judges usually don't rule in favour of a guilty verdict when the law ist practically already abolished. There is a small, tiny chance that they might freak out on this, but in 9 out of 10 cases, they won't bother.

So, why should she give Erdogan the platform to rant more about how evil Germany is, and how this is all just a plot to... I don't know, embarass Turkey? Who knows what's going on in his crazed mind. But that's some diplomatic shittalking that we really can do without, so why not?

[SodiumChloride]

There is a small, tiny chance that they might freak out on this, but in 9 out of 10 cases, they won't bother.

Even if they do freak out, it will just be a small fine - there are worse "speech" offenses in Germany I believe.