Former Vanilla WoW team lead Mark Kern statement to Mike Morhaime on legacy servers

[Granyala]

Yay, more dumb whining about legacy servers.

Part of me wants to see them introduced, just to see them crash and become ghost towns a year later.

[Wildmoon]

And you are delusional that you think it wouldnt. You know how many players is there what play or played retail and would insta swap vannila wow for retail? Hundreds of thounsend.

I am not sure if you are serious. You gotta love the server so much that you can not make reasonable judgement. I have absolutely no interest in the server when I am not even subbed currently.

[shoc]

You need max 2 vannila and TBC. Rest of the expansion all more less game garbage anyway. + I dont see any reason why should i or any other players what would love to play old game suffer on retail just to increase playbase. Who cares if it spread playerbase.

Listen, I want to revisit the Legacy experience just as much as the next guy. I had a fun few weeks on Nost, I totally agree that there are some valuable community building and gameplay mechanisms in Vanilla WoW that formed purely out of circumstance that simply don't exist in modern WoW.

What I'm saying is, that if Blizzard released Legacy servers as-is, they would be barren wastelands within 6 months.

No patches means no new content. Once you beat KT, what reason is there to continue?
No patches mean no class balancing. Literally all but 3 classes were practically useless. Who wants to play half a dozen viable specs for all eternity?
No patches means a stagnant meta. There won't even be a meta. PvP will just be Rogues and who wins is determined by RNG crits.
No patches means bugs, dupes, hacks and exploits that are going to frustrate honest players. Who wants to play when you know Blizzard will never fix gamebreaking bugs?

To solve any of these problems would be to invest significant amounts of development time and resources, which simply is not viable given the small size of the minority of the playerbase that wants Legacy servers.

A possible solution would be to attempt to replicate the Vanilla WoW experience within the confines of the existing WoW client and server.

By starting fresh servers with no transfers, level cap of 60, queuing disabled, EXP gain nerfed by like 75%, Max HP nerfed by like 1/3rd, DPS nerfed by 1/3rd.

While we're stuck with the Cataclysm world and quests, EXP nerfs ensure that people will be spending much more time in zones after quests are depleted, like in Vanilla. No queuing means dungeons and raids the old fashioned way. HP and DPS nerfs make content a little more challenging.

That's really all Legacy servers would need to restore a semblance of grinding through the levels alongside a horde of other idiots grinding through the tough content. And that's what the Vanilla experience is all about. Being among the idiots.

[Barnabas]

It took 3 or 4 years for blizzard to come around to making nights in warcraft darker and anyone expects legacy servers anytime soon?

[Wildmoon]

I agree that we should keep a proper tone, but dont try to make it look like its only pro-legacy people who act like idiots on forums.

I dont understand why people are against the idea of legacy server, im quite sure that it would turn out profitable (not a goldmine, but profitable) it would require very little effort to keep the servers running and it wouldnt hurt the development of new exspansions whatsoever.

People like me are not against the idea of legacy server. We are just very skeptical of its possibility because we are realistic about cost/benefit. It wouldn't affect me in the slightest.

[Triks]

Listen, I want to revisit the Legacy experience just as much as the next guy. I had a fun few weeks on Nost, I totally agree that there are some valuable community building and gameplay mechanisms in Vanilla WoW that formed purely out of circumstance that simply don't exist in modern WoW.

What I'm saying is, that if Blizzard released Legacy servers as-is, they would be barren wastelands within 6 months.

No patches means no new content. Once you beat KT, what reason is there to continue?
No patches mean no class balancing. Literally all but 3 classes were practically useless. Who wants to play half a dozen viable specs for all eternity?
No patches means a stagnant meta. There won't even be a meta. PvP will just be Rogues and who wins is determined by RNG crits.
No patches means bugs, dupes, hacks and exploits that are going to frustrate honest players. Who wants to play when you know Blizzard will never fix gamebreaking bugs?

To solve any of these problems would be to invest significant amounts of development time and resources, which simply is not viable given the small size of the minority of the playerbase that wants Legacy servers.

A possible solution would be to attempt to replicate the Vanilla WoW experience within the confines of the existing WoW client and server.

By starting fresh servers with no transfers, level cap of 60, queuing disabled, EXP gain nerfed by like 75%, Max HP nerfed by like 1/3rd, DPS nerfed by 1/3rd.

While we're stuck with the Cataclysm world and quests, EXP nerfs ensure that people will be spending much more time in zones after quests are depleted, like in Vanilla. No queuing means dungeons and raids the old fashioned way. HP and DPS nerfs make content a little more challenging.

That's really all Legacy servers would need to restore a semblance of grinding through the levels alongside a horde of other idiots grinding through the tough content. And that's what the Vanilla experience is all about. Being among the idiots.

Better yet, have them be ladder-style like Diablo. The servers stay up and reset every 1.5-2 years to keep things fresh.

[shoc]

And you are delusional that you think it wouldnt. You know how many players is there what play or played retail and would insta swap vannila wow for retail? Hundreds of thounsend.

So you would agree that everyone who wanted to play Vanilla WoW would have already gone over to Nostralius, correct? How could they not? The servers were very stable, the community was bustling, and best of all, it was F2P. All you had to do was get an old client, change your realmlist and you were good to go.

And if everyone on Nostralius represented the extent of the demand for Legacy servers then congratulations, you've just proved my point.

[dd614]

Good for Kern standing up for the fans. Sad to see the typical debbie downers attacking him for challenging their god Blizzard-Activision.

[Roadblock]

Yeah, insults swing both ways

But you are also right: I cannot see how a legacy server would hurt me (or anyone who has no interest in playing there). Especially if it gets people back to the game who have otherwise quit. At this point I am more interested in the 2000 pages thread that will happen IF Blizzard actually says "We were surprised by the demand, here is your legacy server"

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What playerbase is that? The hundreds and thousands of people who cannot come to a consensus about anything on this forum for example? I swear if you said "Alliance colour is blue and Horde colour is red" you would still have people disputing that just to watch the forum burn.

Sigh indeed.....

Nah, as soon as people realize that spinning up some legacy servers doesn't mean there's no more current WoW servers they'll be "whatever"...

There's no parity to be had here, there's no server to serve the playstyle preference of people that enjoyed vanilla/BC WoW game design more (other than private servers)

It might attract the 6-8 anti-legacy trolls that keep posting on the Nost thread but they can't sustain a thread on their own.

Edit: Btw I don't think Mark Kern deserves his own thread when there's a megathread about legacy servers open.

[Deleted]

No, because the people who are angry about people that keep asking for legacy servers will cheer and applaud anything Blizzard does.

No. I am angry about hearing it because people like you KEEP MAKING THESE THREADS! There is one already up, use it!

[Jewsco]

I agree that we should keep a proper tone, but dont try to make it look like its only pro-legacy people who act like idiots on forums.

I dont understand why people are against the idea of legacy server, im quite sure that it would turn out profitable (not a goldmine, but profitable) it would require very little effort to keep the servers running and it wouldnt hurt the development of new exspansions whatsoever.

What facts do you have backing any of your opinions up?
I too would like legacy servers but I also can see where it could be costly for blizz.
Also they have trouble getting content out to us now how in the world could adding this not affect new content?

[Atherius]

I've been playing on Kronos (2nd biggest vanilla server after Nost) for around 17 days /played right now, and I can honestly say that it's the best time i've ever had in WoW. This is coming from a guy who started in Cataclysm and have done most raids on heroic/mythic up till now. I started on Kronos because I was bored of retail, and although the leveling grind is something I'd rather not do again, the vanilla experience as a whole is so much better than what I expected it to be. I do plan on playing in Legion, but at the same time, I want to play a bit on Kronos and experience the release of Naxxramas and other big events.

To everyone who thinks it's a bad idea: What if they introduced them in the same maner Old School Runescape was introduced? Currently, it's got over 55% of the total playerbase. It's a great addition to the game, and it's the sole reason Jagex is doing so well atm.

[Jewsco]

What kind of server was that legacy server anyhow?

I expect, that if Legacy servers WERE introduced, the next thing is people want them as PvE, PvP, RP and in russian, german, french, oceanic, korean, chinese, italian, spanish, portugese, etc etc... Easily makes not ONE server, but 30....does that not come to anyone's mind as a possibility?

These are some of the little facts the prolegacy people seem to gloss over. I myself would like to check out a legacy server but I can see the Pandora box full of problems they open up. To not see them is being blissfully ignorant.

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I've been playing on Kronos (2nd biggest vanilla server after Nost) for around 17 days /played right now, and I can honestly say that it's the best time i've ever had in WoW. This is coming from a guy who started in Cataclysm and have done most raids on heroic/mythic up till now. I started on Kronos because I was bored of retail, and although the leveling grind is something I'd rather not do again, the vanilla experience as a whole is so much better than what I expected it to be. I do plan on playing in Legion, but at the same time, I want to play a bit on Kronos and experience the release of Naxxramas and other big events.

To everyone who thinks it's a bad idea: What if they introduced them in the same maner Old School Runescape was introduced? Currently, it's got over 55% of the total playerbase. It's a great addition to the game, and it's the sole reason Jagex is doing so well atm.

You love it yet you complain about the leveling grind right? How do you think the casual or less player will like it? How long will they stay at it or will you for that matter?

[Deleted]

as someone who started only in wotlk ild really love to see blizz reroll the wowhistory on a server. i cant imagine it to be too hard to have a server following approximately the old timeline. that doesnt neccessarily mean it would have to have every little patch included but maybe the later content patches when the worst bugs were fixed.

something to do while youre done with the current content to keep the players subbed.

Nobody is denying that there is demand. There isn't enough demand to justify publishing and charging money for Legacy servers.

150k Nost players represent like, 2% of the total WoW playerbase. Remove the people who only played Nost because it was F2P WoW, and you've got even less interested players. Let's say, 1.5%?

Blizzard doing anything to cater to 1.5% of the playerbase would result in riots.

like myth raids?

i guess way more active players would join a legacy server if it was legit and connected to your account.

[Bonkbonk100]

I think Blizzard, at their current state, is unable to accept that certain people would rather play Vanilla then their far "superior" version they have now. Their nose is so far up in the air that even god can see their nostrils.

Hiring the Nostalrius crew and their working version of Vanilla WoW is not something Blizzard will do.

Never forget this: You think you do, but you don't.

[Jewsco]

I think Blizzard, at their current state, is unable to accept that certain people would rather play Vanilla then their far "superior" version they have now. Their nose is so far up in the air that even god can see their nostrils.

Hiring the Nostalrius crew and their working version of Vanilla WoW is not something Blizzard will do.

Never forget this: You think you do, but you don't.

Maybe some of what you say is true but to deny the overall fact about the cost is you being as blind as blizz. Money talks right? If legacy servers are so profitable you truely believe blizz is saying no to money? Really?

[Triks]

Maybe some of what you say is true but to deny the overall fact about the cost is you being as blind as blizz. Money talks right? If legacy servers are so profitable you truely believe blizz is saying no to money? Really?

It isn't entirely about the money - it would fracture the player base and if you think recruitment for mythic is hard nowadays, just wait until legacy realms are introduced.

[OreoLover]

And you are delusional that you think it wouldnt. You know how many players is there what play or played retail and would insta swap vannila wow for retail? Hundreds of thounsend.

Lol are you trolling? Hundreds of thousands would eclipse millions?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Yay, more dumb whining about legacy servers.

Part of me wants to see them introduced, just to see them crash and become ghost towns a year later.

So why won't Blizzard do that then? Open one server that would serve as an example, then when people simply didn't use it, they could not only close it down, they could make a definitive statement "see, we told you we know best" and nobody could complain.

It would cost relatively little, generate massive positive PR, and ensure that in future their word would be taken more seriously in these kinds of discussion.

So why don't they? To me, it comes back to the fact that they are TERRIFIED of letting their players play vanilla. Because people would say, immediately; "Well, it is a bit irritating not having QoL things like LFD, but my god, the gameplay is so much better. Why isn't the gameplay on current WoW this good?"

[Wildmoon]

I think Blizzard, at their current state, is unable to accept that certain people would rather play Vanilla then their far "superior" version they have now. Their nose is so far up in the air that even god can see their nostrils.

Hiring the Nostalrius crew and their working version of Vanilla WoW is not something Blizzard will do.

Never forget this: You think you do, but you don't.

Simplistic view. They have said many times that they know that there are people who prefer certain versions of WoW. They just don't think it's worth it.