Why do PC gamers make charts like this?

[Deleted]

There are people with superiority complexes on both sides and there are tons of arguments you can make for either side to offset/justify the cost so it's kinda a pointless debate.

-i would have bought a $600 tv anyways so i only have to pay $400 or w/e for the console.
-i would have bought a $600 pc anyways for work/school so i might as well pay $400 more then i would have to get a decent one.

-i can buy used games for consoles so its cheap
-i can buy grey market games or pirate games on pc so its cheap

-i can keep my console forever and it will always play the games, pc games will have compatibility issues after 10+ years
-you have to keep a console and tv with proper connectors/adatpers to play old console games, on pc you have infinite backwards compatibility


one thing i will say tho, some genres of games simply don't or barely exist on consoles, like RTS and 4x.

[Vash The Stampede]

A couple years ago I would have agreed with you, but a lot of games that you can play online these days have paid DLC, while not mandatory to play you are kind of left behind if you don't get all the extra maps and stuff, makes a 50-60$ game 30-50$ more expensive. This also makes games makers release games with the bare minimum of content so they can charge more afterwards for what should have been in at launch (see the new SW:battlefront for example)

Ok, but how is this different on console vs PC? Also, I tend to avoid games that like to DLC it up. And DLC is a catch 22 in that it can also alienate new customers. Dark Souls 3 for example will have DLC's, but I won't be one of those people buying them. It certainly doesn't effect me. Sucks to be the people playing the DLC stuff.

Except console games have a used market. By the time a PC game goes on sale, a console game will have plenty in the used market. Not exactly sales, but same thing really. Unless you consider the fact that you can pirate PC games, which is getting harder with things like denuvo out there. I think Just Cause 3 still has not been cracked nor has Rise of the Tomb Raider.

Used games suffer from a number of issues. One of which is sometimes included extras won't work cause the code has already been entered into another machine. Thus leaving you with bits of missing game. Where on PC a game that's on sale is going to come with those extras.

As for piracy, the people that usually crack games took a 1 year break. They wanted to prove to the gaming industry that piracy doesn't hurt game sales. So they aren't cracking games like Just Cause 3 and etc. Doesn't mean the game won't be cracked, but it certainly won't be done soon. Whatever denuvo is, it's not uncrackable. Though I wouldn't game on PC just to pirate games.

- - - Updated - - -

There are people with superiority complexes on both sides and there are tons of arguments you can make for either side to offset/justify the cost so it's kinda a pointless debate.

-i would have bought a $600 tv anyways so i only have to pay $400 or w/e for the console.
-i would have bought a $600 pc anyways for work/school so i might as well pay $400 more then i would have to get a decent one.

-i can buy used games for consoles so its cheap
-i can buy grey market games or pirate games on pc so its cheap

-i can keep my console forever and it will always play the games, pc games will have compatibility issues after 10+ years
-you have to keep a console and tv with proper connectors/adatpers to play old console games, on pc you have infinite backwards compatibility


one thing i will say tho, some genres of games simply don't or barely exist on consoles, like RTS and 4x.

Just going to add that the purpose of a console is to be a cheap gaming PC. That's why machines like the Atari 2600 and Classic Nintendo were created, because back then a computer was super expensive, and really bad at playing games. Nowadays I could build a very good gaming PC for $500. While a Xbox or PS4 is $300-$350, it doesn't change that a PC is something everyone needs. So if you need a PC, you might as well get one that's capable of gaming.

Which means to me the death of consoles. Eventually. Why you think Sony is making the PS4K?

[Artorius]

This discussion comes together with the old same flawed arguments every single time.

In the end, talking about the experience alone and nothing else, a console is a great machine to have fun with family/friends at the living room. It also serves as BD player or streaming device so it has its uses.

A computer is vastly more capable and you can do a lot of things with a computer, not only play games. The gaming experience is unquestionably better and for those who care about image quality and experience it matters a lot. But more than often provides close to none local multiplaying capabilities so it isn't as suitable to be used at a living room with family/friends. If all you want is play alone or online though, and you want to upgrade from the console quality. You can very well buy a Xbox controller and use a computer as you would use a console just fine. No problem whatsoever.

Consoles are cheap because the games are extremely well optoimised for them, and the hardware therefore doesn't need to be powerful. You can't do the same thing with computers for obvious reasons (game needs to run at a thousand different hardware configurations) so you'll always end up having to buy more powerful hardware to achieve the same result. Thing is, we have way more powerful hardware anyway so if you have the money you can go for it.

[unbound]

Hey guys,

I love PCs and consoles very much. I also believe people should play whatever platform they want. Today I came across this revolting image that is misleading. Here's why I hate this image

http://imgur.com/jJYnvdH

Cost of Online Features:

The guy says the cost of online is $180 for 3 years or $60 a year. A very select few people pay that amount. On groupon you can find a year subscription for $40.

https://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-12-...d-membership-1

The Cost of the System:

The guy is right about the price but the console also comes with a free AAA title depending where you get it from.

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-1TB-C...0677247&sr=1-5

Cost of Games:

Games are $60 on release for PC and consoles. Console games also go on sale just like PC games. I don't know anyone who pays full price for console games

The guy who made this chart is misleading people into thinking console gaming is expensive, it's not. Just let people play what they want.

The chart doesn't appear to be overly misleading in general. MSRP vs discounted is true for both platforms, but generally PCs have access to more free things and much deeper discounts.

Overall, I only see these charts in response to the console manufacturers claims. It's mostly education to show people that the total costs of PC gaming really aren't that different than console gaming.

I would agree overall, to play what you are comfortable with.

[Deleted]

I am not even sure about the end conclusion being that much of a burn, "your cheap console likely costs more in dollars than it can output in pixels". Same does my PC, but it sure as hell will be outdated before the console will be.

[SodiumChloride]

As far as console hardware being predictable, just wait for the PS4K.

It's still 2 versions vs 100s on PC. Yes, the order of magnitude matters.

That said, I don't think there will be a PS4K.[1]

Sony is doing pretty well this generation. They have no reason to rock the boat.

However, I won't be surprise if they have had plans for a PS4K as contingency, just in case Nintendo or Microsoft manages to one-up them with an upgrade.

[1] The laws of physics also suggests otherwise. Trying to fit hardware capable of 4k into the console form factor is going to be nigh impossible. 4k is 4x 1080p with regards to pixels. You will need 4x everything. That's a hell of a jump.

[Jester Joe]

btw, the graph is right.

"Wait for it to go on sale"

"buy used"

"use croupon to save 20 cents a month"

the fuck is wrong with you guys?

The graph can be as right as it wants.

But it doesn't even touch upon the cost of PC, making the point of it...well, pointless. I mean, generally the same games that are released on the console that console players are interested in are the same price on the PC. It also doesn't include that by paying yearly for a subscription, you get 2-3 games a month for free to play while you're subscribed.

So, I guess I'm saying the chart isn't right, at all. It's missing a LOT of information.

[Artorius]

[1] The laws of physics also suggests otherwise. Trying to fit hardware capable of 4k into the console form factor is going to be nigh impossible. 4k is 4x 1080p with regards to pixels. You will need 4x everything. That's a hell of a jump.

You realise that semiconductors don't have fixed size right? You can make the same chip at different sizes if you use different manufacturing processes.

Also, the hardware used at the PS4 is mostly PCB/connections. The actual APU isn't exactly big and you could put something 4x bigger at the same encapsulation just fine. The PS4k is rumored to use a variation of Polaris isn't it? It's entirely possible to make it run 3820x2160@30.

[Remilia]

You realise that semiconductors don't have fixed size right? You can make the same chip at different sizes if you use different manufacturing processes.

Just a note, it's a yes and no. There is a sort of soft cap to what you can make in a foundry. Around 600mm2 is generally the max for yield rate, complexity and cost. Thing about APU is it requires both a GPU and CPU so in order to fit more, you increase die space along the CPU. So it's a big trade off between the two.

[Vash The Stampede]

It's still 2 versions vs 100s on PC. Yes, the order of magnitude matters.

All it takes is another version to break compatibility. I'm sure Sony will work around this, but it's enough to cause diversity. The advantage consoles have for being consistent is not going to last.

That said, I don't think there will be a PS4K.[1]

You don't, but developers already have their hands on it. Not officially called the PS4K, but a name developers gave this machine.

Sony is doing pretty well this generation. They have no reason to rock the boat.

Just cause you're #1, doesn't mean you should do nothing to stay #1. Plus developers are wanting this, cause already there's a divide in PC vs console capabilities.

[1] The laws of physics also suggests otherwise. Trying to fit hardware capable of 4k into the console form factor is going to be nigh impossible. 4k is 4x 1080p with regards to pixels. You will need 4x everything. That's a hell of a jump.

So impossible, that it has already been done. It's not cheap, but it's been done.

[Artorius]

Just a note, it's a yes and no. There is a sort of soft cap to what you can make in a foundry. Around 600mm2 is generally the max for yield rate, complexity and cost. Thing about APU is it requires both a GPU and CPU so in order to fit more, you increase die space along the CPU. So it's a big trade off between the two.

Smaller chips are less likely to have bad sectors, big chips are also harder to cool down so yeah.

[SodiumChloride]

All it takes is another version to break compatibility. I'm sure Sony will work around this, but it's enough to cause diversity. The advantage consoles have for being consistent is not going to last.

You don't, but developers already have their hands on it. Not officially called the PS4K, but a name developers gave this machine.

It's not really that big a deal because even past consoles have hardware revisions with slight difference.

The nice things is the differences are known unlike on PC where it's impossible to account for every possible hardware variation.

Just cause you're #1, doesn't mean you should do nothing to stay #1. Plus developers are wanting this, cause already there's a divide in PC vs console capabilities.

Developers don't care. They care about being able to make money while spending as little as possible. Multiple versions just means more work.

So impossible, that it has already been done. It's not cheap, but it's been done.

Looks a lot bigger than a PS4 and it's tall so it won't fit in a TV rack. Also price is a major concern for consoles. The PS3 nearly bombed because of it's price tag and would have if Sony didn't create the Slim so quickly.

The console market is very very price sensitive. You make the most powerful hardware you can for the lowest cost. There is little room for "up market" consoles.

- - - Updated - - -

Smaller chips are less likely to have bad sectors, big chips are also harder to cool down so yeah.

There you have it.

Lower yield and cooling will be problems.

If they do make a PS4k it will probably be quite expensive.

[PassingBy]

My biggest beef with consoles is the fact that in order to make games available for both consoles and PC some of the games are gutted gameplay-wise, to make them playable with a gamepad, or graphics wise to make them playable on outdated consoles.

Other than that everyone can play whatever he wants.

And no PC gaming is not cheaper, if you get a proper gaming PC.

[Hellfury]

Charts are easier to see at cinematic 30FPS

Now seriously, its possible to do 4K on the ps4 form factor, is just isn't economically viable yet.

[SodiumChloride]

My biggest beef with consoles is the fact that in order to make games available for both consoles and PC some of the games are gutted gameplay-wise, to make them playable with a gamepad, or graphics wise to make them playable on outdated consoles.

Other than that everyone can play whatever he wants.

And no PC gaming is not cheaper, if you get a proper gaming PC.

/shrug

PC market share < console market share

Makes zero financial sense to favor the former over the latter.

[PassingBy]

/shrug

PC market share < console market share

Makes zero financial sense to favor the former over the latter.

For a long time those 2 markets were not crossing each other.
And there are still some games that are doing just fine while being PC only.

I'd say that vast majority of the best PC games ever made were made for PC only and they were/are rather financially successful.

Cheap beer market share is higher than nice wine market, however there are companies that produce cheap beer, and there are companies that produce nice wine.
And everyone is happy.

[SodiumChloride]

For a long time those 2 markets were not crossing each other.
And there are still some games that are doing just fine while being PC only.

I'd say that vast majority of the best PC games ever made were made for PC only and they were/are rather financially successful.

Cheap beer market share is higher than nice wine market, however there are companies that produce cheap beer, and there are companies that produce nice wine.
And everyone is happy.

One word: Risk.

Which market would you target/prioritize when your cost is in the 10s of millions?

There are next to no PC exclusive developers anymore. Even old school companies like id software and Epic have long dumped their PC exclusivity.

[Deathquoi]

I never pay full price for AAA PC releases. You can pretty much always find them for like 50 bucks instead of 60 on sites like GreenManGaming.

[acphydro]

PC for me when competition is involved, console when I just want to enjoy something from the couch, maybe a nice long RPG or casual local multiplayer.

Most people I know already bought a PC for general use, they already have a desk, keyboard, mouse etc., so spending the extra money to make it a gaming PC is the real factor between PC and console cost. You don't HAVE to buy the $500 videocard you can do well with the $200 card and still outperform a console with it. That's like assuming you need to buy a gaming TV to play a console, which obviously you dont, most households already own a TV. At the base level, all platforms cost roughly the same, it's the options that add extra.

I'm not implying that one is better than the other, just pointing out that most people forget that the average household already owns a PC, desk, monitor etc and could game on it for less than a console or about even. The PC just gives you a choice of how much horsepower you want. You could spend 200 or you could spends thousands.

I'm a huge advocate of gamers unite. Enjoy the games and quit whining over platform superiority. I enjoy all platforms because I enjoy the games. How I feel determines what platform I play on at the time or maybe I'm playing a console or PC exclusive. I've been using both PC and consoles for years, I've owned almost every console worth owning at launch back to the original NES, and have always had a PC to play on as well. When I was 13, I turned our family PC into a fully capable gaming pc for $150. You don't have to upgrade the PC every few years to play at equivalent console settings, you just have the option to upgrade if you want higher resolution, better textures, more filtering, etc. Options.

TLDR: Quit whining about other platforms being inferior, STFU and just enjoy the damn games.

[SodiumChloride]

You don't HAVE to buy the $500 videocard you can do well with the $200 card and still outperform a console with it.

I have a R9 270. A relatively lower-mid end card. Don't know if that is considered "$200".

Can't hold FFXIV @ 60fps.

No way in hell I will be playing a game that looks like this,



at anywhere close to 60 fps.