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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Having a vendor selling you stuff is just a lazy
    You mean like vendors selling you heirlooms so you can trivialize leveling?

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by dexodar View Post
    You mean like vendors selling you heirlooms so you can trivialize leveling?
    Still not the same, we've reached the time where leveling is just the road, not the fight. But sure, I guess to soothe you, we should go back to tokens and justice points, I don't mind - think others might though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't think many compare raiding/max-pvp with leveling, though..
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Still not the same, we've reached the time where leveling is just the road, not the fight.
    It is exactly the same. I mean literally the same: Being able to get gear from a vendor that then trivializes a part of the content. For you leveling is "just the road", but for other people that's the "fight". For other people raiding is "just the road", for other people it's the "fight". So why not put both heirlooms and max ilvl gear an a vendor and let the people either use or not use that? It follows logically from the argument you're making.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaviaton View Post
    I am basically wondering if anyone else has found heirlooms to suck the fun out of leveling? Do people generally dislike leveling so much that you prefer to get it over with as fast as possible? Do you think heirlooms could be changed somehow?
    Leveling is what you make out of it.

    If you don't enjoy leveling in WoW you have three major options:

    (1) Use your brain and find a way to level that you enjoy more. There are MANY MANY options.
    (2) Pay Blizzard for a boost.
    (3) Play a different game.

    Personally I think I'm smart enough to need only #1 but YMMV.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by dexodar View Post
    It is exactly the same. I mean literally the same: Being able to get gear from a vendor that then trivializes a part of the content. For you leveling is "just the road", but for other people that's the "fight". For other people raiding is "just the road", for other people it's the "fight". So why not put both heirlooms and max ilvl gear an a vendor and let the people either use or not use that? It follows logically from the argument you're making.
    You aren't getting the whole part of the game then? Maybe for an MMO with no endgame, yes. But World of Warcraft is built on endgame mostly, and you earn your endgame equipement by either doing raid/PvP/crafting or have luck with some mechanic.

    Though, as an RPG, you would have the leveling too - but still in the main view, part of the journey, and you wouldn't even have access to the max equipment for you would not be able to use it.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  6. #146
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    IMO yep, they ruin it. Not because of the increased experience. That is the best part about them, but should be passive depending on max level characters.

    What they ruin is the feeling of item collectibles. They are so powerful that even same-level rares are usually weaker.

    In my opinion those account-bounds should be weaker in terms of stats they provide, so that a new item drop from any source could be an upgrade at least for 1 to 2 levels.

    Im still using them though. Would never artificially slow myself down from leveling even though its fun.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvator View Post
    IMO yep, they ruin it. Not because of the increased experience. That is the best part about them, but should be passive depending on max level characters.

    What they ruin is the feeling of item collectibles. They are so powerful that even same-level rares are usually weaker.

    In my opinion those account-bounds should be weaker in terms of stats they provide, so that a new item drop from any source could be an upgrade at least for 1 to 2 levels.

    Im still using them though. Would never artificially slow myself down from leveling even though its fun.
    See now, this I can agree with.. Mostly because I love to collect things, but sadly the looms are quite powerful, but not to the stage of ruining things.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    But World of Warcraft is built on endgame mostly, and you earn your endgame equipement by either doing raid/PvP/crafting or have luck with some mechanic.
    Most of the content in WoW is before the end-game, by a huge margin. For you personally the endgame is what WoW is all about, but Blizzard has many times said that historically the majority of players don't even reach max level, let alone do the end-game content.

    Given that it's important for you that you earn your endgame equipment from raiding, then you're free to ignore the max ilvl gear vendor and earn your gear by killing raids. Precisely the same way you tell the people for whom the leveling is the most important part of the game to just ignore the heirloom vendor.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Silvator View Post
    What they ruin is the feeling of item collectibles. They are so powerful that even same-level rares are usually weaker.
    The "squish" really crushed a lot of ilvl related enjoyment out of Cataclysm and MoP. I'm not sure what the reasoning behind that was but it sucked.

    I'd like to see a re-squish with ilvl actually making a difference from ~60-90. It's probably impractical because there are thousands of items with stats that don't make much sense that would have to be either manually reworked or fixed up by clever automation. Not sure Blizzard would see the RoI for either of those, or that it's something I would want Blizzard to work on at the expense of more relevant things.

    Quote Originally Posted by dexodar View Post
    Most of the content in WoW is before the end-game, by a huge margin. For you personally the endgame is what WoW is all about, but Blizzard has many times said that historically the majority of players don't even reach max level, let alone do the end-game content.
    There was a time when most players were leveling their first character, but that was years ago.

    I personally think that was a better time in the game, but things change, and you adapt. You can adapt by playing WoW differently, or you can move on to another game.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by dexodar View Post
    Most of the content in WoW is before the end-game, by a huge margin. For you personally the endgame is what WoW is all about, but Blizzard has many times said that historically the majority of players don't even reach max level, let alone do the end-game content.
    Ah, the attempt at striking out, then I can personally inform you that I don't give a rats ass about end game. I do all the content, and I mean all. Arenas, RBG, Randon BG, Dungeons, Raid, CM's, RP, Pet Battles, Achievement hunting etc. Try to keep up and not make assumptions that because someone is against your views, that they have to or are appearing at a higher step.

    Quote Originally Posted by dexodar View Post
    Given that it's important for you that you earn your endgame equipment from raiding, then you're free to ignore the max ilvl gear vendor and earn your gear by killing raids. Precisely the same way you tell the people for whom the leveling is the most important part of the game to just ignore the heirloom vendor.
    You know what, can't even be bothered at this rate. Not only is there an attempt at attacking me due to some belief that because I'm against you, I must be only caring about one thing.

    Heirlooms is a simple tool, EVERYONE has access to them. It brings you through old content. But by your logic, Blizzard should just not bother with endgame, and just give all a boost to maximum where they can buy pretty shiny's. Leveling content is content, but not the majority of active content anymore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Foj View Post
    There was a time when most players were leveling their first character, but that was years ago.

    I personally think that was a better time in the game, but things change, and you adapt. You can adapt by playing WoW differently, or you can move on to another game.
    Humankind are meant to adapt. If things change, we can slowly change with it. If we don't like changes, in this case something optional, then we can choose not to use it. Options doesn't ruin anything.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    Leveling is cancer, questing is cancer. If I had to level alt without them I would just quit the game. If I want another character that means I want to play it in end game content and not have to waste ~50+ hours (taken out of my ass I have actually no idea how long it would take to level without heirloom) before I can start enjoying game.
    obviously, why to level up? Is this a RPG game we are playing after all?

    And this, community, is how we have come to the current situation of the game. "I want epix, gief now"

  12. #152
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    I mean, by that damn logic, you're willing to ruin everyones experience just for some optional choice tool .
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  13. #153
    - LFG system that allows you to queue from everywhere.
    - Flying everywhere.
    - XP requirements being insanely low.

    ...but yeah, heirlooms are totally the only reason why leveling has lost all meaning and effort requirement...
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  14. #154
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    Yes, I wish heirlooms could be gone forever.
    I know I don't have to use heirlooms but I know that heirlooms exist and I always feel like I have to use them, so it'd be a lot better if they just disappeared forever.

  15. #155
    I love heirlooms. Before heirlooms, I bought (cheap, because they were cheap back then, before transmog) green gear off the AH, because 90% I didn't get anything useful out of questing, and when I started in this game there was no dungeon finder neither, so both ways were slightly annoying.
    After the dungeon finder was added, at least I could level via them. But then I oftentimes found myself being level 40 and still having the starter zone white bracers/boots/gloves/belts. Dungeons not always drop the "good" gear, let alone winning them. So off I go then, again to the AH, buying greens.
    After cata, the simpliest/ugliest green gear costs hundreds of gold. Even jewelry. BECUZ TRANSMOG. :/
    I'd say Cataclysm should have solved several issues that weren't solved to make this heriloomless thing to really work. For example no nonsense gear combo: ring with strenght/agility with intellect/spirit. No resistance on gear. Crafting gear on low level is still a mess. At least if you could craft some gear for yourself. Not to mention that even dungeon gear is questionable for some classes.
    Edit: not to mention, that with the squish, this gear chasing thing is practically solved, as gear from BC to the end of mop is basically a flat lined something. I'm still using my BC belt on my hunter in mop because 250 ilevel and 25 level apparently means nothing :/

    Edit2: Also fuck removing, I put 2-300k gold into upgrading them.

    But saying GRRRRRRR REMOVE HEIRLOOMS GRRRRRR is just wrong imo.
    Last edited by Lei; 2016-04-17 at 11:09 AM.

  16. #156
    Deleted
    After leveling a bunch of chars to max level... heirlooms just boost my leveling experience...

    I don't need to spent a lot of time on all that quests and stuff I did before that bores me now so it's a win for me

  17. #157
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    Solution is simple if you think it ruins your experience then don't use it. Nobody is forcing you to wear heirlooms.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoxum View Post
    Yes, I wish heirlooms could be gone forever.
    I know I don't have to use heirlooms but I know that heirlooms exist and I always feel like I have to use them, so it'd be a lot better if they just disappeared forever.
    So just because you don't have the mental strength to stop yourself from not using heirloom, you wish that heirlooms should disappear from game? Learn to control your urges and needs instead of wishing for everything you don't like to disappear.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Varaben View Post
    This argument is so laughable; people don't just put handcuffs on themselves for fun. What you're saying is tantamount to saying "if you enjoy digging with your hands, don't use a shovel." I do enjoy digging with my hands, but if there's an easier way to dig, I'm going to do that. It's just THAT simple; that's basic human psychology. It's the same reason that challenge modes never took off. I hate flying and what it does to the game, but you better believe I use my flying mount instead of my ground mount.

    The SIMPLE fact remains that people take the path of least resistance. No one handicaps themselves on purpose EVEN if they found that way more fun. No one will do this; this game is evidence of that fact, so again, this argument is laughable and fails to address the question at all.

    Edit: On topic, heirlooms don't ruin the leveling experience all by themselves, but if the real purpose of WoW is end-game and the leveling experience is just a passthrough, then maybe that's OK.
    Players ruin the levelling experience, through how they treat others.
    Heirlooms do not dictate how players are going to behave.

    And for your reference, on at least one character I am going without heirlooms during levelling.
    Because I feel I can learn more from an experience which isn't tending to overpower the content.
    It isn't just about "handicapping yourself".
    Not everyone wants or needs the journey to be as short as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magruun View Post
    Levelling 1-60 is not as good as it could be.
    Even without Heirlooms everything is way too easy.
    it is almost impossible to die to mobs in the wild.
    you outlevel the zones too fast while questing, quests turn green when you are only halfway done with a zone.
    Dungeons are are total zergfest and give so much xp you outlevel a the zone you were in after you've done one.

    The Cataclysm is still dominating the storyline 6 years after that expansion.
    in fact this year the Cata quests have been in the game longer than the original Vanilla quests were.

    I would nerf the experience gain over all levels and buff the strength of mobs in both dungeons and the world.
    For people who like to level fast also buff the bonus experience on Heirlooms so they allow you to level as fast as you can now.
    Easy for who exactly ?
    The experienced players, and that is the problem with this sort of conversation.
    The newbies who really need the experience are being denied it by those in the best position to help them.
    Those with the experience, but are so hellbent on doing it as quickly as possible and will then complain about how the "noobs" at level cap have no idea what they are doing.
    When can they actually get that real dungeon experience before level cap ?
    They cant get it from most random groups, that's for certain.

    I have recently levelled my hunter through WoD content, and it was a refreshing difference when I got one group where the tank was going at a far slower pace.
    Be it gear, inexperience, lack of confidence etc I didn't know, nor did I really care at that point.
    It wasn't a smooth run by and standards, but that wasn't an issue for me.
    And nor did anyone else openly complain about it either.
    It was just a welcome change of pace.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2016-04-17 at 11:21 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  19. #159
    Deleted
    What I hear in this thread is some people hate heirloom but they use it cause its faster now they want it to be removed for everyone else even though other people enjoy it. Heirloom is optional, don't use it if you don't want to. Learn to control yourself. Don't ask for optional things to be removed just cause you don't like them, there are others who enjoy them.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irlking View Post
    So just because you don't have the mental strength to stop yourself from not using heirloom, you wish that heirlooms should disappear from game? Learn to control your urges and needs instead of wishing for everything you don't like to disappear.
    Lmao, it's not just that. I think heirlooms ruin the fun of levelling.

    In example, I go to Redridge Mountains that is a 20-25 levelling zone, I could do just 1/3 of all quests in Redridge Mountain and hit level 25, doesn't sound fun or good, am I right? Players should level a bit slower and explore the beautiful Azeroth even if they have done it before.

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