Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Haselden]

Since when is this youtube fake soddapopper a former blizz dev?

Oh I can get you a better source.

http://www.pcinvasion.com/ex-world-o...ition-morhaime

There ya go.

[Gadzooks]

Half this thread is a half dozen guys spamming boasts like this. I must have missed the post when you proved everyone else wrong conclusively. I have seen statements like copyright law is black and white. I've seen lots of stuff about how it costs 50 million dollars to put vanilla wow back up on bnet. Seems odd that a whole new game, including the server side, can be made for less than that, but hey, you guys are much more logical about this.

Meanwhile, in the world outside Blizzardland, dozens of media outlets have weighed in differently. From Jontron's rant to Athene talking about the problem starting with a disconnect at Blizzard with the community, a game design professionals website friendly? - http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/2...gal_action.php and my personal favorite - http://motherboard.vice.com/read/wor...rver-shut-down . Your measured, well thought out response to each of these? They're in it for the attention. Given how crowded this field is getting, good luck standing out in it.

Also, never heard there's an upcoming lawsuit. Where did you get that info? This a car wreck for Blizz, not the train wreck of Real ID, or the Hindenburg if they had gone through with that, but a mess they didn't need. Pursuing the matter further would be like taking the corporate jet on a kamikaze mission.

The devs on the illegal server's own website posted they they heard last week Blizzard is moving forward with the lawsuit against them and their hosting company.

Do try to keep up. You know, instead of wasting time listening to Youtube personalities who have no skin in the game and just want page views.

Oh, and just to rub it in your face, here's the actual statement:

"Yesterday, we received a letter of formal notice from US and french lawyers, acting on behalf of Blizzard Entertainment, preparing to stand trial against our hosting company OVH and ourselves in less than a week now. This means the de facto end of Nostalrius under its current form."

https://en.nostalrius.org/#announcement

You were squeaking?

[manypillars]

But that's what programmers do right? They rewrite stuff, and write stuff.

Depends on the size, cost, and difficulty of the project, to say nothing of whether or not they have people in house who can handle it or if they have to hire in the talent. All of which factors into the whole thing of whether or not they'll get enough of a return on the investment to justify the project when the man power can be put into other projects with better prospects.

[bluspacecow]

All he's done is said he has Mike Morhaime's number and would deliver the petition to him personally when it gets 200k signatures. What does his past gaming history have to do with any of that?

Mike was doxxed recently. I wouldn't expect his phone number to still be the same.

[Marakesh]

The devs on the illegal server's own website posted they they heard last week Blizzard is moving forward with the lawsuit against them and their hosting company.

Do try to keep up. You know, instead of wasting time listening to Youtube personalities who have no skin in the game and just want page views.

Oh, and just to rub it in your face, here's the actual statement:

"Yesterday, we received a letter of formal notice from US and french lawyers, acting on behalf of Blizzard Entertainment, preparing to stand trial against our hosting company OVH and ourselves in less than a week now. This means the de facto end of Nostalrius under its current form."

https://en.nostalrius.org/#announcement

You were squeaking?

They've sent out other cease and desist letters before. The week was why it closed the day it did? Are you telling me you expect it to happen?

Still no response to the rest of the world, which btw is a fair bit more than youtube personalities? Get out, read a few things, consider them. Posting the same lines over and over, seems like it would get dull.

[Gadzooks]

1) 1 is completely unnecesarry
2) So?
3) Yes
4) Yes

But that's what programmers do right? They rewrite stuff, and write stuff.

I honestly doubt that they need to do stuff like that though.

Just reuse the old graphics and remodel the oldzones + use the old scripts. You can plant vanilla content on current WoW, not bring back vanilla WoW and make it work with todays hardware.

The best example of the complexities is the backpack. It's hardcoded into the game, it's referenced in so many places, and so much would have to be redone to make it work, they leave it alone.

If they can't get the time and resources to recode the bag...hows does that make creating legacy servers a viable and responsible use of their time?

You have to remember how much content vanilla was. An expansion levels a character 10 levels, or 5 for two of them. Vanilla took players from 1-60. That's 3 expansions worth of work - and two factions that did completely different content most of the time. Just compiling all that is a significant task.

I mean, if they had time in their schedules to do this, Stormwind would be fixed. Last I looked, it was still on fire, 6 years later. And that's not even as complicated as the under the hood stuff they're looking at.

Time is not a luxury for them, it's pretty clear.

[bluspacecow]

He may have been the worst CEO of a game company ever. After that though, he was a lot of good credits on his resume. Doesn't make him wrong. The fact that he isn't in the gaming industry, but has a lot of experience there, does give him an ability to speak about some things.

What good credits come after the Firefall disaster ?

Wikipedia tells me he went from Blizzard to Red5 with nothing after that. Got some links for proof if stuff he did after Red5 ?

[Blackcoffin]

You can have your community of people that live in the past pretending that everything is okay when it's not. Similar to some retarded cult. Rest of the world moves on and looks down on you folks and it's glorious.

Are you being obtuse for the sake of it? I speak for myself when I say I would gladly pay to play on a legacy server. It's fine if you oppose to that - and I will gladly hear your opinion. What I dont understand here, is why you keep slinging obnoxious and senseless slander around.

[Gadzooks]

They've sent out other cease and desist letters before. The week was why it closed the day it did? Are you telling me you expect it to happen?

Still no response to the rest of the world, which btw is a fair bit more than youtube personalities? Get out, read a few things, consider them. Posting the same lines over and over, seems like it would get dull.

Dude. They said they're getting sued. How the holy hell do you even try to deny it? Are you that belligerent you're calling THEM liars, because it doesn't fit your agenda? What part of 'standing trial" are you refusing to understand? LOL.

Time for you to step away from WoW, dude. You're taking this way too personally, you're not thinking rationally. In fact, you're responding like a lunatic.

[Deleted]

Dude. They said they're getting sued. How the holy hell do you even try to deny it? Are you that belligerent you're calling THEM liars, because it doesn't fit your agenda? What part of 'standing trial" are you refusing to understand? LOL.

Time for you to step away from WoW, dude. You're taking this way too personally, you're not thinking rationally. In fact, you're responding like a lunatic.

If blizzard does push the lawsuit, then it will be very interesting to see what ruling the court makes. I doubt they will though, they know that they are on shaky ground already (and losing it would mean vanilla servers would now be legal and pop up everywhere).. They will probably be happy that the nost devs shut it down.

[Marakesh]

Dude. They said they're getting sued. How the holy hell do you even try to deny it? Are you that belligerent you're calling THEM liars, because it doesn't fit your agenda? What part of 'standing trial" are you refusing to understand? LOL.

Time for you to step away from WoW, dude. You're taking this way too personally, you're not thinking rationally. In fact, you're responding like a lunatic.

Pretty sure, I was aware of the announcement before you. No one then or now expects a c&d to result in a trial. Again, no intellectual content, just more insults. I listed numerous people who did have various things to say about this subject. There are some who do post here with discussion in mind. You on the otherhand, ignore content in anything you respond to and start with diatribes.

[peterpan007]

The issue with releasing a Burning Crusade server or WotLK server would be that it could be more popular than their current WoD server - and that could be a big embarrassment to the Blizzard design team to say the least

[Gadzooks]

If blizzard does push the lawsuit, then it will be very interesting to see what ruling the court makes. I doubt they will though, they know that they are on shaky ground already (and losing it would mean vanilla servers would now be legal and pop up everywhere).. They will probably be happy that the nost devs shut it down.

A lot of wishful thinking there. Go read the decision on Scapegaming - they're not on shaky ground at all. They won $88 million there - and most of the $88 million was based on how many accounts they had, not the profits. The way copyright treaties work, they can sue for the same charges there, except possibly the DRM avoidance issue that they hit Scapegaming with.

[Deleted]

http://massivelyop.com/2016/04/17/ru...assic-servers/

If Runescape can do so does WoW.

“We can now say that releasing Old School RuneScape was one of the best decisions we ever made,” Jagex said. “Since Old School RuneScape’s launch in February 2013 we have seen just short of seven million players log in with over two-and-a-half million becoming members.”

Oh and btw looks like Runescape kinda have bigger player base then current WoW.

[Deleted]

A lot of wishful thinking there. Go read the decision on Scapegaming - they're not on shaky ground at all. They won $88 million there - and most of the $88 million was based on how many accounts they had, not the profits. The way copyright treaties work, they can sue for the same charges there, except possibly the DRM avoidance issue that they hit Scapegaming with.

Scapegaming is on the US (afaik) and EU law is very different.

Scapegaming also made millions in profit.

[Marakesh]

What good credits come after the Firefall disaster ?

Wikipedia tells me he went from Blizzard to Red5 with nothing after that. Got some links for proof if stuff he did after Red5 ?

That was poor wording on my part, but I did point out he was not in the business because of what happened at Red5. I meant that once you get past the one train wreck, in the capacity as a CEO mind you, he has worked on some of the best games Blizzard ever released. Also, the fact that he isn't currently employed means he can say whatever he wants about the industry which might make him a better commentator.

[Gadzooks]

Pretty sure, I was aware of the announcement before you. No one then or now expects a c&d to result in a trial. Again, no intellectual content, just more insults. I listed numerous people who did have various things to say about this subject. There are some who do post here with discussion in mind. You on the otherhand, ignore content in anything you respond to and start with diatribes.

You're special. You know that? You can't make crazy like this up.

I'll stop there, you're not worth an infraction. My point was made. You? I'm not really sure what you achieved. LOL. You're angry. You proved that. So I guess that counts.

- - - Updated - - -

Scapegaming is on the US (afaik) and EU law is very different.

Scapegaming also made millions in profit.

EU law is no different. Go find out what the Berne Convention is, what rights it gives copyright holders internationally, and then go read how EU law is supporting the Berne Convention through being a member of the WIPO and that they have to support Blizzard's rights in pursuing this. It even trumps local French law.

Edited to add: Start with WIPO, the World Intellectual Property Organization. It's part of the UN, and is the standards that all members use for copyrights. The EU is a member of the WIPO. http://www.wipo.int/portal/en/

The profit is secondary, the copyright infringement is illegal with or without it. In the Scapegaming case, the 3 million only came into play claiming 3 million in extra damages, the bulk of the decision was based on the infringement of their copyright.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

How long is "reasonable" then? Many people who started playing WoW with me haven't thought that it will be a more than 10 years long trip, so they jumped off at the end of wotlk, and many of them played through wotlk only because they wanted to see arthas arc end. I would say that WoW "ends" every time new expansion is released.
And, after all, this "progress" we are talking about is just pixels and arbitrary points, the most important thing to take from WoW experience are stories, fun and friends

The moment is never pre-defined. You know it when the end comes: When the game hasn't been updated for several years and when it's population can no longer sustain the cost. We've seen a lot of MMOs die down; they've died for these two reasons - but then it wasn't a surprise for anybody.

As you've guessed, Nostalrius was able to release Classic, have a healthy 100k player population and release a deep progression system. This is why I believe a legacy server can be created and reward profits in the long run for the publisher.

[Paranoid Android]

My goal is 20k posts and beyond.

[Marakesh]

A lot of wishful thinking there. Go read the decision on Scapegaming - they're not on shaky ground at all. They won $88 million there - and most of the $88 million was based on how many accounts they had, not the profits. The way copyright treaties work, they can sue for the same charges there, except possibly the DRM avoidance issue that they hit Scapegaming with.

Please. In the US. A sordid pay to win operation with all sorts of drama. Unlikable defendant who didn't even show up to trail. If think Blizz is going to trail on this, keep waiting. There have been quite a few c&d's sent to private servers over the years which did not result in anything more. Again, this whole topic got discussed early on.