Hardcore Realm System Suggestion

[Deleted]

fixed your flawd thinking. the same mistake is made by the "we need lagecy servers"-crowd

You know just as little about how many would play as I do, so don't pretend you do.

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Dude really, just like legacy servers there just isn't enough people that would be into that. If you want something "hardcore" go play Dark Souls or something.

I bet you there would be enough people.

[clevin]

You know just as little about how many would play as I do, so don't pretend you do.
.

His point is that you can't know. "some" allows for that number to be a lot or just a few. "Many" presumes a high number. See the difference?

[Deleted]

I would LOOOVE THIS

[Deleted]

His point is that you can't know. "some" allows for that number to be a lot or just a few. "Many" presumes a high number. See the difference?

I guess you're right, some just usually carries the connotation of being smaller rather than bigger^^ Many can also be interpreted in different ways, as the requires amount of players for it to be profitable varies. If Blizz hosted one server, then many would be anywhere above 3k players because that's what a populated server is like. Based on legacy server outcry and viewer counts of streamers with large fanbases advocating such changes, it's safe to assume that 3k number would be shattered.

[Deleted]

if your going to make it a hardcore realm, at least make it a proper hardcore realm.
if you die, that's it. Game over, you loose all your loot that is not in a stash, exactly like it is in diablo 3

[SoulSoBreezy]

-Level slower
-Don't skip dungeons because they give good gear increasing your leveling speed
-Gear through heroics, crafting and emissary quests
-Gear through mythic+ dungeons, and since rewards scale you will eventually get gear at heroic and maybe starting mythic ilvl allowing you to enter mythic
-Do mythic, hit a brick wall, push higher dungeons, push more mythic etc etc

There is a big difference between watching a video, and seeing the raid yourself. On normal realms you see the raid multiple times before you enter mythic, and especially before you finish the tier on mythic.

Death punishing servers aren't enjoyable imo.

This server would create a longer and more challenging leveling experience making players move around the world doing things, encouraging more world pvp, and making the endgame progression more streamlines removing repetition of raiding content on different difficulties.

You say hardcore but it's very difficult to see this anything but slow. Well, slower than standard servers. Once players are able to overcome XYZ threshold by farming keystones and early raid bosses, the difficulty flattens out considerably, and we're left with a similar gameplay experience it is now.

Focus would turn away from the whole multiple difficulty paradigm and instead be focused on Mythic+. That's okay, but I'm not getting how this is "hardcore."

[Marston]

I am all for a sort of hard mode, but I would only increase mob health and damage. That would be enough. And it could be a simple permanent buff (that could be activated/deactivated similar to how XP can be activated/deactivated) IF there would be a good solution for grouping and dungeons. Does it get turned off it not all in the group have it? Do mobs scale and still deal more damage/have more HP for you but not for others? I don't think systems have to be removed, mob health and damage is the only "problem" the game has, and even that is not that much of a problem in higher zones, but in the early game.

[Socialhealer]

disable all raids but mythic lmao, the dps requirements for the first boss alone will be stupid without gear from lower raids.

[Deleted]

if your going to make it a hardcore realm, at least make it a proper hardcore realm.
if you die, that's it. Game over, you loose all your loot that is not in a stash, exactly like it is in diablo 3

I don't think many people would want to play this.

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You say hardcore but it's very difficult to see this anything but slow. Well, slower than standard servers. Once players are able to overcome XYZ threshold by farming keystones and early raid bosses, the difficulty flattens out considerably, and we're left with a similar gameplay experience it is now.

Focus would turn away from the whole multiple difficulty paradigm and instead be focused on Mythic+. That's okay, but I'm not getting how this is "hardcore."

"Hardcore" is just something I came up with on the fly, I'm not trying to hit the nail on the end and make it fit perfectly to the design philosphy of the server. My goal is to create a community driven style realm without LFG/LFM, longer and more difficult leveling, a focus on world quests and mythic+ as well as a very difficult raid that only has one difficulty.

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I am all for a sort of hard mode, but I would only increase mob health and damage. That would be enough. And it could be a simple permanent buff (that could be activated/deactivated similar to how XP can be activated/deactivated) IF there would be a good solution for grouping and dungeons. Does it get turned off it not all in the group have it? Do mobs scale and still deal more damage/have more HP for you but not for others? I don't think systems have to be removed, mob health and damage is the only "problem" the game has, and even that is not that much of a problem in higher zones, but in the early game.

That is something I feel needs changing on all realms I suppose, but the rest of the changes are quite important to the overall experience. Again, this should be optional and exclusive to this new type of realm.

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disable all raids but mythic lmao, the dps requirements for the first boss alone will be stupid without gear from lower raids.

Well hellfire asssault doesn't have a very tight dps check on mythic :P Assuming Mythic+ and world quests give heroic raid level loot the first few bosses on mythic should be more than do-able.

[SoulSoBreezy]

"Hardcore" is just something I came up with on the fly, I'm not trying to hit the nail on the end and make it fit perfectly to the design philosphy of the server. My goal is to create a community driven style realm without LFG/LFM, longer and more difficult leveling, a focus on world quests and mythic+ as well as a very difficult raid that only has one difficulty.

But it's not "a very difficult raid." It's just the mythic version of the raid. It's not any harder to complete mythic on your server as opposed to a standard server. At best/worst, it takes longer to get to the level where mythic level gear can be acquired via keystones, and when other reward options are exhausted, legendary farming for days.

[Pull My Finger]

Fun is subjective, and some people get enjoyment out of difficult content.

I'm one of those people. That's why I play stuff like Dark Souls and Alien: Isolation. What does that have anything to do with WoW? It's the most nonsensical thing ever. It was never a hard game and anyone who keeps talking about that clearly doesn't even have a clue what they actually want. I really doubt you people even really know what a "hard" game is any more.

A lot of the features implemented over the years destroy server communities, and that is a fact.

There's something highly contradictory about that idea. If your presumed target audience for such servers is out there, than I must wonder what is actually wrong with these people, why do they fail at "being a community" on live servers right now? What's the matter? Why doesn't these admirable clientele engage in what it values oh so much?

Your idea of "community" doesn't exist because people don't care. You can blame game systems or the weather all day.

[Deleted]

OP confuses hardcore with casuals. Why would anyone who has keybindings and all skills available struggle on some low content with 10% skills available because the numbers dictate it? Sorry but mythic raiders will not join your realm @ op.

[corebit]

OP how can you mention hardcore and not include losing XP/de-leveling upon death? Kids these days...

[Deleted]

OP how can you mention hardcore and not include losing XP/de-leveling upon death? Kids these days...

Indeed, if you want to create a TRUE hardcore server you should be able to lose XP from deaths - to the point where you actually lose levels.
And your corpse should be lootable by anyone and raids shouldn't be instanced, if a boss is killed, it is killed untill it respawns - camping for days is part of hardcore MMO ethos. There should also be death traps in the world that make you lose all your gear permanently, should you happen to fall into one.

These are TRUE old school hardcore traits, introduced in MMOs/MUDs much before vanilla-WoW came along and made things casual and accessible to the big masses. They should be included in your realm if you wanted to to build a TRUE hardcore community.

[Vicarys]

"Hardcore" concept by WoW players is funny. Let's add two zeroes to enemies HP and Attack numbers, so those badly scripted bosses that needs no improvisation/brain looks harder.
I wonder if these Hardcore ppl ever played older MMORPGs. True Hardcore server: when you die, 80% of current level experience is lost (losing entire levels is possible), equipments are dropped and players can loot your dead body if you don't recover it first, PvP everywhere, Open World bosses being disputed by different guilds and factions, so you first need to dominate the area and then kill the boss, no BoA/BoE/BoP making gold truly relevant... Now that would be a cool Hardcore server.

[Deleted]

Now that would be a cool Hardcore server.

Exactly and it's also good to remember why WoW completely dominated these early hardcore games. It was accessible and aimed for the masses, not just the ultimate hardcore crowd - they wanted as many as possible to play WoW - and it worked.

I find it quite funny that there is a faction of these so called hardcore players in WoW who have seemingly forgotten all about the past and how MMOs were before WoW. Back then they would have been marked the "crybaby casuals" going to play the "kiddie game" by the community that didn't go over to WoW - now they're demanding going back to something that died *just because* of populatity of WoW Vanilla and its casual focus.

Isn't it ironic?

But in short - the group that would play on true hardcore server would probably be couple of thousand at very best. Most of them wouldn't play for very long. They all died for a reason long ago.

[Deleted]

But it's not "a very difficult raid." It's just the mythic version of the raid. It's not any harder to complete mythic on your server as opposed to a standard server. At best/worst, it takes longer to get to the level where mythic level gear can be acquired via keystones, and when other reward options are exhausted, legendary farming for days.

It is very difficult in the grand scheme of things if it is the only one available to the players there. I raid mythic now, and have been for years, and that wouldn't really change there. I personally don't like doing heroic/normal week, but I'd be gimping myself if I wasn't. I don't like re-colors of tier sets, and I generally don't like multiple difficulties because I feel it ruins the experience.

I totally understand why we need it though, I just think if you added a couple realms like this you could change that for a group of people that don't want it.

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I'm one of those people. That's why I play stuff like Dark Souls and Alien: Isolation. What does that have anything to do with WoW? It's the most nonsensical thing ever. It was never a hard game and anyone who keeps talking about that clearly doesn't even have a clue what they actually want. I really doubt you people even really know what a "hard" game is any more.



There's something highly contradictory about that idea. If your presumed target audience for such servers is out there, than I must wonder what is actually wrong with these people, why do they fail at "being a community" on live servers right now? What's the matter? Why doesn't these admirable clientele engage in what it values oh so much?

Your idea of "community" doesn't exist because people don't care. You can blame game systems or the weather all day.

I don't want to play any of those games, I want to play wow. It's as simple as that. However I wouldn't mind if mobs in the world would kill me if I pulled more than 2, and aggro ranges were so big that I had to watch out not to pull the whole damn zone. I also wouldn't mind if dungeons did a lot of damage so that if you stand in stuff you die, and tanks die if they overpull.

It's not contradictory, as I said in order to please a community that wants this these changes would need to happen. It's like talking to the legacy crowd and asking them why they just don't lock their exp at 60 and farm MC on retail. It doesn't work. The Nostalrius community was like it was because they were confined on that server.

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OP confuses hardcore with casuals. Why would anyone who has keybindings and all skills available struggle on some low content with 10% skills available because the numbers dictate it? Sorry but mythic raiders will not join your realm @ op.

I'm not looking for only mythic raiders to join my server, there would be lots of people simply looking for this kind of experience on the server, some of which may be mythic raiders like myself.

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OP how can you mention hardcore and not include losing XP/de-leveling upon death? Kids these days...

Because that kind of gameplay is not fun in an mmo, where dungeon and raid progression take into consideration that you die a lot.

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Indeed, if you want to create a TRUE hardcore server you should be able to lose XP from deaths - to the point where you actually lose levels.
And your corpse should be lootable by anyone and raids shouldn't be instanced, if a boss is killed, it is killed untill it respawns - camping for days is part of hardcore MMO ethos. There should also be death traps in the world that make you lose all your gear permanently, should you happen to fall into one.

These are TRUE old school hardcore traits, introduced in MMOs/MUDs much before vanilla-WoW came along and made things casual and accessible to the big masses. They should be included in your realm if you wanted to to build a TRUE hardcore community.

Yeah well Blizzard removes those things but most people didn't enjoy them, hence I wouldn't want them on this realm, as well as most others probably.

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"Hardcore" concept by WoW players is funny. Let's add two zeroes to enemies HP and Attack numbers, so those badly scripted bosses that needs no improvisation/brain looks harder.
I wonder if these Hardcore ppl ever played older MMORPGs. True Hardcore server: when you die, 80% of current level experience is lost (losing entire levels is possible), equipments are dropped and players can loot your dead body if you don't recover it first, PvP everywhere, Open World bosses being disputed by different guilds and factions, so you first need to dominate the area and then kill the boss, no BoA/BoE/BoP making gold truly relevant... Now that would be a cool Hardcore server.

I feel like I need to change the name of the post... This is getting ridiculous, it's not meant to be 'hardcore' akin to diablo or old MMOs, it's a different server with a rule set disabling features that ruined a sense of community and adventure in the leveling process, while removing raid repetition at max level on different difficulties.

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Exactly and it's also good to remember why WoW completely dominated these early hardcore games. It was accessible and aimed for the masses, not just the ultimate hardcore crowd - they wanted as many as possible to play WoW - and it worked.

I find it quite funny that there is a faction of these so called hardcore players in WoW who have seemingly forgotten all about the past and how MMOs were before WoW. Back then they would have been marked the "crybaby casuals" going to play the "kiddie game" by the community that didn't go over to WoW - now they're demanding going back to something that died *just because* of populatity of WoW Vanilla and its casual focus.

Isn't it ironic?

But in short - the group that would play on true hardcore server would probably be couple of thousand at very best. Most of them wouldn't play for very long. They all died for a reason long ago.

Exactly, it'd be a small group, hence not what I am looking for. Thanks for proving my point.

[Segus1992]

What I don't get is: Some things are already in the game, just use some restraint

Don't like heirlooms? Don't use them. Don't like LFR / LFD: Spam for groups in /1. Hey..you claim "many" are like you, you should have no problem finding them. And while you are at it, be hardcore and walk everywhere until max level.

I could understand if you want a hardcore realm that uses the Diablo 3 (soon Legion) dungeon keystone system where you can roll to have mobs being shit hard. But everything else....hell...you could even skip the HM / normal week pre-mythic and go straight for mythic.

I'm not really for the OP's suggestion, but don't you people get that this argument is ridiculous? "Shoot yourself in the foot if you don't like your shoes". The thing is that people want to get rid of the extreme conveniences that the game has gotten over the years, but to not use those conveniences when everyone else does is simply stupid.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Any gameplay change "realm" that prevents me from playing the character I've played for 10+ years I would be against, including legacy or hardcore.
Its a neat idea, but these things aren't something that need their own development time.
You can always make the game a challenge for yourself if you want.

[Segus1992]

OP how can you mention hardcore and not include losing XP/de-leveling upon death? Kids these days...

"Kids these days" he says, suggesting exp loss. Even today, hardcore means perma-death in almost all cases.

Kids these days.