1. #17601
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Now tell me how many will pony up the money to run the server.

    BTW you may find this of interest: reposted with permission
    What does paying money have to do with genuine interest in the subject matter from a potential demographic?

    Why do you also seem to be so inclined as to have subscription model as a default payment method?

    You posting a quote created which again assumes subscription models to be the only viable solution is irrelevant to the topic. Too many assumptions on what Blizzard has done or not. When asked specifically on if Blizzard had ever thought about re-visiting expansions as they were then, a representative replied: "No, you think you want that, but you don't" (after I sort his stuttering out). He openly replied "no". They never thought about it, let that sink in. A Blizzard employee explicitly said so. No.

    If they never entertained the thought they never ran statistics. The statistics are in the open for all to see. They are called private servers, and their activity is proof of a demographic. You can try to shrug it off by implying not enough would pay by creating an artifical argument regarding subscription models, but that can be easily dealt with by utilizing a more effective payment model for stale content such as a legacy server. Case in point, you have no argument that isn't based on a falsely constructed premise regarding subscriptions. You have no means of dismissing genuine interest and a demographic.

    Cut the fucking bullshit, already. Excuses posted by Blizzard about costs without no details regarding said excuse, in the very post where they themself verify that they never lost the entire old code, an excuse that has been used multiple times up until I caught it red-handed and began attacking that premise, is questionable at best. It is an excuse, not establish fact.

    Provided evidence (curtosy of the Google search engine, since a good portion of it is not allowed to be linked to or even mentioned specifically by name):

    1) Private server activity and their success as such inspite of their questionable nature, which would normally cause people to avoid them.

    2) There are half a dozen active private servers with classic orientation and has been like this for many years.

    3) Many of these private servers rival or topple most of the large servers in WoW in terms of activity.

    4) Nostalrius alone could be compared to 3-4 of the largest WoW-servers currently running in terms of activity (put together, not one by one).

    5) 150k+ signatures on an actual petition.

    6) Anything from 80k up to 2+ million views per youtube video (depending on the chosen video-creater) which focuses on the topic.

    7) One of the largest threads currently running on MMO-Champion, while others also address the topic (legacy servers/classic WoW) but in a different manner than focusing on Nostalrius.

    Assumptions are:

    1) What Blizzard knows that the common public does not when they try to make an excuse not to undertake a potential project.

    2) WoW ran statistics and analyzes this specific topic, even if when asked directly by the community they said "no". They never thought about legacy servers at all. This has been recorded and is a meme by now:


    3) Blizzard lost the old code and would have to re-write it from scratch (proven false by a blue poster on the offical forums).

    4) That subscription models are the only capable monetization method in today's market.

    5) Blizzard will make every correct buisness decision, because they want to make a profit, even if they have made a plethora of bad decisions the last 5 years.

    6) There's not enough interest, Blizzard said so, in a formal excuse to their playerbase (which is written in order to justify their stance as to why it shouldn't be done). No data was provided on the lack of interest.

    Call me Sherlock, baby, I'd say that there's very little for the nay-sayers of legacy servers to stand on. Other than conjecture based around subscription having to be a payment model and assumptions regarding how many would pay their own subscription for a stale server (duh) and Blizzard's stance (which Blizzard is allowed to have, I am merely arguing there is a fucking demographic).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cevera View Post
    Blizz said, they don't have the original code anymore.
    Not quite sure how they managed to do that tho o.O
    It's bullshit and I refuted it myself by addressing a quote from the official forum that Kyanion provided in this thread. Blizzard has said so themself: they have the old code, or at least large portions of it. So that was either a lie or a complete misunderstanding by those who are against legacy servers.
    Last edited by Atelniar; 2016-04-18 at 10:33 AM.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  2. #17602
    I wonder what will happen, if the petition will be delivered to Mike.

    Will he say "Well, since 150k+ people want it, we will start working on it right away"

    OR

    will he say "Look guys, I have a new expansion coming out for WoW and a brand new game, I don't have time for this shit".

    I'm puting my money on the latter

  3. #17603
    Quote Originally Posted by QuiksLE View Post
    I wonder what will happen, if the petition will be delivered to Mike.

    Will he say "Well, since 150k+ people want it, we will start working on it right away"

    OR

    will he say "Look guys, I have a new expansion coming out for WoW and a brand new game, I don't have time for this shit".

    I'm puting my money on the latter
    That's of course an entirely different topic. Then again, that would be 150k potential customers you would piss off. There are MMORPG's out there with a playerbase arguably on that size. I am sure they would love to double their customers.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  4. #17604
    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    That's of course an entirely different topic. Then again, that would be 150k potential customers you would piss off. There are MMORPG's out there with a playerbase arguably on that size. I am sure they would love to double their customers.
    Yeah, I doubt those 150k people will go to other MMOs.

  5. #17605
    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    3) Blizzard lost the old code and would have to re-write it from scratch (proven false by a blue poster on the offical forums).
    I'd like to read this one. Do you have the source for it?

  6. #17606
    Quote Originally Posted by QuiksLE View Post
    Yeah, I doubt those 150k people will go to other MMOs.
    Well, it's not like Nostalrius is the first private server to exist. In fact, it was quite new on the scene.

    You'd be surprised at how many people quit WoW in favour of some MOBA, FPS-MMO or another MMORPG that is F2P, I think, if anyone could actual have statistics on that. Personally I replaced WoW with 2-3 different titles. 1-3 to satisfy my love of MMORPG's, 1-3 titles to replace my competetive nature in PvP related content, and these titles are F2P as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    I'd like to read this one. Do you have the source for it?
    You'd have to check out Kyanion's posts the last 100 pages or so, it's a screenshot though so it should be easy to find. They explicitly mention that they do have old code, but that with the old code follows old data.

    This is the post in question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post


    They notice there is a demand but it does not seem like there is enough of that demand to make it worth it.
    Last edited by Atelniar; 2016-04-18 at 10:40 AM.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  7. #17607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jyggalag View Post
    Your argument that these tools don't allow players to consume content more quickly than they can appreciate it is completely invalid and pretty ignorant.



    Believe it or not, some people loved 5 man dungeons in older iterations of the game because of the difficulty and the social aspect. There's a reason people don't run dungeons any more, and it's because after 1-2 days of running them, players can jump straight in to the most relevant tier of raiding. There's 0 incentive.
    There's a reason Blizz want to make them relevant again.
    My argument was about these tools not limiting your ability to communicate with others, not about "consumption" of content. Social aspect is still there, it's just some people who refuse to do that because game doesn't hold their hand anymore
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  8. #17608
    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    Well, it's not like Nostalrius is the first private server to exist. In fact, it was quite new on the scene.

    You'd be surprised at how many people quit WoW in favour of some MOBA, FPS-MMO or another MMORPG that is F2P, I think, if anyone could actual have statistics on that. Personally I replaced WoW with 2-3 different titles. 1-3 to satisfy my love of MMORPG's, 1-3 titles to replace my competetive nature in PvP related content, and these titles are F2P as well.
    I understand that, im just saying that if Blizzard announces that despite the petition there wont be any legacy/progression servers, then some other MMO wont gain 150k players overnights. The shifting has been done already. I doubt there is a single person who is waiting on Blizzard.

  9. #17609
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    My argument was about these tools not limiting your ability to communicate with others, not about "consumption" of content. Social aspect is still there, it's just some people who refuse to do that because game doesn't hold their hand anymore
    You did argue that LFR and LFD was not responsible for increasing content consumption rate, actually. You preferred to blame "bring the player, not the class".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by QuiksLE View Post
    I understand that, im just saying that if Blizzard announces that despite the petition there wont be any legacy/progression servers, then some other MMO wont gain 150k players overnights. The shifting has been done already. I doubt there is a single person who is waiting on Blizzard.
    Yea, that was a pusposefully constructed exaggeration, to point out that Blizzard is lucky to be in the position they are. That amount of signatures rivals the entire playerbase of some titles.

    And the point is: customers lost, it doesn't matter where they come from. It's 150k less that have any respect for your company and might look elsewhere (even if they are much inlove with the IP in question as a result).
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  10. #17610
    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    Well, it's not like Nostalrius is the first private server to exist. In fact, it was quite new on the scene.

    You'd be surprised at how many people quit WoW in favour of some MOBA, FPS-MMO or another MMORPG that is F2P, I think, if anyone could actual have statistics on that. Personally I replaced WoW with 2-3 different titles. 1-3 to satisfy my love of MMORPG's, 1-3 titles to replace my competetive nature in PvP related content, and these titles are F2P as well.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You'd have to check out Kyanion's posts the last 100 pages or so, it's a screenshot though so it should be easy to find. They explicitly mention that they do have old code, but that with the old code follows old data.

    This is the post in question:
    Thanks.

    I remember reading that one now.

  11. #17611
    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    Yea, that was a pusposefully constructed exaggeration, to point out that Blizzard is lucky to be in the position they are. That amount of signatures rivals the entire playerbase of some titles.

    And the point is: customers lost, it doesn't matter where they come from. It's 150k less that have any respect for your company and might look elsewhere (even if they are much inlove with the IP in question as a result).
    Yet then again, what is 150k less people on a 60+ million active userbase

  12. #17612
    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    Thanks.

    I remember reading that one now.
    Yep, and it pretty much proves the excuse as bullshit.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  13. #17613
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    Just throwing the below to lighten up the mood a bit - the laughter in this guy is hilarious


  14. #17614
    Quote Originally Posted by QuiksLE View Post
    Yet then again, what is 150k less people on a 60+ million active userbase
    You mean 5,5 million, last year, before they stopped announcing subscribers? Not 60 million or more, right?

    Well. 150000/5500000 = 0.027. It may not look as much, but that is how big WoW is currently, inspite of its decline. Ca. 3% lost from just ignoring a petition is pretty big.
    Last edited by Atelniar; 2016-04-18 at 11:00 AM.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  15. #17615
    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    You'd have to check out Kyanion's posts the last 100 pages or so, it's a screenshot though so it should be easy to find. They explicitly mention that they do have old code, but that with the old code follows old data.
    What Tom Chilton said about the old code would be true wether they had the old code or not.

    It's pretty the same thing J Allen Brack said back at the 2013 Blizzcon.

    I don't necessarily see it as confirmation of them having the old code.

    Knowledge of the limititions of old code doesn't mean that code exists. For example my old pascal assignments don't have a UI as I didn't put one in there. Yet I burnt all those when I graduated.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by QuiksLE View Post
    Yet then again, what is 150k less people on a 60+ million active userbase
    It's never been 60 million. Hyperbole doesn't help your case.

  16. #17616
    There's a lot of things to take into consideration on both side, and it all boils down into taking chances.

    You will either win some or lose some.

    Either way, it would be a great PR move for Blizzard, but how much money they could get from it, we really don't know.

  17. #17617
    Quote Originally Posted by bluspacecow View Post
    What Tom Chilton said about the old code would be true wether they had the old code or not.

    It's pretty the same thing J Allen Brack said back at the 2013 Blizzcon.

    I don't necessarily see it as confirmation of them having the old code.
    While that is in theory true, it is a statement that assumes they actually have the old code to even think about it. Why not simply repeat the old and broken mantra "we lost the code, so it isn't possible"?

    It's a confirmation that the excuse is complete bullshit. Inconsistencies like that is how you catch someone who's falsely fabricating excuses to avoid the truth (that there is plenty of demand).

    Either the old code is lost, in which case Blizzard is incompetent, or it is still available in some form. For reference, if you so wish, even if it won't be feasible to utilize it as it is currently. I lean toward the latter, and that statement does as well.
    Last edited by Atelniar; 2016-04-18 at 10:59 AM.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  18. #17618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    You did argue that LFR and LFD was not responsible for increasing content consumption rate, actually. You preferred to blame "bring the player, not the class".
    Did i? I remember talking about LFR and LFD not being responsible for community decay, and that it's still more convenient to run through raids and dungeons with friends than with strangers, and that it's more convenient to make strangers into friends, than to alienate from them by being toxic
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  19. #17619
    Deleted
    There still is a code see what Mark Kern sad.
    https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhai...ty/c/434305499

  20. #17620
    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    You mean 5,5 million, last year, before they stopped announcing subscribers? Not 60 million or more, right?

    Well. 150000/5500000 = 0.027%. It may not look as much, but that is how big WoW is currently, inspite of its decline. 0.03% lost from just ignoring a petition is pretty big.
    Not that I'm helping you, but it's actually 2.7%

    And I still find it funny how this magical number of 150000 proves that legacy servers are viable, but when the number of active subscribers on retail drops 500000 or more the game is dying.
    Last edited by Idoru; 2016-04-18 at 11:01 AM.
    "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
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