Lets assume 15 dollars an hour happens

[BuckSparkles]

I think most people don't really realize that $15 an hour minimum wage is going to impact a lot more than just minimum wages and minimum wage employment. If $15 is the new minimum then my salary sure as hell better go up by a factor of the same % increase.

This too.

So essentially, every job wages would increase and again, back to square 1.

When are we going to push for $25 an hour?

[endersblade]

I won't argue economics, we can go round for hours about it.

Consider this: In almost every major metropolitan area(where the jobs are) Rent in a shitty apartment in the ghetto or boonies costs no less than 500$/mo. That's in almost every major city in the U.S. Getting out of the ghetto immediately pushes you up to 800-1000 a month range, and it's usually not much better.

Believe it or not most people don't have the luxury or privilege of parents supporting them. They get kicked out or parents go to jail or w/e, a young person starts out life paying more than 2/3 of their pay to be independent.

If you don't want to raise pay, then lower rent.

Good fucking lord, THIS THIS THIS. Just in the past 8 years of me owning apartments, I've watching single beds go up almost $400. They've basically doubled in price. I'm currently living in a decent, and I can barely get by using that term, single apartment and I'm paying $915 for it. When I first moved here, I was paying $475 for an apartment twice this size with washer/dryer in-unit. This one doesn't even have that.

I actually fervently believe that if the fucking bubble on rent would deflate a bit, people wouldn't complain about income near as much. But it just keeps going up and up and up, and we aren't getting paid any more than we were initially.

The cost of living is skyrocketing, but our pay isn't moving. The national minimum wage hasn't gone up more than a dollar or so in over 10 years, but the cost of milk has, the cost of rent has almost doubled in many places, it's just fucking silly.

[Kujako]

When are we going to push for $25 an hour?

When wages continue to stagnate long enough for 25$ to be a national living wage.

[BuckSparkles]

Of course they do a lot, but look at how much their wages have increased over the past 30 years compared to their workers. Are you imply that the increase in profits for the past 30 years have only been made possible by CEO's? Truth is as profits and the US economy has soared over the past 30 the workers average wages has been stagnant and this is more than just the people on the bottom, but the entire work force have seen almost no real wage increase.

I tend to not pay attention to CEOs.

I tend to pay attention to my next course of action. I have one in mind, and need to see it through.

I think more people need to come up with a goal and realistic plans to advance themselves.

They need to think of opportunities and resources.

[alexw]

Exactly. If wages are higher, then demand for product goes up as people have more expendable cash. The only people benefitting from the current wage situation are companies like Wal-Mart.

If more people have expendable cash, they can afford to buy a meal more often than 1-2 McChickens off the value menu. They can afford to go to the local pizza shop more often over some Totino's pizzas from Wal-Mart. They can afford services like dry cleaning.

The funny thing is they don't even really benefit. In the long run economic growth trumps everything. So what they are doing is making inequality higher and slowing economic growth as a result. It seems they would rather be poorer as long as the gap between them at the top and everyone else is bigger. The sociopathy involved in deciding that that is what they prefer boggles me.

Why on earth would you choose to be unequal and poor (relatively), when we can be more equal and everyone be richer? Everyone would be better off but the differential would just not be as great.

[gr4vitas]

And historically, it has. People also don't realize that they're being underpaid and think they make more than they really do due to their pay's relation to the minimum wage.

I see the argument constantly that "well I only make 14 as an EMT so fuck the minimum wageraise " but ignore that they're also underpaid and making drastically less than what they would make in Canada, England, Germany, Australia, etc.

Your forgetting that taxes are also significantly higher in those countries, so the 'higher wages' really aren't any higher. It's the same as if everyones wages go up 10% then bernie taxes everyone at 10% more. Just means the gov. gets more money from business'.

[Adam Jensen]

I love the liberal response to logical arguments: Gibberish because they cant refute the argument. John Steward is an idiot btw.

First of all, Jon Stewart reacted that way because it's a ridiculous proposition deserving a ridiculous response.

Secondly, the non-ridiculous response is that there is a cap. There is a point where raising the minimum wage will be bad for the economy. That cap is nowhere near 7.50 an hour and is not 15 an hour either. Making ridiculous arguments that we can raise it to infinity is just . . . well . . . ridiculous.

[LilSaihah]

Cost of living index, perhaps. Of course, we'd have to have an official index somewhere, and such a thing doesn't exist currently. Would require an interesting amount of reporting from literally every city in every state.

I was somewhat leaning towards indexing it to inflation.

I think a cost of living index, or a minimum wage indexed to such, would probably be more effectively delivered by the states. Provide interesting economic incentives for businesses and people to move between states, perhaps.

Many places do have the minimum wage indexed to something. Here in BC it is indexed to the consumer price index. But if that become common practice the new argument would become about the forumula used.

If you're enacting legislation because you want nobody to have arguments, good luck I guess :P

[MCMLXXXII]

I tend to not pay attention to CEOs.

I tend to pay attention to my next course of action. I have one in mind, and need to see it through.

I think more people need to come up with a goal and realistic plans to advance themselves.

They need to think of opportunities and resources.

Some people don't have the resources to seize the opportunities.

[Annoying]

I think most people don't really realize that $15 an hour minimum wage is going to impact a lot more than just minimum wages and minimum wage employment. If $15 is the new minimum then my salary sure as hell better go up by a factor of the same % increase.

I don't understand this. So, because the people at the very bottom are doing marginally better and can now actually provide for themselves, suddenly that means you should get more? The goal of increasing minimum wage is to lift people in poverty out of poverty, why would someone with a non-poverty salary expect it to go up? Are the poor people too close in income to you and your ego is hurt?

[Bullettime]

Your forgetting that taxes are also significantly higher in those countries, so the 'higher wages' really aren't any higher. It's the same as if everyones wages go up 10% then bernie taxes everyone at 10% more. Just means the gov. gets more money from business'.

Taxes are higher, sure. But taxes alone won't make up as high as an $11 an hour pay difference in the case of jobs like EMTs. It's still a large net positive.

[Chrysia]

oh lord, you can't believe that.

Actually, the math has been done. To maintain both current employees and current profit margins, McDonalds would have to raise the price of the average meal $0.25.

[gr4vitas]

I don't understand this. So, because the people at the very bottom are doing marginally better and can now actually provide for themselves, suddenly that means you should get more? The goal of increasing minimum wage is to lift people in poverty out of poverty, why would someone with a non-poverty salary expect it to go up? Are the poor people too close in income to you and your ego is hurt?

Because potentially now I'm making 'poverty' wage as an educated intellectual individual. So I need more money. Additionally likely I spend a lot of time and money, on a college education were as some McDonalds guy didn't and we're making the same or closer to the same money.

Thats why.

[MCMLXXXII]

Your forgetting that taxes are also significantly higher in those countries, so the 'higher wages' really aren't any higher. It's the same as if everyones wages go up 10% then bernie taxes everyone at 10% more. Just means the gov. gets more money from business'.

And you're forgetting the difference in cost of living

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Again a practice of business not wanting to pay their fare share. You have a shit fit if some person found a way to skirt the system to say get a free lobster. Yet a business not hiring 40 hours to get out of benefits or wage. It is okay.

I could rant about the whole health insurance industry, but I won't.

I'm not sure how McDonalds owes someone 40 hours though. If working less than 40 hours is unacceptable, then people should stop working there.

[Paranoid Android]

Because potentially now I'm making 'poverty' wage as an educated intellectual individual. So I need more money. Additionally likely I spend a lot of time and money, on a college education were as some McDonalds guy didn't and we're making the same or closer to the same money.

Thats why.

You do realize that if you are so called "college educated" and earning $15/hr. You are are being underpaid?

Edit: Sadly the people who are on your side would ask what your secondary education major. If you give some answer like art major. Your same people would show disdain for you in not getting a "better" education. So the camp you are now in they just turned on you.

[MCMLXXXII]

Because potentially now I'm making 'poverty' wage as an educated intellectual individual. So I need more money. Additionally likely I spend a lot of time and money, on a college education were as some McDonalds guy didn't and we're making the same or closer to the same money.

Thats why.

If you're earning as much as an burgerflipper would and you feel entitled to a better salary you probably picked the wrong type of education.

[Grapemask]

Double would be reasonable.

Regardless, McDonalds isn't the reason a jump to $15 an hour is a bad thing. It's a combination of small businesses (so say a a place with 5 employees) and anyone earning roughly $15/hr NOW who's suddenly going to find themselves earning min. wage.

That's not how that works.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Actually, the math has been done. To maintain both current employees and current profit margins, McDonalds would have to raise the price of the average meal $0.25.

lol

Okay. I am sure that will happen.

For fucks sake, people have little to no basis in reality when it comes to economics.

When Bush started his war in Iraq after 9/11, gas prices doubled. Immediately everything increased in price by a wide margin. Don't worry though, after we double people's hourly wage the effects will be negligible.

[Fugus]

I'm not sure how McDonalds owes someone 40 hours though. If working less than 40 hours is unacceptable, then people should stop working there.

If we had universal income or 100% employment, that would be a valid response, but until either of those situations happen, that is not a viable option. When people are desperate, many are forced to take what they can get even if it is overall the shit end of the stick for themselves in the process.