Man shoots/kills firefighter; claims self defense

[WskyDK]

But by claiming afterwards a perceived fear, you must have been in control of your faculties at the time to be able to recall later that you were in fear of your life.

Incorrect, fear is instinctual and not some form of conscious choice. A person is completely able to act on instinct in one moment, but then later be able to recall that they were scared, but be unable to recall the exact process of events.

There are countless stories from police, soldiers, and just about anyone in life or death situations about how they acted on instinct in a situation, but are unable to remember the exact details.

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Everything I read has me convinced that the major safety issue in the US is not so much gun control but significant lack of access to mental healthcare. And the problem is not endemic to the US, it is just exacerbated there because guns are more readily available. More importantly it would probably be more productive to solve the mental healthcare issue than the gun safety issue (since poor mental health is a significant drain to the economy).

You're not wrong. However, in this case the mental deficiency was temporary and related to a medical condition.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Somehow we made it a couple of hundred years without it being an issue though. Maybe the laws aren't the problem, the people are.

You remove inner city urban gun crime the USA is one of the safest countries in the world.

[Tyrianth]

You remove inner city urban gun crime the USA is one of the safest countries in the world.

Remove the crime heavy areas from any country and all of a sudden they're the safest countries in the world... Imagine that.

[WskyDK]

Remove the crime heavy areas from any country and all of a sudden they're the safest countries in the world... Imagine that.

No shit eh?

[Zoldor]

Don't touch second amendment! I mean I have to pass tests to drive a car, inspect a home, graduate highschool, graduate college, get any type of professional certification, get hired at most jobs places, but fuck you I was born knowing exactly how to handle a firearm! /s

Seriously, what gun owner doesn't know identify before shooting? How is that a fucking hard concept? Then again mental deficiencies in this case due to low blood sugar, I'm sure that will comfort the family of the dead firefighter. As a gun owner the most frustrating things is other gun owners who have no regard for human life over objects, gun owners who know nothing about having a firearm, but saw a fox news channel report on crime and went and bought one, and gun owners that don't clean their weapons properly. If you can't clean, don't know proper usage techniques, and proper safety I won't be seen with you or have your back in a gun debate. I've gotten into it with many people at the range and other shooting sites because they couldn't take guns seriously, pisses me off like nothing else.

I'd rather deal with a anti-gun owner because I know the chances of full gun removal is MILES away, it will come right after a ban on alcohol, a government religion, doing away with taxes, and getting money out of politics. All those things happen and then I'll start worrying about the chance of loosing my gun rights. I'm more likely to loose gun rights because of dipshit gun owners than I am from some dude protesting gun rights.

[Tijuana]

You remove inner city urban gun crime the USA is one of the safest countries in the world.

Why don't we then?

[WskyDK]

Why don't we then?

Because cities and people are heavy

[Tijuana]

Because cities and people are heavy

Are you saying I'm fat?

[I Push Buttons]

Why don't we then?

They misplaced the "end all poverty and crime" button.

[WskyDK]

Are you saying I'm fat?

Well I dunno how old your avatar is, but you look rather fit


/s

[Tijuana]

Well I dunno how old your avatar is, but you look rather fit


/s

I assure you I am not John Turturo irl.

[Ragelicious]

Does this really need to be explained? Have we sunk so low in critical thinking that we can't assume he probably had these firearms for quite some time, all legally purchased, while being 100% of sound mind and body?

That this incident occurred simply because of someone suffering a medical condition that most likely altered their reasoning and other mental abilities?

You mean "This accident happent yet again because the US gun laws are messed up beyond madness.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

You mean "This accident happent yet again because the US gun laws are messed up beyond madness.

Could you expand on your post?

You remind me of a Bernie-Bro when asked how Trump is like Hitler.




ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!!

[RampageBW1]

You do understand that mental competency can be a fluid thing right?

He obviously was suffering medically, which could reduce his ability to properly function.

It very well could be that he wasn't of sound mind and was just acting on instinct thinking he was defending himself.

It is obvious that talks of guns triggers an aggressive and belligerent tone and reasoning, but let's try to have a rational discussion.

How about this then:

Since he was found to be medically incompetent at the time of the incident, the authorities confiscate his guns. Which, after 90 days, or if he can prove he's medically competent, he can gain access to his guns again (under the stipulation that he sticks to his medicine regimen for his medical condition so he lowers the chance of becoming medically incompetent again).

Would that be acceptable? probably not

[Nillah]

Absolutely he should. You should never shoot through a door at someone without actually seeing that they are without a doubt breaking in, and really not even then.

I also have no idea why there weren't police officers there also, in my county fire departments can't force entry without officers being with them which is really smart.

[Deleted]

How about this then:

Since he was found to be medically incompetent at the time of the incident, the authorities confiscate his guns. Which, after 90 days, or if he can prove he's medically competent, he can gain access to his guns again (under the stipulation that he sticks to his medicine regimen for his medical condition so he lowers the chance of becoming medically incompetent again).

Would that be acceptable? probably not

This would be a very hard thing to stipulate for someone who is a type I diabetic and who might be prone to confusion, fear or aggression when hypoglycaemic. For some this can be an extremely unusual "one off" event, and for some, a regular occurrence (most usually when adherence to treatment and eating is poor). The most organised of diabetics might have hypos with 100% compliance due to changes in exertion, or weather, or unusual activity during the day that impacts upon their needs for insulin and nutrition. It isn't like they are prescribed "a medication" at "a dose" and they will be fine. Much of it is to do with how well they can monitor their levels and anticipate the onset of a hypo especially around any nonregular activity or eating or change in routine (airports see a lot of diabetic hypos for these reasons). For some this can take a long time for them to be able to do well unless they live day after day the same. A common presentation is someone that hasn't even realised they have got to the point that their functioning is impaired or that it is at all unreasonable that they were trying to drink from a toilet bowl (common, as extreme thirst may be a symptom) and will refuse glucose and you can end up shovelling glucose paste onto their gums while they try to chomp at your fingers or flail haymakers at you thinking they are being unreasonably molested. ") minutes later they might be perfectly reasonable again. Often they have poor recall of the episode.

[Bathory]

hey he stood his ground right? Castle doctrine.

[Rukh]

If the firefighters had guns too this wouldn't have happened.

[Deleted]

Depends on if his hearing was impaired. he may not have heard them identify themselves. Also, anyone can just say " I'm a firefighter, I'm coming in". Why should he believe them?

I imagine that they`ll turn in up a somewhat large fire engine or two, not overly easy to miss.
I`m more confused as to why fire engines & not an ambulance or police being called out.

[Talsar]

No, we don't have a person who goes around asking if people are sane and determining if they can keep a gun. What are you, daft?

"Oh hey, you bought this hand gun 30 years ago... Do you still have it? Are you mentally sound?" Yup, cuz that's a thing.

it's like you've never heard of the concept of licencing and renewal of licenses.