ultra fast pulling tanks in dungeons

[Normie]

I have a problem with the tanks pulling literally non stop till the end of the dungeon, putting me the healer at the edge of my seat to not stay behind. I don't have a problem with fast tanks, I enjoy them. What I dislike is faster than fast. They don't even give me time to loot quest items. Yes it is leveling dungeons. I usually have to lay on hands them to save them, and 1-2 times even that wasn't enough to save the day. It is very stressful to me who is a 11 year player. I can't imagine how horrifying it would be to a relative new player.

As a healer you shouldn't have much of a queue to worry about if you get kicked, so proceed at your own pace, stop to loot as necessary, stop for mana as necessary, and either the tank will carry on without you, or the tank and the rest of the group will have to rez and catch up to you.

Many tanks can do leveling instances without heals as long as there is DPS killing stuff so I wouldn't necessarily worry about healing if you have a gogogo tank.

[Dracodraco]

If your goal is really to level fast you wouldn't be doing it with other low level groups. The right way to level fast is by stacking the raf bonus with both of hte low level exp pots/elixirs (the ones you can buy for gold & the ones dropped from the MoP rares) and then then have your main either run them through the whole dungeon or just the last boss when appropriate for the end of dungeon exp boost. There's a video explaining how to do it on youtube (something like 1-90 in 90 minutes). You literally can earn 3-6 levels using that method & having your main one shot the last boss of many dungeons. If you're doing with heirlooms & pugs you're doing it wrong.

If I were to do RAF, I'd need an entire second account which costs money. That alone makes what you're saying apply to only people that are so rich that they can afford to throw money on second accounts to level quicker (and at that point, they might aswell just buy a level 100 instant boost instead).
Watching through the video that you suggest, that dude is using *three* accounts. The "1-90" is also a technicality, because, as he explains in the video, he's logging out of the characters he's boosting while the main is flying to the next dungeon in order to summon them - not to mention that he's running through the dungeons on the main, then logging onto the characters only for the EXP boost, just to save /played time.

So lets make this entirely clear, just so you understand: THIS IS NOT THE QUICKEST WAY TO LEVEL. THIS IS THE WAY TO GET THE LOWEST /PLAYED TIME. The actual time he spent levelling is however much time it took him from creating the characters, till he hit 90 - including the time they're logged out waiting for him to set shit up on the main character.


You understand? Good. With that out of the way, the fastest way to level after you hit burning crusade is indeed to get boosted by someone - because of the way dungeons were streamlined in TBC and onwards (being easy to get to/close together, a direct path through the dungeon, 2-3 specific dungeon quests done easily while running through), and I usually get a friend to do this for me when levelling - the completion of dungeon bonus will account for about 40% of the exp, the quests another 30% exp, and the clearing of trash with me following my friend about 30% in most dungeons.

With that being said, level 15-58, you do through the random dungeon finder and hope you get a good group - the time spent travelling between dungeons is extreme if you're getting boosted by a friend, making it not worth their (or your) time compared to insta-queues. There's not a quicker way to do it unless you've got multiple accounts to RAF (and are willing to spend IRL money), or alternatively, have atleast three friends that are willing to boost you (one to clear the dungeon, two to get to the next dungeon and summon you when the current one finishes).

I've got friends, but I'd never fucking dream of asking them to do this. Spend 2 hrs carrying me through all the TBC+WOTLk dungeons, 5 stonecore runs and a few MOP dungeons? Sure, I'll pay back the favor next week for him, we both go away with levels 60-90 done in a few hours, everyone's happy.

So, conclusion:

If my goal really is to level fast, I'll be using the random dungeon finder to get groups and rush through them as a tank spec that can solo the dungeons while doing 80% of the damage. It is by far the quickest and most efficient way to go about it, unless you're willing to spend money on RAF accounts or willing to involve 3 of your friends in the process.

[Mackeyser]

I used to tank a ton and frankly, I prefer to tank, but I haven't played much and my best geared toons are mostly LFR toons that are DPS (MM hunter).

Been playing since 2006 and was one of the first Pally tanks on my server when patch 2.1 hit.

I've read almost every entry in this thread and I've thought quite a lot on this topic and what I've noticed since my days of spending dozens of hours a week tanking dungeons and raids in TBC, and WotLK was the community and the desire to play WITH people.

What do we read and hear now?

"you don't need tanks..."

"you don't need healers..."

"you can solo this content, anyway..."

I really devoted so much time to this game because it was a social game. Where did that go? I know I've pulled away from the game lately, but the last year I actively played, outside of raids, the game held so little interaction that my time just felt...lonely. I won't get into how LFR/LFD killed all of that, but... I believe it did. Folks had to at least make an effort to be social.

I'm not the best at being social, but I can be pretty good at it if given a chance. However, what chance is there in today's WoW?

Trade? Um...no.

Randoms? Rarely. I'm lucky if anyone will even respond to "hello", let alone responded in way that let you know you were playing WITH others. That goes for random dungeons and raids.

Some guilds work, but far too often, players see other players as NPCs that either help or suck, not as other players that help to make the gaming world.

So, the micro issue of "how fast is too fast", well, I dunno if there's an answer because there's a bigger question: Do most players even want to play with anyone else? If they could solo all of WoW, would they? I mean, it's one thing to enjoy the challenge of soloing old content, but is WoW even a social game anymore?

I dunno about that. I think the "community" players have mostly left and the current player base seems to be very content with farms/Garrisons/Class Order Halls + dailies + randoms, none of which require players to even know another player. Some raid in guilds and others seem content to either pug or just leave it at LFR.

I honestly miss tanking, but not as much as I miss the interaction with an active guild and an active world environment.

What I don't miss is being treated as if I were a Blizz employee as a tank, there for no other purpose than to make dps happy because they had long queues. Don't miss not being allowed to enjoy even a moment of tanking because essentially, randoms aren't about enjoyment. Over that last two years, I've read countless times that the goal is to get "the chore" over as fast as possible.

I dunno. It never used to be a chore. I really, REALLY used to enjoy it. I did Heroic Shattered Halls every day in TBC and wasn't a chore. I did plenty of stuff every day in LK and wasn't a chore. I used to laugh and have tons of fun and corresponded with actual people in all parts of the US and other countries as well. I was conscientious. I was always prepared even for random dungeon runs. I took the time to teach and train new players because that was fun.

I think the entire question of ultra fast tanks or even "how fast is too fast" maybe misses the point. A huge part of why folks are trying to go fast is that the content and the company isn't something the players want to spend time in or with.

I'm not really sure how Multiplayer WoW still is or even if most players WANT it to be...thus, when so many players queue for Randoms or engage in activities where other players, often the resultant reaction is that other players are an annoyance and a hindrance.

I don't get it. I sorta thought other players were part of what made the game special. Now it seems like other players seem to be seen as obstacles. If that's the case, I'm not really sure it'll matter how fast a tank goes, eventually it'll never be fast enough.

[Henriksson]

If you as a tank in leveling dungeons dont have atleast 10+ mobs trailing after you then you dishonor famirry

[Hatorri]

I used to tank a ton and frankly, I prefer to tank, but I haven't played much and my best geared toons are mostly LFR toons that are DPS (MM hunter).

Been playing since 2006 and was one of the first Pally tanks on my server when patch 2.1 hit.

I've read almost every entry in this thread and I've thought quite a lot on this topic and what I've noticed since my days of spending dozens of hours a week tanking dungeons and raids in TBC, and WotLK was the community and the desire to play WITH people.

What do we read and hear now?

"you don't need tanks..."

"you don't need healers..."

"you can solo this content, anyway..."

I really devoted so much time to this game because it was a social game. Where did that go? I know I've pulled away from the game lately, but the last year I actively played, outside of raids, the game held so little interaction that my time just felt...lonely. I won't get into how LFR/LFD killed all of that, but... I believe it did. Folks had to at least make an effort to be social.

I'm not the best at being social, but I can be pretty good at it if given a chance. However, what chance is there in today's WoW?

Trade? Um...no.

Randoms? Rarely. I'm lucky if anyone will even respond to "hello", let alone responded in way that let you know you were playing WITH others. That goes for random dungeons and raids.

Some guilds work, but far too often, players see other players as NPCs that either help or suck, not as other players that help to make the gaming world.

So, the micro issue of "how fast is too fast", well, I dunno if there's an answer because there's a bigger question: Do most players even want to play with anyone else? If they could solo all of WoW, would they? I mean, it's one thing to enjoy the challenge of soloing old content, but is WoW even a social game anymore?

I dunno about that. I think the "community" players have mostly left and the current player base seems to be very content with farms/Garrisons/Class Order Halls + dailies + randoms, none of which require players to even know another player. Some raid in guilds and others seem content to either pug or just leave it at LFR.

I honestly miss tanking, but not as much as I miss the interaction with an active guild and an active world environment.

What I don't miss is being treated as if I were a Blizz employee as a tank, there for no other purpose than to make dps happy because they had long queues. Don't miss not being allowed to enjoy even a moment of tanking because essentially, randoms aren't about enjoyment. Over that last two years, I've read countless times that the goal is to get "the chore" over as fast as possible.

I dunno. It never used to be a chore. I really, REALLY used to enjoy it. I did Heroic Shattered Halls every day in TBC and wasn't a chore. I did plenty of stuff every day in LK and wasn't a chore. I used to laugh and have tons of fun and corresponded with actual people in all parts of the US and other countries as well. I was conscientious. I was always prepared even for random dungeon runs. I took the time to teach and train new players because that was fun.

I think the entire question of ultra fast tanks or even "how fast is too fast" maybe misses the point. A huge part of why folks are trying to go fast is that the content and the company isn't something the players want to spend time in or with.

I'm not really sure how Multiplayer WoW still is or even if most players WANT it to be...thus, when so many players queue for Randoms or engage in activities where other players, often the resultant reaction is that other players are an annoyance and a hindrance.

I don't get it. I sorta thought other players were part of what made the game special. Now it seems like other players seem to be seen as obstacles. If that's the case, I'm not really sure it'll matter how fast a tank goes, eventually it'll never be fast enough.

One of the best post i have read for long time now, all that you say it hits me to the heart, its what i feel for the game and im here for LOOOONNNGGG time (vanila)for the 1st time after 11 yrs im playing this game i felt like "why to keep playing? next expansion how more will damage the game i loved for so many years? i feel like the heads of Blizzard to whatever they can to make ppl not play wow.

[Incarnia]

It can be annoying, but only if the tank isn't prepared (or skilled enough) to deal with "oh shit the healer isn't in range" moments. Most groups is filled with heirloom geared alts, so usually they will manage just fine without you (the healer) for a while. But if you do feel it stresses you out when you got quests in there, just tell in advance that the tank might need to wait a few seconds every now and then for you to catch up - because you need to do the quests.
Another tip is, try to stay slightly ahead of the tank all the time or just right beside him. Don't stand at the back of the group, you'll easily end up falling behind. Enchant your cloak too if you haven't already. If a dps isn't in range for a heal, well, that is his problem. You focus on keeping close to the tank

[Djuntas]

In this thread somebody is complaining about my tanking when doing last weekends Time Walking.

I pull fast - Infact I pull so fast I cant garantue aggro control. Some people hate that, but Im there to finish fast, and only care about the healers welfare

[Deleted]

I Always play as DPS, i understand what you guys are saying, but i have to be honest, i have found three or four tanks like this doing TW with my chars this weekend and i have had a lot of fun with those speed of light runs.
As long as the guy knows what he is doing and the group is capable of following his pace and play accordingly to the style i am totally ok with it.

[Orangetai420]

Yeah of course, it's completely ridiculous and has nothing to do with any kind of proper gaming experience.

I hate those guys of course, I think they're stinking assholes and the scum of the earth. And for the record, it's OK to hate them, because they hate themselves and the game. They don't wanna play, they want to be through with it. Big difference.

But then again - crap swims to the surface. Can't blame them when the game is so dysfunctional that it allows that kind of "gameplay" in the first place. Therein lies the root of the problem.

Yea bro, there's a lot of game to play in leveling dungeons

Maybe if they weren't soloable you would have a valid point. There is 0 challenge in a leveling dungeon unless you create it - by pulling fast and hard. I see it exactly the opposite - if you aren't mongoloid pulling you aren't actually playing the game - you are just taking a walk and checking out the scenery.

I play healers ~75% of the time. If the tank doesn't pull like crazy I get bored because there is otherwise no point for me being there - a tank can sustain without me unless they pull the entire room.

[Pull My Finger]

Yea bro, there's a lot of game to play in leveling dungeons

Maybe if they weren't soloable you would have a valid point.

It seems that one part escaped your notice where I said "Can't blame them when the game is so dysfunctional that it allows that kind of "gameplay" in the first place. Therein lies the root of the problem." You quoted it though. Maybe it has something to do with this "mongoloid" thing which unfortunately I'm not familiar with, who knows?

[Orangetai420]

It seems that one part escaped your notice where I said "Can't blame them when the game is so dysfunctional that it allows that kind of "gameplay" in the first place. Therein lies the root of the problem." You quoted it though. Maybe it has something to do with this "mongoloid" thing which unfortunately I'm not familiar with, who knows?

You're right, I saw you calling players seeking a challenge "stinking assholes" and that "you hate them" and started seeing red.

[Raelbo]

Can't blame them when the game is so dysfunctional that it allows that kind of "gameplay" in the first place. Therein lies the root of the problem.

Sorry, but I am going to disagree with you and I will blame the bad player (in this case the tank who is pulling too fast).

The fact is that different players enjoy playing the game at different paces. Since dungeons are a multiplayer experience, it is up to the participants to make sure that they play nicely with fellow participants. In this case it means setting a pace according to what is comfortable for the group, not according to how fast the tank can pull.

You can't blame the game for allowing the players to dictate the pace, because the game needs to accomodate both groups that are comfortable with a tank who is pulling ultra fast, and a group that requires a more relaxed pace. And, simply put, the only rational way for determining the appropriate pace is to allow the group to figure out what that pace is. It's not unreasonable to expect a tank to consider others in the group when he/she sets the pace.

- - - Updated - - -

I Always play as DPS, i understand what you guys are saying, but i have to be honest, i have found three or four tanks like this doing TW with my chars this weekend and i have had a lot of fun with those speed of light runs.
As long as the guy knows what he is doing and the group is capable of following his pace and play accordingly to the style i am totally ok with it.

Basically what was bolded.

The problem is that some tanks just don't seem to care at all about the rest of the group. When a tank completely disregards the other players in the group, that kind of selfishness/narcissm makes him/her a bad tank.

It's funny that you should mention the TW weekend because I had a rather mixed experience. I queued with 2 guildies and we got Vortex Pinnacle first up, grouped with a healer and tank who I assume were together. We said hi, the others said hi, and we proceeded at a pretty fast pace through the instance. It's an easy instance and my guildies and I are pretty decent dpsers, while the tank and healer also seemed pretty competent.

Anyhow after defeating Asaad, we asked if they wanted to do another, we requeued and got Grim Batol. Of course the tank runs off and immediately pulls 2 packs and seems like he might continue pulling, to which I request, "please don't pull so much". The fact is that Grim Batol is a tougher instance and the possibility of a wipe is real if you're reckless. I would rather take it at a more reasonable pace than have to waste time running back and waste gold on repairs.

So how did the tank respond? "Just shut up"

He then followed it up with "Did you even do this when it was current"? (I did) "You know nothing of difficulty". He then left the instance, followed shortly by the healer.

Sorry, but that person is a complete douche, clearly lacking in empathy and with some kind of narcissistic personality disorder. There is no excuse for treating other players with such contempt.

Funnily enough, the next day I landed up in the same instance with my DK tank and at some point I made a comment to effect of "nice healing and dps ". Immediately someone responded by saying something to the effect of "Wow, a tank that actually isn't a dick <3". Needless to say the rest of the instance was chilled, with some decent banter going on. We cleared it without hassle, not in record time, but at a decent pace, and I would say that everyone actually enjoyed ourselves during the experience

[xindralol]

In this thread somebody is complaining about my tanking when doing last weekends Time Walking.

I pull fast - Infact I pull so fast I cant garantue aggro control. Some people hate that, but Im there to finish fast, and only care about the healers welfare

pretty much

if the tank dies, it's the healer's fault
if the healer dies, it's the tank's fault
if the dps dies, it's their own fault

too many baddies still polluting even heroic dungeons. if you can't keep up with the tank you're clearly doing something wrong. but instead of complaining you should enjoy the carry
i wish they put proving grounds gold on heroics or something and timewalking as well
keep the trash out of my dungeons

[Pull My Finger]

Sorry, but I am going to disagree with you and I will blame the bad player (in this case the tank who is pulling too fast).

The fact is that different players enjoy playing the game at different paces. Since dungeons are a multiplayer experience, it is up to the participants to make sure that they play nicely with fellow participants. In this case it means setting a pace according to what is comfortable for the group, not according to how fast the tank can pull.

But you can't expect people to govern the quality of their interaction, and this case proves that very well. It's kind of disturbing, but people are like that. They always end up being idiots in way or another, especially if you put a lot of them in one place, and then leave them to themselves. Societies need boundaries and direction, as disheartening as it sounds. One jerk is all it takes to ruin in for everyone, and you WILL run into that jerk frequently in any game.

You can't blame the game for allowing the players to dictate the pace, because the game needs to accomodate both groups that are comfortable with a tank who is pulling ultra fast, and a group that requires a more relaxed pace. And, simply put, the only rational way for determining the appropriate pace is to allow the group to figure out what that pace is. It's not unreasonable to expect a tank to consider others in the group when he/she sets the pace.

Not sure if "blaming" is the right word, but I do believe that good gameplay can only be there if the game steers players towards it. Of course it's not unreasonable to expect people to consider their fellow players. But at any time you'll have plenty of people who don't give a fuck. IF there's a possibility to negate "proper" gameplay, be it because someone thinks it's funny or faster or "more optimal", less "wasting time", or perhaps because they think pissing off others is the funnest thing in the world - they'll do it. So even though you could say that bad attitudes are the problem - you'll never gonna make those go away. But what you can do is to surpress them from the get-go, by designing content that doesn't allow leeway for overboard douchebaggery.

[Deleted]

I usually try to votekick those tanks midbossfight or just let them die before it comes to that. Couldn't care less about glaring words one recieves in whisper..


"l2p scrub!/l2heal/omg why do u playyy" etc Can see a furiours teenage kid really going at it and raging at me ..whilst I don't rly care.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

As tank, I usually feel out the group (including heals) over the first couple of pulls and adjust my pace accordingly.

[Deleted]

If the tank doesn't pull fast enough, I pull for him. Nothing worse than having a staring contest with trash mobs.

You can spot a tank who adjusts to the group pace within the first few pulls.

[Demeter]

Some players you just cant fix, anyone can tank but only some can tank well.

[Deleted]

I pull fast - Infact I pull so fast I cant garantue aggro control.

Then to put it simply, you are not doing your job as a tank.

[Dracodraco]

Then to put it simply, you are not doing your job as a tank.

Depends. Take Grimrail as an example. I pull the entire train on my tanks, pop tank ring and go full-out AOE pulling +1M dps. It's much quicker than doing each pack seperately. But if some overzealous hunter decides to try and snipe a single mob down with chimera, aimed and killshots, I can't guarantee my bloodboil+diseases will keep aggro on it. His fault for jumping the gun early. Not mine.