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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsc View Post
    Here is how the commie /corporate/fascist scam works..

    For years companys big and small pay lobby money to "take care" of things with the .gov. The commie scum big .gov say "hey you are paying all of this lobby money we'll just give you pork" So they do that, Big companys land gravy deals they co-wrote e.g. Zerocare. Next up no one is there looking out for the small companys, they get coerced via threat of audits and essentially go along and get taken out.

    in due time big gov, akin to Communism says hey why don't we just take over everything? so... they regulate and crush the existing companys forcing it all into the Communist big.gov hands.

    This is where we are now. exactly where people said it would end up.

    Headed to "Socialised" healthcare ran by beurocrats and big .gov that is responsible for the abysmal state of othe commie things like the VA and Social security...

    who incidentally couldn't launch a website that worked at the beginning iof the thing.

    The Leftist Commies cheer. they are foolish dolts, as we head to 3rd world healthcare, as Dr.s flee the practice and our healthcare gets on par with India.

    Hey we are a Global community, we deserve to live like shit just like a 3rd world country.


    Suckers.
    America has one of the worst healthcare systems in the first world, and the reason is almost entirely that it is left unregulated far too much. Capitalist goals are the singular reason why your healthcare system is headed toward third world and away from the rest of the (heavily regulated) first world countries that have good healthcare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    because paying the fine is way cheaper than insurance?
    Do you realise how dumb this is?

    Yes, paying a fine is cheaper than paying for insurance.. except that you don't have insurance.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    America has one of the worst healthcare systems in the first world, and the reason is almost entirely that it is left unregulated far too much. Capitalist goals are the singular reason why your healthcare system is headed toward third world and away from the rest of the (heavily regulated) first world countries that have good healthcare.

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    Do you realise how dumb this is?

    Yes, paying a fine is cheaper than paying for insurance.. except that you don't have insurance.
    If you don't make a lot of money and never get sick you would be better of not paying 200month for insurance and paying the 45 dollar fine

  3. #263
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by De thuong View Post
    It's not possible to starve in a first world country.
    It is.

    https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/201...tarve-say-dwp/

    After these changes to appeals come into effect, any claimants who disagrees with a decision made by Atos is likely to be forced to go without any benefit at all whilst ‘reconsiderations’ of their benefits take place. These people are not just already amongst the poorest in the country, but those with cancer, MS or other life threatening conditions.

    This appears to be a vindictive attempt to bring down the number of successful appeals against sickness benefit decisions which have been a continual embarrassment to both the current and the previous Labour governments.

    The new message from the DWP seems to be appeal if you want, but don’t expect to eat or heat your homes whilst you are waiting. The end of result of these changes will no doubt be less appeals. The price of that will be more people dying at the hands of this callous process, which increasingly seems precision-engineered to drive sick and disabled people into destitution.

    UPDATE 13/6/13: Clarification, the DWP say that claimants ‘may’ be paid at the assessment rate once the ‘mandatory reconsideration’ has taken place if they pursue an appeal. There is no time limit on how long this process can take and this depends on whether they are able to provide medical evidence to the Department.

  4. #264
    So many people living in this fantasy world where having health insurance means you won't be bankrupt if you get sick.

    Have any of you people even dealt with the medical or insurance industry?

    Do you really understand how much insurance costs, and what it really pays for?

  5. #265
    The notion that the largest expansion of Medicaid since the program's inception was devised by Republicans is laughably ahistorical.

    Literally the only commonality the ACA has with healthcare policies preferred by The Heritage Foundation is the mandate. That's it. Heritage did not propose any new regulations on the insurance industry (such as guaranteed issue, community rating, requiring coverage of check-ups without out-of-pocket costs, or establish minimum coverage standards). Heritage did not expand the prescription drug program under Medicare Part D - because Medicare Part D didn't exist at the time.

    What Heritage did propose was block-granting Medicaid to the states, turning Medicare into a voucher system, remove every tax incentives employers have for enrolling employees in group policies, and imposing an individual mandate to buy plans with extraordinarily high out-of-pocket costs and only catastrophic-level coverage.

    As for the HEART Act, labeling that piece of legislation as "Republican" depends on the faulty assumption that Sen. John Chafee, the man who authored it, represented the average Republican member of the Senate in 1993 when, in actuality, he was one of the last liberal Republicans to serve in the body. Only a trivial number of Republicans ever supported it, and those non-Chafee Republicans who did treated it like a Potemkin proposal that they had no real interest in actually passing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    If you don't make a lot of money and never get sick you would be better of not paying 200month for insurance and paying the 45 dollar fine
    Praying you don't get hit by a car is kind of a plan for controlling personal medical costs but, personally, I'd rather have coverage.

  6. #266
    Went 4 months last year without health insurance, ended up having to pay $240 for the fine. The absolute cheapest insurance I could have found was $90 a month. Two months ago, I had to go to the hospital due to appendicitis. I have all the other medical bills paid off, but that $10k Hospital bill is going to screw me for a while. All-in-all it was about $16k.

    I am only 24 and thought I would save so much money because I am healthy by not buying health insurance. RIP.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Slybak View Post
    The notion that the largest expansion of Medicaid since the program's inception was devised by Republicans is laughably ahistorical.

    Literally the only commonality the ACA has with healthcare policies preferred by The Heritage Foundation is the mandate. That's it. Heritage did not propose any new regulations on the insurance industry (such as guaranteed issue, community rating, requiring coverage of check-ups without out-of-pocket costs, or establish minimum coverage standards). Heritage did not expand the prescription drug program under Medicare Part D - because Medicare Part D didn't exist at the time.

    What Heritage did propose was block-granting Medicaid to the states, turning Medicare into a voucher system, remove every tax incentives employers have for enrolling employees in group policies, and imposing an individual mandate to buy plans with extraordinarily high out-of-pocket costs and only catastrophic-level coverage.

    As for the HEART Act, labeling that piece of legislation as "Republican" depends on the faulty assumption that Sen. John Chafee, the man who authored it, represented the average Republican member of the Senate in 1993 when, in actuality, he was one of the last liberal Republicans to serve in the body. Only a trivial number of Republicans ever supported it, and those non-Chafee Republicans who did treated it like a Potemkin proposal that they had no real interest in actually passing.

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    Praying you don't get hit by a car is kind of a plan for controlling personal medical costs but, personally, I'd rather have coverage.
    You get hit by a car, their insurance will cover your medical cost

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Yes, paying a fine is cheaper than paying for insurance.. except that you don't have insurance.
    Fun Fact: You can save lots of money by never eating.

  9. #269
    The fine needs to much higher so this nonsense will stop.
    Atoms are liars, they make up everything!

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    Looked into the plans available for me and they were honestly ridiculous. Extremely high deductibles, crap coverage even after the deductible, and the rates were absurd. To get an even remotely decent plan, it would have been taking on more than a car payment. It would cost me far less to take the fine at the end of the year than pay for the plan.
    Yep.
    I had an HMO years earlier that I paid $32/month and had full coverage on everything, zero deductible. After the ACA that was changed to an "EPO" and the best deal I could get was over 5x that cost for "select" coverage, $5500 deductible. Hell, if anything did happen to me I'd probably wonder what it is I'm paying for since I still had to pay that shitty deductible first...and then there's the monthly bill for the insurance to begin with.
    Fuck that. Far cheaper to pay the penalty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryos View Post
    The fine needs to much higher so this nonsense will stop.
    What was nonsense, indeed outright stupidity, was signing something into law without any means to control the Health Insurance lobby.
    But, that's what happens when you let them helped write the law. And...they're allowed to leave the exchanges if it proves unprofitable.

  11. #271
    I have a pretty good insurance story, and I work at a doctor's office. The irony. Anyway my employers health insurance is Aetna with an 80$ urgent care copay and a 6600$ deductible that applies to everything else. On top of what would be taken from my check. Can't afford it while going to 2 schools and praying to the flying spaghetti monster that I get into PA school next month. So I start looking into Obama care. The website says my income is too low and they won't sell me a plan, and that I should inquire about Medicaid. So I did that, and was told that because I'm a veteran, I have to go through the VA to be either provided or denied coverage before anything else can happen. The next step was to enroll with the VA. After about 10-12 phone calls and filling out a mountain of paperwork that I mailed off to Missouri, I thought I was good. Turns out after 8 months of checking and waiting and calling, they never got any of my paperwork or just lost it. It gets better too! A couple weeks ago I broke down because my back is killing me. So I go to the local VA office after talking to a lady there on the phone who told me to come down. I get there only to find out that the lady who enrolls people left for a town hall meeting and wouldn't be back until Monday. When I started to ask a question, I was interrupted by another person behind the desk, and the two started a conversation and totally ignored me. So I turned around and walked out.

    So. Here I am. I paid my fine, I have pain, high BP, high cholesterol (I'm only 32 but it's hardcore heredity on those), currently have bronchitis, and I have no Healthcare options that I know of. Ain't America great?
    Last edited by Ayaz2810; 2016-04-19 at 12:59 PM.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    I was raised knowing that having insurance was just a thing you did. Before the ACA, sudden medical bills were the #1 source of bankruptcy, at over 2/3 of all personal bankruptcies occurring due to someone without insurance suddenly being hospitalized.
    IMO, this is part of the problem. Pre-conditioning that it is part of life to buy health insurance. Hospitals and Insurance Companies know they have you over a barrel as there isn't a price that can be placed on "health" or "life", and you don't get to negotiate fees up front, so a simple PCP visit that leads to you having to see a specialist to run half a dozen tests, can cost $5,000 and the individual had no say in the matter, and still have the chance the doc can shrug their shoulders and I say "I dunno what's wrong with you".

    So you end up with the greed of the hospitals and insurance companies pushing insurance to cost more than folks house payment. Insurance I haven't used in over 2 years is the single biggest line item in my monthly budget and I don't have a choice (pre or post ACA) on whether I want to get it.

    As much as I hate to have to go back to Military / VA style government healthcare (long waits, impersonal / borderline rude service, etc.), I don't really see a good alternative as healthcare costs continue to escalate.
    Last edited by Ragedaug; 2016-04-19 at 01:08 PM.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    OP: You are exactly what is wrong with our insurance market. You believe it to be cheaper to pay the fine and out of pocket for dental work, so you don't get insurance. Now fast forward a few months, you are in a serious accident and are hospitalized. Congrats on life-crippling debt while the rest of us pay for you!
    Screw you dude. I got laid off last year so I lost my benefits In the process and I'm a contractor now with none. If you think I'll pay for these garbage plans with $6000 deductibles when I had company provided benefits before you can forget about that. Oh I did have a plan for a month before it was canceled and the choices now are even worse.

    The Healthcare act is just awful.
    Last edited by matt4pack; 2016-04-19 at 01:06 PM.

  14. #274
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayaz2810 View Post
    So. Here I am. I paid my fine, I have pain, high BP, high cholesterol (I'm only 32 but it's hardcore heredity on those), currently have bronchitis, and I have no Healthcare options that I know of. Ain't America great?
    In a socialised system you might be kept going back and forward without being diagnosed until you get sick properly.

    Don't you have the option of treating yourself in the US?

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffyman View Post
    In a socialised system you might be kept going back and forward without being diagnosed until you get sick properly.

    Don't you have the option of treating yourself in the US?
    I can treat my symptoms, but my head is all clogged and I'm draining mucus like mad. Plus my cough is starting to get pretty productive. Anyway I'm worried about a bacterial infection more so than a virus. But as far as treating a bacterial condition or anything beyond a cold, not much I can do. All the good shit is prescription only.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    What was nonsense, indeed outright stupidity, was signing something into law without any means to control the Health Insurance lobby.
    But, that's what happens when you let them helped write the law. And...they're allowed to leave the exchanges if it proves unprofitable.
    Thank the Republicans for trying everything to ruin the concept from the start. The reform needs a reform and I hope Hillary will be able to bring the US healthcare system Obama finally started to western european standards. It would bring down the costs, too.

    Examples:

    Liver Transplant Cost in The United States – Around 750.000 USD
    Liver Transplant Cost in Germany – Around 300.000 USD
    Liver Transplant Cost in the UK – Around 80.000 USD

    Germany and the UK have a highly regulated healthcare sector and any liver transplant surgery must follow certain EU guidelines and rules. Living-donor liver transplants are preferred, as these ensure a higher rate of post-operatory success. Patients usually spend around two weeks in hospital and are kept under observation for a few years after the procedure is performed.

    So it's a better system and the usual greed and profit-before-humans thinking needs to be stopped in the healhcare sector. It's also better for the quality of the workforce. So while the healthcare sector does not make many people filthy rich in western europe, the people who don't fear for the damocles sword of healthcare costs work better since they won't try to work with untreated sicknesses and problems. It's better for the whole society.
    Last edited by Kryos; 2016-04-19 at 01:54 PM.
    Atoms are liars, they make up everything!

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryos View Post
    Thank the Republicans for trying everything to ruin the concept from the start. The reform needs a reform and I hope Hillary will be able to bring the US healthcare system Obama finally started to european (i.e. german) standards.
    The whole concept was shit from the start. What exactly did Republicans do that ruined Obamacare? Not one damn thing

  18. #278
    Problem being is that they shouldn't punish people for not buying into their shitty insurance ideas...

  19. #279
    Legendary! Vizardlorde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slybak View Post
    Fun Fact: You can save lots of money by never eating.
    Thats what im doing i never go out inever eat out i only eat when my stomach growls so much that it hurts i only buy the most basic necessities but im still broke with only 8 k in the bank after 9 mnths of work

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    The whole concept was shit from the start. What exactly did Republicans do that ruined Obamacare? Not one damn thing
    They took the Public Option off the table.

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