3 tiers in 3 years

[Polarthief]

We can throw away ZG from Vanilla because of being sub-40ppl. Naxx, because only very few % have seen it, so for majority it was non-existent. So it's 3 tiers for most raiders in Vanilla.

Except there was plenty for non-raiders to do. You should just throw Vanilla away altogether because so few even raided anyways.

Regardless, this proves that WoD is shite and Blizz should be ashamed of themselves for this atrocity (on top of the fact that there's NOTHING TO DO).

[manypillars]

both classic and tbc are a bit hard to evaluate compared to later expansions due to the progression system they had in place.

Especially vanilla as it was a brand new game with a brand new, expansive game world where you were expected to linger. Or at least take more than a week or two to cap out.

[Morbownz]

You think you want more tiers, but you don't.

[ro9ue]

Yep. That is exactly what is going on here.

Reduce their costs by producing fewer raids, fewer dungeons, simplifying character abilities (first with talents, then with actual abilities), etc to move from amazing profits to shockingly amazing profits. Simple greed story.

I've seen nothing from the reports of people in Legion Alpha that indicates that this trend is turning around in the least. Heck, they've moved to the next stage by not only reducing abilities further, but simplifying weapons to one per class / spec. The new class will only have 2 specs. Class halls are minor tweaks on the World of Menucraft garrison.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I think you're a bit misguided.

1. 2 specs for the new class: Maybe there just wasn't a good fit for a 3rd. So instead of fudging in a bullshit 3rd spec (and 3 really isn't a solid standard since druids have 4), they just decided to do 2 really good ones.

2. 1 weapon for each spec sounds like nothing but consider that there are 36 weapons, each with 6 distinct weapon skins and then 4 colors each... that's 800+ weapon designs.

3. Some classes actually have MORE abilities if you choose to talent for it. No one has less abilities. They only redesigned specs to have a lower base number but you can choose to talent for passives or take all actives. If you take all actives you probably will have more buttons than you currently do on live in some cases.

4. Class halls are NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING like Garrisons. 1) You aren't alone in your garrison. 2) Each class has it's OWN unique look - that's 12 Order Halls vs 2 (TWO) faction garrisons. 3) The mission table thing is way overblown. It's like a mini mission table from the garrisons, and it's not tied to anything important. Not to mention the Garrison in it of itself ISN'T a bad thing in WoD, it's just that it was the ONLY thing. If we have World Quests, endless progression in Mythic+ dungeons, solid reputations, Artifact progression and Order Hall campaigns... the mission table will just be a small portion of what the end game is.

[Wingerie]

Except there was plenty for non-raiders to do. You should just throw Vanilla away altogether because so few even raided anyways.

Regardless, this proves that WoD is shite and Blizz should be ashamed of themselves for this atrocity (on top of the fact that there's NOTHING TO DO).

Yeah, it's pretty much more streamlined to raiding nowadays. But I wouldn't want to have vanilla leveling again, for example. I've dropped two first characters at 40-50 level range just because of fatigue. And, again, for vanilla they had way more time to make all this content. And it was simpler content itself too. Etc etc.

[Deleted]

You think you want content, but you dont, what you want is FACEBOOK GAMES

[ro9ue]

Well I made this, I think it's self-explanatory.

Ehh not a good representation.

ZG isn't it's own tier.

ZA isn't it's own tier.

Ruby fucking Sanctum CERTAINLY isn't it's own tier.


If you want to make the argument those things we're nice interior patch content between raid tiers... fine, but the way you are depicting them by giving them their own segment is misleading.

[manypillars]

You think you want more tiers, but you don't.

I'm assuming this is a silly reply, but it's an interesting issue. To a degree I was kind of OK with a longer than norm bare patch of content after the last tier because it was a nice catch up time to take care of unfinished business. Things like getting alts capped, professions finished, farming items and achievements you couldn't quite get to during progression and all.

And then WoD happened, and all the fucks I had to give melted away.

But crap, there's been breaks about a year in length since Wrath all the while talking about how that's unacceptable. Yet here we are four months out from Leg in a two tier expansion where we ground mobs, beat dead horses, and played Farmville for two years. I guess they did actually hit their one year expansion goal regardless of what they say since they really only put a year of updates into an expansion and then ignore it for the following year.

[Aggrophobic]

What makes you think that they have made a mistake?

I'm sure they can and want to do better. After playing the alpha for a few weeks, I'm not at all worried.

[FelPlague]

posting fake graphs isn't going to help your credibility. No place on this planet matches your graph. Are you claiming this is a daylight chart for an extreme point in azeroth? if so I call Hijinx, because azeroth is always daytime now.

no i just whent to google and look up graphs, and this popped up, does the exact same his does, like... we know... do we really need to make fourms about it?

[Heladys]

Unacceptable, no other word for it. They have to find a way to do better.

[FelPlague]

Maybe it's more you admitting you don't know how to read graphs/charts. It's pretty significant.

no its more of me saying, do we really need a fourm post about this? yes we know, this is like the millionth thread about the droudt... we know... do we really need MORE

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Ehh not a good representation.

ZG isn't it's own tier.

ZA isn't it's own tier.

Ruby fucking Sanctum CERTAINLY isn't it's own tier.


If you want to make the argument those things we're nice interior patch content between raid tiers... fine, but the way you are depicting them by giving them their own segment is misleading.

what this guy said... Ruby sanctum was NOT a teir, it was mostly a cataclysm pre-event... and even then a meh one... 1 boss 3 mini bosses... the loot was BIS mostly but nothing really interesting...

[Narzok]

in regards to the claim that classes are way easier to play today compared to classic: someone posted the worldfirst classic Raggi kill a few pages back. Look at the amount of skills the player, in this case a rogue, actively used. Nowadays you could bind every action of importance he did in that fight to a standart gaming mouse and do that boss without a keyboard.
Note that i am NOT talking about the difficulty of the encounter, but rather about the skill needed to play the class. So instead of complaining about boring class design, why not complain about bosses not being tuned as tight as before.

[Pann]

what this guy said... Ruby sanctum was NOT a teir, it was mostly a cataclysm pre-event... and even then a meh one... 1 boss 3 mini bosses... the loot was BIS mostly but nothing really interesting...

That does not change the fact that we used to get more content or should we just pretend that they used to release more in the past because someone labelled this content as a tier on a graph?

[Deleted]

I think its even worse if you look at the exact total raids.

-Vanilla had: 7 raids.
-The Burning Crusade had: 9 raids.
-Wrath of the Lich King had. 8 Raids
-Cataclysm had: 6 Raids
-Mists of Pandaria had: 5 Raids

Warlords of Draenor Raids only got 3 Raids…

In Legion we will have to do with 2 Raids, and they already got announced: Emerald Nightmare & Suramar Palace!

[FelPlague]

That does not change the fact that we used to get more content or should we just pretend that they used to release more in the past because someone labelled this content as a tier on a graph?

no. all of this is true.... but do we need thread after thread after threat after threat?

should we start a daily thread system where every day people make a thread "wod has been out 360 days" "wod has been out 361 days" "wod has been out 362 days" we know the game is in a drout, do we really need MORE news on it?

[Pann]

no. all of this is true.... but do we need thread after thread after threat after threat?

should we start a daily thread system where every day people make a thread "wod has been out 360 days" "wod has been out 361 days" "wod has been out 362 days" we know the game is in a drout, do we really need MORE news on it?

You know that no-one is forcing to read any threads? If you don't like them don't read them. Simple.

[FelPlague]

I think its even worse if you look at the exact total raids.

-Vanilla had: 7 raids.
-The Burning Crusade had: 9 raids.
-Wrath of the Lich King had. 8 Raids
-Cataclysm had: 6 Raids
-Mists of Pandaria had: 5 Raids

Warlords of Draenor Raids only got 3 Raids…

In Legion we will have to do with 2 Raids, and they already got announced: Emerald Nightmare & Suramar Palace!

those are launch raids.... vanilla dident launch with 7

also in BC magthoridans lair had 1 boss, tempest keep only 4, serphent only 6 so yeah higher, and gruuls only had 2, so make it more of 7 raids...

wrath had VOA that had only 1 boss at start, and added 1 per patch
ToC had only 5 bosses, and onyxias lair, obsidian sanctum, and ruby sanctum, all only had one boss, so set wrath to mabye 6

cata had tol barad that was only 1 boss per patch leading to three, and ruby BoT and BWL were low on count but also introduced the NEWER heroic setup, meaning technically more, so i would say mabye 4 1/2 raids for them

mists had the 4 boss raid of terrace other then that pretty decent sized raids, i would say 4 1/2 for them aswell

yeah wod with 3 raids (all decently sized) is super lame so we will see what amount of raids we get in legion

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You know that no-one is forcing to read any threads? If you don't like them don't read them. Simple.

yes your right there... but its still stupid as it fills the front page, and also look at the writers name... how has he not been banned yet?

also keep in mind the title is rather misleading as it skips abit of it, SoO was released september 10th, 2, allmost 3 years ago, so by the time there will have been "3 years with only 3 raids" legion will be out and 2 raids will be added to that... including the assault on the broken shore pre-event/raid

[Pann]

yes your right there... but its still stupid as it fills the front page, and also look at the writers name... how has he not been banned yet?

also keep in mind the title is rather misleading as it skips abit of it, SoO was released september 10th, 2, allmost 3 years ago, so by the time there will have been "3 years with only 3 raids" legion will be out and 2 raids will be added to that... including the assault on the broken shore pre-event/raid

I am not sure what you mean by filling up the front page. If you are referring to the Recent Forum Posts on the home page then this is a result of the thread's popularity, which you are adding to, if you are talking about the WoW General Discussion Page then I can only assume that you are exaggerating as there are not many threads like this.

I would also add that people are talking about this because Blizzard has failed to release as much content as previous expansions. Rather than trying to discredit those who point this out it would it not be better to simply ignore them if you disagree or failing that vent your frustration at Blizzard for causing the issue?

[Wingerie]

yeah wod with 3 raids (all decently sized) is super lame so we will see what amount of raids we get in legion

"More or less" isn't solid enough to count it properly, because it's too subjective.

Imo, we should count it by full raid tiers:

Vanilla: MC + BWL + AQ40 + Naxx = 4
BC: Gruul/Maggi + SSC/TK + Hyjal/BT + SWP = 4
WotLK: Naxx + Ulduar + ToC + ICC = 4
Cata: BoT/TotFW/BWD + FL + DS = 3
MoP: MV/HoF/ToES + ToT + SoO = 3
WoD: HM + BRF + HFC = 3

Or by number of encounters in xpac:

Vanilla: MC 10 + Ony 1 + BWL 8 + AQ40 9 + Naxx 16 = 44
BC: Gruul 2 + Maggi 1 + SSC 6 + TK 4 + Hyjal 5 + BT 9 + SWP 6 = 33
WotLK: Naxx 16 + EoE 1 + OS 1 + Ulduar 14 + ToC 5 + ICC 12 + Ony 1 + RS 1 = 51
Cata: BoT 5 + TotFW 2 + BWD 6 + FL 7 + DS 7 = 27
MoP: MV 6 + HoF 6 + ToES 4 + ToT 13 + SoO 14 = 43
WoD: HM 7 + BRF 10 + HFC 13 = 30

So in terms of quantity of raid content WoD is either the same as the last two addons, or stands at the same amount of encounters as Cata and BC. But I doubt many people will call BC a disaster.

WoW decline is a complex thing. You can't just say that's because of lack of raids, or because of garrisons or whatever else. It's complex. Period.