Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Perkunas]

I'll never understand why people equate tedium with challenge. Yeah, I totally miss killing one or two mobs then sitting and drinking for 30 seconds before repeating, so immersive and fun! Oops, pulled three things by accident, time for a corpse run, I am blessed by this time spent doing nothing of value.

Because everything in an MMO should take time and effort and the capped content isn't supposed to be the only content. I had more fun leveling in Wildstar this past winter than I have had in Warcraft in years. My friends quit though and I think the devs are getting ready scuttle the game. Otherwise I'd probably be playing that instead. I bloody despise the limited action set though. Granted, the leveling was also too fast for my tastes.

[MoanaLisa]

you can take it further. netease might license it as well for china to complement their existing retail version (a classic version was done for the9 anyway, and it may be backed up separately from the na/eu version.). this is a non-trivial potential revenue source. I don't know the (huge) chinese mmo market and don't know if this is something that might work.

Netease isn't going to do anything that Blizzard says no to. I'm pretty sure that if we could examine their agreement the games they run are licensed to them by Blizzard. If Blizzard won't approve of vanilla or any other sort of realm, Netease is very unlikely just to go off on their own and damage their relationship with Blizzard. That's fantasy.

[Kyanion]

Because everything in an MMO should take time and effort and the capped content isn't supposed to be the only content. I had more fun leveling in Wildstar this past winter than I have had in Warcraft in years. My friends quit though and I think the devs are getting ready scuttle the game.

That should tell you something about Wildstar and tedium in general. Everything in MMO shouldn't take time, some things sure but not everything. Having to blow up 200 wolves vs 75 wolves is just extra padding. I think Wildstar would be a prime example about making grinds take longer and having extra 'difficulty' and 'gating' for no good reason. This isn't 10 years ago and trying to prop Vanilla up would cause some people to run in terror from it.

[Deleted]

99% eh? First of all it shouldn't be the same price because they are having to provide extra work to make those things happen. And sure a chunk of people would check them out and then they'd stop fairly quickly. Vanilla might hook some returning players and it might shun some people that have been playing with a lot of the features they like. But you just can't say 99%. That is just trying to pad your case.

I think it should fall under the same sub fee tbh, i don't see why it wouldn't? From a business perspective and based on the effort imputed and possible monetary gain that only makes sense. Thus, based on the fact that it falls under the sub fee I think 99% is a logical assumption, who in their right mind wouldn't try something for 'free' basically, even if you most likely thought you wouldn't like it?

[Tipton]

I'll never understand why people equate tedium with challenge.

It's tedious when everything get's one shot, and it's more about trying to tag.. than any real game-play.

Yeah, I totally miss killing one or two mobs then sitting and drinking for 30 seconds before repeating, so immersive and fun!

It actually was a lot more immersive.

Oops, pulled three things by accident, time for a corpse run

And that was always what we call game play. Without the chance of failure (or loosing) it's not a game.

I am blessed by this time spent doing nothing of value.

And..?

No seriously, you seemed to have turned on the hate just because I pointed out how shit the current low level experience is. So I can understand the desire for all the stuff you've quoted above. You've meant it sarcastically, but tbh - it's the game play missing in low level WoW atm.

[Deleted]

Right, people have been forgiving of " rehashed content" imagine now
OHMYGOD IT'S THE SAME STUFF OVER AND OVER AGAIN ON THE SERVER

Other point: "Maybe a lot more than had been anticipated would actually enjoy playing there"
Yeah, and then people would notice that it's a server... Consiting of a permanent drought in new content.

It's optional mate, you're not being forced onto this server. If you're against rehashing and have seen vanilla/tbc/wotlk then don't play there. Simple as that. Obviously it's a server consisting of a permanent content drought, that doesn't change the fact that it gives you something to do during retail droughts in the case you haven't played there.

[Kyanion]

I think it should fall under the same sub fee tbh, i don't see why it wouldn't? From a business perspective and based on the effort imputed and possible monetary gain that only makes sense. Thus, based on the fact that it falls under the sub fee I think 99% is a logical assumption, who in their right mind wouldn't try something for 'free' basically, even if you most likely thought you wouldn't like it?

So you just want Blizzard to take on the extra cost of the new servers, maintaining them, hiring people to run/maintain/upkeep them because...why again? Oh and don't forget GMs to be trained to handle Vanilla problems and just having GMs in general on the server isn't a free cost.

[Omnoms]

It's optional mate, you're not being forced onto this server. If you're against rehashing and have seen vanilla/tbc/wotlk then don't play there. Simple as that. Obviously it's a server consisting of a permanent content drought, that doesn't change the fact that it gives you something to do during retail droughts in the case you haven't played there.

You're missing what I'm saying.
People complain about content drought, imagine a server that never progressed then. Sure, they'd know what they're buying into, but same could be said about people that play an MMO that evidently changes.

[Perkunas]

That should tell you something about Wildstar and tedium in general. Everything in MMO shouldn't take time, some things sure but not everything. Having to blow up 200 wolves vs 75 wolves is just extra padding. I think Wildstar would be a prime example about making grinds take longer and having extra 'difficulty' and 'gating' for no good reason. This isn't 10 years ago and trying to prop Vanilla up would cause some people to run in terror from it.

Wildstar had other issues and as we've seen with SWTOR if your launch sucks(and Wildstar's was fucking tragic) I was forced to grind the last 2 levels at launch because of a known bug. MMO's have one shot these days because the market is so flooded. If you botch your launch you are proper fucked. FF14 being the rare exception. They packed it all up and just relaunched. Wildstar doesn't have the IP that FF does though.

[Bapestar]

I think it should fall under the same sub fee tbh, i don't see why it wouldn't? From a business perspective and based on the effort imputed and possible monetary gain that only makes sense. Thus, based on the fact that it falls under the sub fee I think 99% is a logical assumption, who in their right mind wouldn't try something for 'free' basically, even if you most likely thought you wouldn't like it?

Yep, especially during these content droughts.

[Kyanion]

It's tedious when everything get's one shot, and it's more about trying to tag.. than any real game-play.



It actually was a lot more immersive.



And that was always what we call game play. Without the chance of failure (or loosing) it's not a game.



And..?

No seriously, you seemed to have turned on the hate just because I pointed out how shit the current low level experience is. So I can understand the desire for all the stuff you've quoted above. You've meant it sarcastically, but tbh - it's the game play missing in low level WoW atm.

You are being dishonest on purpose. The "one shotting" everything you hit is what for a few early levels if you use heirlooms? It does not stay that way the whole time and you know it. And of course shit will die easy if you have heirlooms, it would be the same thing as making an alt in Vanilla and gearing it to the teeth far beyond what a starting player would have. It removes all challenge, trust me, alts in Vanilla with gear were just as OP as they are now.

Your definition of 'immersive' by having lots of down time after killing enemies is not what I'd call immersive. I'd call it needless downtime.
So you are unable to die in WoD? Damn people must be doing it wrong when I watch them overpull in Tanaan and frag themselves.

[Perkunas]

"You can't see the last boss without grasping the fundamentals of your class."
All I'm seeing is you either A: Grossly underestimating the playerbase. While LFR is certainly not something that requires skill, it requires basic understanding of the game and your class.
B: Treat archimonde LFR as the same quality boss as Mythic Archimonde.

The difference in Vanilla, or TBC-Wrath, is that if you couldn't be shoehorned into fitting a specific mould and scheduel, you'd be left behind and unable to progress greatly. I know this because I was pretty young at the time. I still MT'd and OT'd, although quite rarely.
It's not like you weren't gearing towards raiding back in the day, there was just way worse loot, with even worse loot pools( bosses dropping 20+ items, 4 maybe being useful?)
It was artifical difficulty. It didn't test your skill. It tested your ability to repeat the same action over and over until you were lucky enough not to be ninjaed or had enough DKP to ensure your other raiders didn't get poached before you did.

You can literally be the worst player in the game and see all the content. Granted you don't get the same difficulty but for the masses Mythic raiding is something they don't care about because they've already killed the last boss. I actually played one of those "misfit toy" specs in BC and had odd raid hours, but I was able to clear all current content in BC. I simply found a group that was ok with my spec and had raid times I could manage. Raiding shouldn't be for everybody and this is why I think the journey needs to emphasized to be as important as the destination like it used to be.

[Deleted]

So you just want Blizzard to take on the extra cost of the new servers, maintaining them, hiring people to run/maintain/upkeep them because...why again? Oh and don't forget GMs to be trained to handle Vanilla problems and just having GMs in general on the server isn't a free cost.

It's an investment, something businesses do in order to undertake a financial risk for potential financial gain. I'm going under the assumption that this will bring back subscribers and potentially retain certain cyclical ones during droughts.

[Kyanion]

Wildstar had other issues and as we've seen with SWTOR if your launch sucks(and Wildstar's was fucking tragic) I was forced to grind the last 2 levels at launch because of a known bug. MMO's have one shot these days because the market is so flooded. If you botch your launch you are proper fucked. FF14 being the rare exception. They packed it all up and just relaunched. Wildstar doesn't have the IP that FF does though.

Oh without a doubt, Wildstar had many a fucking issue but the choices they made on end game gating was just beyond laughable. But yeah most games get the 'free month' out of me if they are a B2P game (generally when you buy a game the first sub month is free) and F2P games are lucky to get a month. With so many options out there now it is already hard enough to retain people, bad launches or really poor choices just fuck your odds.

[Deleted]

You're missing what I'm saying.
People complain about content drought, imagine a server that never progressed then. Sure, they'd know what they're buying into, but same could be said about people that play an MMO that evidently changes.

I'm not missing your point, but anyone who complains about a drought in a game that's been over and done with for years in terms of content needs a reality check and need not be listened to.

[Kyanion]

Yep, especially during these content droughts.

Okay? they aren't going to turn on the servers today or anything. They have an expansion out in 4 months.

- - - Updated - - -

It's an investment, something businesses do in order to undertake a financial risk for potential financial gain. I'm going under the assumption that this will bring back subscribers and potentially retain certain cyclical ones during droughts.

Okay and how many times does Blizzard need to say "No" before you give up on it? They haven't wanted to take that investment thus far.

[Deleted]

Okay? they aren't going to turn on the servers today or anything. They have an expansion out in 4 months.

Bingo, which is why tbh I don't see legacy happening for a good while. Opening them up in the next 4 months is a no go, and depending on whether or not the expansion is doing well it's not in their best interest to do it then as well. While this may make them think about its implementation, I think the legacy crowd will be thoroughly dissapointed as I don't see it happening in 2016.

[Vaerys]

I think in the short term they'd make money with classic servers but I just don't see people sticking with it as long as people claim. Or they'll just demand the Vanilla servers get TBC and so on. Already saw some polls with quite the different answers to the question of how Vanilla should start up. Patch 1.12, fresh, fresh with timed content releases and so on. How is picking one of those going to make everyone happy? Just might anger people who would rather have TBC or WotLK (both more popular than Vanilla).

They always have this problem trying to please a diverse playerbase. They deliberately sought to expand their playerbase by streamlining the experience, so they have to deal with the consequences. Unfortunately, the way they're dealing with it is alienating previously happy and loyal customers.

[Kyanion]

Bingo, which is why tbh I don't see legacy happening for a good while. Opening them up in the next 4 months is a no go, and depending on whether or not the expansion is doing well it's not in their best interest to do it then as well. While this may make them think about its implementation, I think the legacy crowd will be thoroughly dissapointed as I don't see it happening in 2016.

I mean they'd be lucky to see it happen in 2017. It sure as hell wouldn't happen this year and I imagine they want Legion to last more than a few months. That is why people are going to be up in arms when it does not happen or even get addressed until like Blizzcon. They do a pretty good job of rarely acknowledging the server thing and seem to mainly answer questions about it at Blizzcon and maybe a couple times a year in blue posts.

[Omnoms]

I'm not missing your point, but anyone who complains about a drought in a game that's been over and done with for years in terms of content needs a reality check and need not be listened to.

In the same way people that drone on about legacy server need a reality check and need not be listened to?
The game has moved on, sorry you have not.