1. #18301
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    They always have this problem trying to please a diverse playerbase. They deliberately sought to expand their playerbase by streamlining the experience, so they have to deal with the consequences. Unfortunately, the way they're dealing with it is alienating previously happy and loyal customers.
    Actually they way they are dealing with it is focusing on Legion and trying to not make it a WoD II. They've lost 95 million subs over the years, I don't think they are worried as much about the tiny amount of those that are clamoring for legacy realms. They'd be better served to make a damn good Legion expansion and get people to come back to that. If Legion is amazing it would get far more people coming back then retro realms would IMO. And you know Blizz would toss more support Legion's way than any retro realm.

  2. #18302
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Okay? they aren't going to turn on the servers today or anything. They have an expansion out in 4 months.

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    Okay and how many times does Blizzard need to say "No" before you give up on it? They haven't wanted to take that investment thus far.
    I realize they probably won't do it, I just think it's a bad idea. Businesses that take risks often end up doing better, and don't become stagnant.

  3. #18303
    The Lightbringer Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Oh without a doubt, Wildstar had many a fucking issue but the choices they made on end game gating was just beyond laughable. But yeah most games get the 'free month' out of me if they are a B2P game (generally when you buy a game the first sub month is free) and F2P games are lucky to get a month. With so many options out there now it is already hard enough to retain people, bad launches or really poor choices just fuck your odds.
    The gating wasn't even that bad to be honest. Dungeons not working, adventures bugging out, and wacky tuning were worse. Class balance was terrible, limited action set was complete shit, the devs had nothing but fanboys agreeing with every bad decision. Wildstar is actually not that bad of a game right now, but people have already made their decision.
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  4. #18304
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Omnoms View Post
    In the same way people that drone on about legacy server need a reality check and need not be listened to?
    The game has moved on, sorry you have not.
    Well the point is no one really knows if legacy will be successful, and it would simply be a risk with a potential gain for Blizzard. People are passionate and want them to take that risk, and will therefore continue to argue for it. I have moved on, in fact I've been raiding at the top level through all of mop and most of wod, but I can't deny I miss certain aspects of older wow.

  5. #18305
    Quote Originally Posted by Mxkz View Post
    I realize they probably won't do it, I just think it's a bad idea. Businesses that take risks often end up doing better, and don't become stagnant.
    Blizz is taking risks in other avenues than just MMOs though. They are focusing on Overwatch and Hearthstone quite a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    The gating wasn't even that bad to be honest. Dungeons not working, adventures bugging out, and wacky tuning were worse. Class balance was terrible, limited action set was complete shit, the devs had nothing but fanboys agreeing with every bad decision. Wildstar is actually not that bad of a game right now, but people have already made their decision.
    Yeah I'd never EVER go back to Wildstar and I don't care what they changed. They ruined their shot with me in the first month. I even had a few free months from tokens and just refused to play it. And now that it is F2P *shrugs*, not interested.

  6. #18306
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Blizz is taking risks in other avenues than just MMOs though. They are focusing on Overwatch and Hearthstone quite a bit.

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    Yeah I'd never EVER go back to Wildstar and I don't care what they changed. They ruined their shot with me in the first month. I even had a few free months from tokens and just refused to play it. And now that it is F2P *shrugs*, not interested.
    Yeah they are taking risks in other avenues, I just wish they'd take a few more risks in WoW though. I like Legion's content and I am having a blast in the alpha, but I feel like they need to be less afraid. TBC as an example had its flaws, but I feel the expansion just oozed with design innovation, and a distinct lack of fear from a development point of view, they really just put stuff in and thought it was cool. I will admit though, I am getting a similar feeling with legion.

  7. #18307
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoreyai View Post
    Steal? How is it stealing?

    They're not taking money for anything, how is this any different than Fair use?
    Are you really so ignorant? If people can play for free on servers why should pay on a blizzard server, your stealing members so it doesnt matter what you call it.
    You dont copy a microsoft product and give it away and then say its legal because you gave it away for free.

  8. #18308
    Quote Originally Posted by Mxkz View Post
    Yeah they are taking risks in other avenues, I just wish they'd take a few more risks in WoW though. I like Legion's content and I am having a blast in the alpha, but I feel like they need to be less afraid. TBC as an example had its flaws, but I feel the expansion just oozed with design innovation, and a distinct lack of fear from a development point of view, they really just put stuff in and thought it was cool. I will admit though, I am getting a similar feeling with legion.
    I think it just might be what the last blue post in January said. They just want to focus on moving the game forward and evolving it. I think they are taking some risks in Legion by overhauling pvp, streamlining class abilities, having the level 110 Map Quest content and Mythic + dungeons.

    I want them to stay the course and focus on Legion and just make it a damn good expansion. I'm also in the alpha and have really enjoyed the questing by just going where I want to quest and having things scale to my level. Tried my first dungeon today and it had a nice sweet spot on difficulty (The Archway I think it was called).

    A great Legion expansion will really silence a lot of complaints about the game being stagnant and needing to change/go back to Vanilla.

  9. #18309
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    You are being dishonest on purpose.
    Played a hunter, didn't do anything apart from Autoattack till level 15.

    Try it yourself, fresh hunter, no heirlooms, you'll get 1-2 autoattack in (+pet) before mobs die.

    It does not stay that way the whole time and you know it.
    Well if you read my post, I was more lamenting the new player experience. Killing things quickly isn't the main problem, it's the issue of trying to level when someone else is annihilating all the quest mobs, especially with Cross Realm.

    It retrospect I should of tried leveling 1-20 on a RPPVE or RPPVP server, less Cross Realm interference.

    And of course shit will die easy if you have heirlooms, it would be the same thing as making an alt in Vanilla and gearing it to the teeth far beyond what a starting player would have.
    As I said, it's more the the newbie experience, did you read - or just cut-and-paste?

    It removes all challenge, trust me, alts in Vanilla with gear were just as OP as they are now.
    Well, again I repeat. New player experience. Coming into the game for the first time and not being able to quest due to a broken low level game, isn't great.

    And how can Alts in Vanilla be as OP as they are now. Heirlooms is more OP than buying greens for low levels ever was. Unless your are talking Twinks, which is a whole different ball game.

    Your definition of 'immersive' by having lots of down time after killing enemies is not what I'd call immersive.
    What's not immersive about taking breaks. This is not an FPS. Oh.. Wait. You think WoW is an FPS, that will explain it. Overwatch is more for you. This is a Massively Multi-Player Role Playing Game.

    Damn people must be doing it wrong when I watch them overpull in Tanaan and frag themselves.
    I've never seen that. Wait.. Frag. That's an FPS term. Again WoW is a MMORPG. Overwatch is more suited to your playstyle. Your getting confused with Quake 2.

  10. #18310
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    I think it just might be what the last blue post in January said. They just want to focus on moving the game forward and evolving it. I think they are taking some risks in Legion by overhauling pvp, streamlining class abilities, having the level 110 Map Quest content and Mythic + dungeons.

    I want them to stay the course and focus on Legion and just make it a damn good expansion. I'm also in the alpha and have really enjoyed the questing by just going where I want to quest and having things scale to my level. Tried my first dungeon today and it had a nice sweet spot on difficulty (The Archway I think it was called).

    A great Legion expansion will really silence a lot of complaints about the game being stagnant and needing to change/go back to Vanilla.
    I agree, in terms of content it is looking very promising. I have my own gripes against certain systems, and the demand for legacy servers will not be quenched because the majority of vanilla memories derive from the social interaction and community. Today's systems don't have the basis to build the same community, but one can argue that they help the game in other ways. It's a trade off. I still think Blizz should add a new realm type with different systems but the same content so that they can focus full force on the next expansion, but still please the legacy crowd.

  11. #18311
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    The funny thing is that in my experience social connections are what really keep people playing the game the most and for the longest time, and those are exactly the things that have suffered the most with all of Blizzard's convenience-oriented menu-based additions to the game.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  12. #18312
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    None that you're aware of.
    Yes, hence the word "seems"

    But it does *seem* like the team has been small and put out tonnes of content, its been big and put out tonnes of content, its been small and put out bugger all content, and its been big, and put out even less...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  13. #18313
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    The funny thing is that in my experience social connections are what really keep people playing the game the most and for the longest time, and those are exactly the things that have suffered the most with all of Blizzard's convenience-oriented menu-based additions to the game.
    Yeah that's basically what I said above as well ^^

  14. #18314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    I think it just might be what the last blue post in January said. They just want to focus on moving the game forward and evolving it. I think they are taking some risks in Legion by overhauling pvp, streamlining class abilities, having the level 110 Map Quest content and Mythic + dungeons.

    I want them to stay the course and focus on Legion and just make it a damn good expansion. I'm also in the alpha and have really enjoyed the questing by just going where I want to quest and having things scale to my level. Tried my first dungeon today and it had a nice sweet spot on difficulty (The Archway I think it was called).

    A great Legion expansion will really silence a lot of complaints about the game being stagnant and needing to change/go back to Vanilla.
    It will help a bit and I see signs that give me hope with their middle finger to the flying fans. The world quests also give me hope, but the missions again in the class halls and their steadfast refusal to stop the homogenization is what worries me.
    Stains on the carpet and stains on the memory
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    When we both of us knew how the end always is...

  15. #18315
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipton View Post
    Played a hunter, didn't do anything apart from Autoattack till level 15.

    Try it yourself, fresh hunter, no heirlooms, you'll get 1-2 autoattack in (+pet) before mobs die.



    Well if you read my post, I was more lamenting the new player experience. Killing things quickly isn't the main problem, it's the issue of trying to level when someone else is annihilating all the quest mobs, especially with Cross Realm.

    It retrospect I should of tried leveling 1-20 on a RPPVE or RPPVP server, less Cross Realm interference.



    As I said, it's more the the newbie experience, did you read - or just cut-and-paste?



    Well, again I repeat. New player experience. Coming into the game for the first time and not being able to quest due to a broken low level game, isn't great.

    And how can Alts in Vanilla be as OP as they are now. Heirlooms is more OP than buying greens for low levels ever was. Unless your are talking Twinks, which is a whole different ball game.



    What's not immersive about taking breaks. This is not an FPS. Oh.. Wait. You think WoW is an FPS, that will explain it. Overwatch is more for you. This is a Massively Multi-Player Role Playing Game.



    I've never seen that. Wait.. Frag. That's an FPS term. Again WoW is a MMORPG. Overwatch is more suited to your playstyle. Your getting confused with Quake 2.
    Yes the new player experience is pretty simple but I don't think they want players getting destroyed early on and making them hate the game or the class they picked. I don't know what the design philosophy is as I don't work for Blizz.

    I could tag mobs with no big issues in Vanilla just like you can in WoD and expansions before that. If mobs were in my radius and I felt other people would take them I'd tag them and take them down. Got even easier as the game progressed and became a non-factor to me as early as TBC.

    Alts in Vanilla were far more than buying greens. You could enchant up some great starter weapons (15 agility/crusader/etc), have plenty of crafted or dropped blues and make your alts a power house. I think I still have some of my level 1 started weapons with fiery/crusader on them and items with +100 health chest enchants and so on.

    You think taking breaks is immersive and I don't. Simple as that. I love the cheapshots at me thinking this game is a FPS and I should go play Overwatch. Damn I guess I forgot I've been playing WoW since it released and that I don't play FPS much at all. Silly me.

  16. #18316
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpling View Post
    I'll never understand why people equate tedium with challenge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipton View Post
    It's tedious when everything get's one shot, and it's more about trying to tag.. than any real game-play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpling View Post
    Yeah, I totally miss killing one or two mobs then sitting and drinking for 30 seconds before repeating, so immersive and fun!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipton View Post
    It actually was a lot more immersive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpling View Post
    Oops, pulled three things by accident, time for a corpse run
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipton View Post
    And that was always what we call game play. Without the chance of failure (or loosing) it's not a game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpling View Post
    I am blessed by this time spent doing nothing of value.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipton View Post
    And..?

    No seriously, you seemed to have turned on the hate just because I pointed out how shit the current low level experience is. So I can understand the desire for all the stuff you've quoted above. You've meant it sarcastically, but tbh - it's the game play missing in low level WoW atm.

    There's a great deal of satisfaction to be had in the progression felt when things that used to be difficult become easy, and when things that were impossible become merely difficult. Overcoming trivial challenges is unrewarding.

  17. #18317
    Quote Originally Posted by towelliee View Post
    This 100%. There is no way even half of those signatures are either legit or not botted to death. Blizzard will think the same. They will look at this petition and consider it a joke. All we have now are very popular people getting their best friends with high twitter followers to sign something they truly might not even believe in. And no offense to the people leading this charge but 75% of focal people who are spear heading this have either been shunned by Blizzard or banned by them several times in the past for breaking ToS, and bashing WoW over the last several years. This doesn't help the situation at all. This is like making Johnny Manziel the head of the Players Association in the NFL.
    And you are totally not on Blizzard's leash, just a regular old Joe, impartial as fuck, the role model for objectivity that's you sir.

    But you have to get your story straight though, is it "popular people" getting their best friends with high tweeter followers to sign, or bots or martians? Inquiring minds want to know.
    Last edited by Roadblock; 2016-04-19 at 10:35 PM.

  18. #18318
    Quote Originally Posted by Mxkz View Post
    I agree, in terms of content it is looking very promising. I have my own gripes against certain systems, and the demand for legacy servers will not be quenched because the majority of vanilla memories derive from the social interaction and community. Today's systems don't have the basis to build the same community, but one can argue that they help the game in other ways. It's a trade off. I still think Blizz should add a new realm type with different systems but the same content so that they can focus full force on the next expansion, but still please the legacy crowd.
    I still wonder how the 'community' thing would go on Blizzard released realms of classic. With such things as all the information being known well in advance thanks to wowhead, guides, class dps charts/stats and such things as the best ways to grind exp/gold. I don't know how social it would be. I know I wouldn't need to group with anyone in Vanilla and would rarely need to say a word in a dungeon. With such things as voice chat being far more common than it was in Vanilla it also removes the 'social' aspect of typing out shit to people if you just find a guild, voice chat it up and zombie mode go and grind mobs/quests.

    It would be nicer if the levelling was a bit more challenging from 100-110 but they have to make the game appealing to many types of players and just not the more serious/hardcore ones.

  19. #18319
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    I believe other companies have done legacy servers, someone mentioned Runescape.

    I see it lot of claims in your post, but no proof. For example:
    "MMORPGS are meant to move on, not remain at one particular installment of the game that players can put on their shelves & pick up to play exactly as they were."
    Is there a law written in stone about that kind of thing? Can you link plx? I think it's the players who decide what the games mean to them. Are there some godmade rules about what MMORPGS are supposed to do, how they should be consumed? I don't know any, feel free to enlighten us.

    "WoW is not going to move forward solely on old ideas from an old expansion, it needs a steady flow of new things added from its own development team & ideas from the community." What a game like WoW needs more than anything else is people who enjoy playing it...

    "Most of these types of players don't want new different content as much as they actually want the game to take a 180 & regress back into an earlier version of the game, albeit with some of the modern QoL changes in later expansions. In the end this desire would not benefit retail." You could make it a part of retail.... or a 2nd retail...

    All in all i find Blizzards approach uncreative and small minded. Maybe they should get creative and rethink their rigid views of how MMORPGS should be operated or what you can do with them.

    Apparently their is a demand, why not meet it, get creative, make it happen, people are begging Blizzard to let them throw their money at them. Customer loyalty is extremely important in business but not for Blizzard apparently.

    Criminalizing the fans of your products instead of working to make something happen is a weird thing to do....
    You want proof that MMOS are supposed to move on? Lol how about you tell me all of the names of very succcessful MMO titles that did NOT create any future expansions to their origninal installment of the game. Expansions in many cases shifts the game's attention, in many areas, away from some or all of the original game's content, thus the MMO "moving on". The proof is evident in what WoW & other non WoW MMOs have already done. They create something and then potentially create a massive shake up about how the game is later played due to additional expansions.

    Making a legacy server part of retail or a second retail is still a pretty moronic idea. How does Blizz spending a lot of time/money to make a functioning legacy server benefit current retail, outside of *maybe* getting players to spend $5-$10 a month on it? All of the feedback given to a legacy game everyone has already seen doesn't make current retail a better game. Also keep in mind how many of the players that would be subbed to an official legacy would also actually be subbed to the current expac as well. Something tells me that even though there are some players who do both that type of players is definately not the majority (easily seen by how much you see posters whine about how 'awful' retail is now).

    A miniscule amount of desire compared to how many play live does not justify Blizzard meeting said desires.

  20. #18320
    Quote Originally Posted by Roadblock View Post
    And you are totally not on Blizzard's leash, just a regular old Joe, impartial as fuck, the role model of objectivity that's you sir.

    But you have to get your story straight though, is it "popular people" getting their best friends with high tweeter followers to sign, or bots or martians? Inquiring minds want to know.
    " That guy doesn't agree with my opinion DAMN HIM, how dare he, lemme give him crap. "

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