Legion Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It's Tuesday, not Wednesday.

Never mind. I dunno what I'm talking about

[emilylorange]

But dont you see that MMORPGs with exactly the same structure arent successfull anymore? Dont you see that WoW, because of being old, loses a lot of customers every month and every year?

I recommend you familiarize yourself with product life cycles. No king rules forever, my son. What you think you're asking for is a better wow, what you're going to get is a different game to cover that loss in revenue *pats Hearthstone on the head*

Is there a risk if you add a innovation? Sure there is. You actually have to learn what your customers want, and not focus entirely on streamlining the development process..

'Innovation' is one of those buzzwords you learn to ignore after a while.

Not to mention it's subjective.

And 'what your customers want' is often in direct conflict of what they 'need'.... and other customers. I mean let's see the MMO designed for Jaylock, eh?

And exactly thats the problem. You know, SWTOR recently changed their game into a solo player experience with MMO elements. They had been really successfull doing so, beside the fact that Star Wars got hyped by the movie. I dont say it was those changes only, but they actually tried innovation and left their used-to-be design. This actually could be a pattern for Bilzzard..

Turning a struggling MMO into a game type Bioware was already known for is 'innovation'? Are you sure.

They werent both instrinsically nor extrinsically rewarding. In Legion it seems, they are mainly extrinsically rewarding. You get very good items for literally collecting the same bear asses you collect for 10 years already.

Welcome to WoW - though I warn you, you collect bear asses in other games too.

[Onikaroshi]

Last build not released on a Wed was Thurs March 17 so like 3 builds in a row on wed, doesn't me they won't do thurs but patterns and schtick or something

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I recommend you familiarize yourself with product life cycles. No king rules forever, my son. What you think you're asking for is a better wow, what you're going to get is a different game to cover that loss in revenue *pats Hearthstone on the head*

That's kinda debatable. MMOS last so much longer then usual games. I think WoW will last pretty long. That said, innovation for innovation sake is stupid.

[huth]

Its not thursday or friday.

(when they usually upload builds)

You mean wednesday, when the majority of builds happened in this testing phase.

[George Costanza]

You mean wednesday, when the majority of builds happened in this testing phase.

[Krazzorx]

What I don't fully understand is why some people are so petrified of pvp. Almost seems like a mark of honor to some.

I mean, I don't see people reacting that way to Instanced content even though you die there too. Or questing which you are forced to do. Some people really don't like them but don't see anyone get worked up over pvp.

And how this relates to Legion is that even though I don't care much for pvp the free for all pvp area in Dalaran sewers is amazing and once people figure out about it they'll HATE it.

[emilylorange]

What I don't fully understand is why some people are so petrified of pvp. Almost seems like a mark of honor to some.

I mean, I don't see people reacting that way to Instanced content even though you die there too. Or questing which you are forced to do. Some people really don't like them but don't see anyone get worked up over pvp.

And how this relates to Legion is that even though I don't care much for pvp the free for all pvp area in Dalaran sewers is amazing and once people figure out about it they'll HATE it.

It might be because most WoW pvp (outside of voluntary rated instances) can be defined as 'People starting fights only when they're sure the odds favor them heavily' - which means it's a pretty miserable one-sided experience for the victim.

It's been a long, long time since 'halp rogue ganking in SS' brought 39 people to defend the zone for a few hours instead of 'lol cry about it'

[Onikaroshi]

anyone notice this thread needs like 100 more views to be at 7,777,777 views? lol

[Krazzorx]

Oh believe me, I hate getting ganked, but you know what else is a miserable experience? Wiping to Timewalking dungeons because the tank tanks Baine in the lava. I don't see the difference. (referring to getting ganked, or random pvp, not being camped.)

[emilylorange]

Oh believe me, I hate getting ganked, but you know what else is a miserable experience? Wiping to Timewalking dungeons because the tank tanks Baine in the lava. I don't see the difference. (referring to getting ganked, or random pvp, not being camped.)

One you have control over and the other you get to sit and take until either the dude gets bored or you do ^_^

[Krazzorx]

Don't really have control over idiot tanks. Or healers.

[Madhatter920]

Don't really have control over idiot tanks. Or healers.

To some extent, you do. You can vote kick and replace them. Or you can teach them. They most often aren't intentionally trying to ruin your fun. Whereas in pvp, they are intentionally trying to ruin your fun and there's no way to get around it.

[SunspotAnims]

What I don't fully understand is why some people are so petrified of pvp. Almost seems like a mark of honor to some.

I mean, I don't see people reacting that way to Instanced content even though you die there too. Or questing which you are forced to do. Some people really don't like them but don't see anyone get worked up over pvp.

And how this relates to Legion is that even though I don't care much for pvp the free for all pvp area in Dalaran sewers is amazing and once people figure out about it they'll HATE it.

I have the fortunate mindset of being a PVE-er that appreciates being able to do casual PVP once in a while. I know what you mean though, the mention of PVP being even in the proximity of PVE content seems to drive some people nuts. I totally understand that some people don't like PVP and don't want to do it, but some reactions to it are more along the lines of thinking that even the option of being able to do PVP content near PVE areas isn't acceptable, which I disagree with.

That said, I haven't had the opportunity to do much PVP recently. I think the expansion where I've done the most PVP is Cataclysm, but the need to spend the time and bag space to get new sets of PVP gear every season turned me away from doing it as much in MoP and WoD, which is why I'm anticipating that Legion's system will let me just jump right in to the Dalaran sewers, PVP world objectives, or whatever and just have fun without worrying about having to put together a separate armor set to be able to compete properly. It should be fun, and I think the decision to have prestige levels targeted more toward casual PVPers is a really good decision, because it lets casual PVPers like me that don't have or care about ratings just do whatever PVP content we want to and still have a long-term PVP progression path no matter what we do.

If things go as planned, I'm hoping Legion will have the most accessible PVP content thus far. I mean, there will be a FFA arena literally a few steps away from everyone's hearthstone location.

[schwarzkopf]

What I don't fully understand is why some people are so petrified of pvp.

I avoid PvP at all costs - because there is no way of practising it really. If I go into arena, I just die - if I go into a battle ground - I just die. There is no 'almost' anywhere. Spending hours at the graveyard isn't exciting or educational.

[George Costanza]

Random bgs and just Using your brain is basically all you need for practicing pvp

[emilylorange]

Random bgs and just Using your brain is basically all you need for practicing pvp

I can't help but feel that my brain says I could spend that same time doing something I enjoy instead. *shrug*

I mean I don't give a rat's behind if you guys don't like PvE for instance (as an example, not you in particular). I don't care if you snub your nose at 'scripted encounters' or whatever else. Doesn't make much difference to me.

I suspect that if, for instance, I left you a sarcastic remark cleverly disguised as advice, it would not change someone's opinion of PvE, similar to how this one I've quoted above doesn't do much else but cement the idea that PvP and the people I'd encounter there are not pleasant (correct or not).

I am fine with the occasional sip, but no more for me thanks, I'm driving.

[Caerule]

So many disagreements in this thread as of late. Not sure why. Plenty of builds coming out. You'd think there'd be more useful things to discuss than during the void before the Alpha.

So, what's everyone looking forward to in upcoming builds? I've mostly got my eyes on 2 things:
-More new Glyphs! Last build had some fun ones. I want more!
-Hunter pet stuff. Like, which MoP bosses might be becoming tameable. Looking your way Tortos!

[Gnarilex]

So many disagreements in this thread as of late. Not sure why. Plenty of builds coming out. You'd think there'd be more useful things to discuss than during the void before the Alpha.

So, what's everyone looking forward to in upcoming builds? I've mostly got my eyes on 2 things:
-More new Glyphs! Last build had some fun ones. I want more!
-Hunter pet stuff. Like, which MoP bosses might be becoming tameable. Looking your way Tortos!

Definitely glyphs. More customization is always good, especially in a limited game like WoW. Eagerly awaiting to see the final armors for the new four horsemen. I love collecting mounts and get excited every time one pops up in a new build.

[Deleted]

What I don't fully understand is why some people are so petrified of pvp. Almost seems like a mark of honor to some.

I don't like open world pvp.
Assholes killing npc in low-level areas, standing on top of quests NPCs while being pvp-flagged...

But I don't mind "instanced" pvp, like battlegrounds or things like Tol'Barad (which I loved). I've had the most fun in pvp in Cataclysm with my Arcane Mage.
Last I've done some pvp was when I had to do the two BGs in MoP for the Legendary quest.

Legion's honor system is really nice (although I think that Vanilla's honor ranking system is the best, that would be the only reason I'd play on a Vanilla realm) so I might do some pvp again. But only instanced.