Legion: A return to Fun?

[quras]

If legion is a return to fun I haven't seen it yet.

So, I'll keep reading and watching and once in beta, We'll see but so far not there yet.

[Xenonn]

Couldn't agree more.

Everything looks great for far. But if LFR stays how it is now come legion ill be highly annoyed. But so far everything is looking great imo. Going to reserve the Physcial CE here soon.

if they bring back MoP style of LFR that'd be amazing

[ShiyoKozuki]

My biggest misgiving is the class design. Chris Zierhut absolutely needs replaced – the class design has been dreadful for years now, and that shows no signs of changing. And while that might seem unimportant to some people (those who argue it’s all about “balance”, but simultaneously argue it’s not possible), I think a player’s avatar in the game world is fundamentally important. Get that wrong, and everything said avatar interacts with will be poisoned from the ground up.

I agree, class design is the #1 most important thing in a MMO. Without fun to play classes, nothing else matters.

They absolutely need to drop this garbage "bring the player, not the class" design philosophy because it hasn't worked for 7 years now, and instead has ruined classes and made them unfun to play. Unique utility is fun, bringing something special you're wanted for is fun.

Only being another DPS in a sea of DPS classes, except your spec which you really enjoy playing does 10-20% less DPS than the optimal spec while both bringing NO UTILITY or unique buffs/debuffs at all isn't fun. If for example destruction lock wasn't good, but I brought curse of elements, healthstones(that aren't worse than potions and share CD with them ffs), and soulstone, it'd be worth having me JUST for that and I'd have fun bringing COE and healthstones, and a soulstone.

That's no longer the case and all that matters is which DPS is doing the most DPS at that raid tier because they've neutered almost all unique utility of every single class in hopes to "bring the player, not the class", but they have no idea how to balance DPS so which class/spec is currently doing the highest DPS is brought and most others are ignored. Bring the class, not the player, still exists, no matter how hard they try.

Another thing that needs to happen is actually SUPPORTING THEIR CURRENT EXPANSION again with proper dev time, love, and care. They released WOD then dropped it instantly before even releasing 1 single hotfix patch to go work on Legion. That isn't right. WOW is not a single player game(as much as the devs keep trying to make it be one), you cannot just drop it and give it almost zero support thinking people will pay $15/month for zero content, then expect them to pay $50 for expansions every 2 years.

[WhiteEagle888]

I feel the same - it will be a return to the roots of WoW - when specs felt more unique and the primary focus was, as you said, fun.

[mysticx]

I dont think it served WoW very well Blizzard entirely focused on endgame only. One of the typical elements of a MMORPG is a living world.

In WoW, outside of cities and outside of the current endgame region, everything is dead.

It's problematic though, the vast majority of any character's playtime is spent at level cap, so only altoholics spend a lot of time in the levelling zones, and the only way to make the world in general more interesting to level capped people is to put endgame content out there, which brings its own problems (how do you keep the endgame mobs from aggroing on levelling players from miles away? Phasing will seperate people again...), i understand wht you want, but it's pretty tough to implement something that works...

[Deleted]

The character would be scaled down to the zone level for existing old regions. Thats the mentoring system, where a high level player may play together with a new player without leveling a new char. Mentor as he would play together with a friend and help him, and gain something from it as well.. Actually the idea had been reduced to "scaling the player down" at the end.

I think the legion solution would solve the problem as well. Scaling the region to the player level. It magically works, it could also magically work in the old world.

[Jtbrig7390]

if they bring back MoP style of LFR that'd be amazing

Yes it would and I hope they do or better.

Accept the fact LFR is core raiding for alot of people (Myself Included) and stop treating those who use it as second class citizen's. Also start punishing those who griefing and shit inside LFR.

[Deleted]

LFR should not be griefable to start with. If theres nothing to grief, there are no griefers.

And i dont believe that most of the LFR players look for a challenge.

A rogue, who is no tank, pulling the boss?

The boss laughs and wont move until a tank pulls him.

[Deleted]

The hype train is starting!

[Azgraal]

a legacy server on the other hand, would have me hooked for months to years. that's just me

It's like we don't have enough topics on the subject yet.

[Deleted]

While improving LFR is not the top priority of Hazzikostas and friends.

For them its all about dungeon challenge modes and mythic raids.

[DarkAmbient]

Because PvP will be balanced separately from PvE
Because there are reasons to go out in the world (World quests, profession quests), you wont stick in your garrison like in WoD.
Because Mythic dungeons will add replayability and challenge to content that used to be irrelevant in WoD
Because there are things you'll have to grind (Artifact, etc), which is what used to keep people into the game on older expansions

There are plenty of reasons why Legion will be more fun than WoD

I hope so man, I really do.

[Kryn]

I'm expecting Legion to offer some good challenges since no way would Blizz make it fun because Blizz hates fun.

[Kokolums]

I agree, class design is the #1 most important thing in a MMO. Without fun to play classes, nothing else matters.

Absolutely not.

A social in-game community is the #1 most important thing in an MMO. You can have broken specs and even broken classes and it won't matter if people are allowed to weave a positive social experience. Class design might be near the bottom of the list.

[MoanaLisa]

My biggest misgiving is the class design. Chris Zierhut absolutely needs replaced – the class design has been dreadful for years now, and that shows no signs of changing. And while that might seem unimportant to some people (those who argue it’s all about “balance”, but simultaneously argue it’s not possible), I think a player’s avatar in the game world is fundamentally important. Get that wrong, and everything said avatar interacts with will be poisoned from the ground up.

I can see that. It's difficult to separate out personal feelings from the actual game design, never mind that people generally resist change.

For one example I'm not a fan of anything they are doing with shadow priests in Legion, to the extent that I'll probably main something else for the first time since BC. Does that mean Zierhut needs to go? I don't know. Whoever thought "Bring the player, not the class" was a good idea didn't think through the idea. I'm glad that the game is making a start at undoing that. For all I know that was Zierhut's doing in which case I would go "Yay" (but not loudly). Class design is a committee thing and you're going to get a committee result: conservative and maybe a little more bland than it should be. There are serious problems with the players though. If you theoretically bring -3% potential DPS to a raid there are a lot of people who will wonder why you're playing a garbage spec. So I don't think the problem gets solved by firing anyone.

I think too much class change every expansion is more of a problem than anything else.

[MoanaLisa]

I agree with this so very much. I just want to have a fun time, not spend all my waking non-work hours striving to improve myself at entertaining myself

Yep. Beer runs are good times with the right people.

[Deleted]

I actually believe all these huge class reworks are great even in some cases ones that dont appeal to the die hard player. Because if you are that vehement about the changes it might just even be the right time for a new class main and legion would be the perfect jumping in point for a change the new class system literally has something for everyone I feel. Just an opinion albeit an unpopular one. That said most of the specs I love were fixed or are in a very good spot I think on legion right now. in terms of fun and rotation at least (fire mage and frost dk). And as a lore nerd I am going with them as they have the coolest weapons

[Foj]

I agree with this so very much. I just want to have a fun time, not spend all my waking non-work hours striving to improve myself at entertaining myself

You got it right. It's not necessarily that WoW should be a game designed to entertain drunkards (not that there's anything wrong with that, because that's a huge audience), but it should be a game where, generally, the fantasy comes first, and the execution comes second.

If there are parts of the game where execution is the most important part, that's fine, and I don't begrudge anyone who wants to become good at WoW being good at WoW. But I don't think most of the people who play WoW actually derive their enjoyment from being good at WoW.

Blizzard should spend time creating systems that encourage socialization for the sake of socializing rather than for the necessity of slogging through content. Maybe WoW needs Meetup or something.

[rda]

I actually believe all these huge class reworks are great even in some cases ones that dont appeal to the die hard player. Because if you are that vehement about the changes it might just even be the right time for a new class main and legion would be the perfect jumping in point for a change the new class system literally has something for everyone I feel. Just an opinion albeit an unpopular one. That said most of the specs I love were fixed or are in a very good spot I think on legion right now. in terms of fun and rotation at least (fire mage and frost dk). And as a lore nerd I am going with them as they have the coolest weapons

They will redo classes again after Legion. When this happens, they will say that what they did in Legion was wrong and worked terribly, and someone on the forums will undoubtedly write a post expressing their agreement. Then it will all repeat again in the next expansion.

[Foj]

They will redo classes again after Legion. When this happens, they will say that what they did in Legion was wrong and worked terribly, and someone on the forums will undoubtedly write a post expressing their agreement. Then it will all repeat again in the next expansion.

Given the relative (developer/community) harmony with which systems evolve on EVE -- often dramatically, I wonder why Blizzard's process is so fucked up.

I understand the division between "we write the game" and "we play the game" but at this point, Blizzard doesn't seem to be competent at cooperation with the player community.

There could be like ... players: "this isn't working well" and Blizzard: "oh yeah we see, it's not working well" and then 2-6 months later a patch that addresses what's not working well, directly in response. Not in response to every individual whine but allowing the community to aid in the navigation of the WoW ship.

But Blizzard doesn't do that. It's pretty much "Well we're all going East for this expansion" followed by "We think North would be good for this expansion" followed by "This expansion is going through the fourth dimension to the anti-North."