Paladin Class Fantasy in Legion

[Eon Drache]

I fail to understand why this is a problem unless you play on a RP realm in which case you haven't gotten very much love from Blizzards side in a long time anyway. In all honesty I'm absolutely fine with it all being very human-ish themed as in my opinion they ruined the class fantasy when they gave more races the ability to be paladins. I do understand the reasoning but I prefered Paladins being an alliance thing and Shamans being a horde thing.

It simply added that little extra flair to it, and in a sense it made the factions more unique as they had their own classes. But homogenisation, it's been a thing long before the cataclysm that happened with the release of Cataclysm.

Some of us, even not on an RP Realm, care about the story and the class we play.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I fail to understand why this is a problem unless you play on a RP realm in which case you haven't gotten very much love from Blizzards side in a long time anyway. In all honesty I'm absolutely fine with it all being very human-ish themed as in my opinion they ruined the class fantasy when they gave more races the ability to be paladins. I do understand the reasoning but I prefered Paladins being an alliance thing and Shamans being a horde thing.

It simply added that little extra flair to it, and in a sense it made the factions more unique as they had their own classes. But homogenisation, it's been a thing long before the cataclysm that happened with the release of Cataclysm.

did you now that knowing and respecting your lore happens not only @ RP servers?

[Teleros]

I fail to understand why this is a problem unless you play on a RP realm in which case you haven't gotten very much love from Blizzards side in a long time anyway.

Did you hear about the new film about WW2 (well, Winter War) Finnish sniper Simo Hayha? Well just like U-571 and the capture of the Enigma machine, Hollywood's making a film about him, only they're turning him into an American and giving him a black woman sidekick.

I am of course lying through my teeth about Simo Hayha, but the point is it's a classic example of taking a hero and someone people genuinely feel deeply for, and disgracing his memory for reasons that are at best utterly trivial and at worst designed to disgrace his memory.

Sure, Tirion Fordring only exists as pixels and bits, but that doesn't mean people don't feel strongly about him. More, they feel strongly about the class: the questline for DKs doesn't involve asking the Silver Hand et al if they can take Tirion, or even communing with his spirit and asking him directly about it. Oh no, the plan is to invade Light's Hope Chapel and take it by force. Because when Azeroth is facing its greatest threat yet, the right thing to do is... divide its defenders.

I mean, Genn Greymane vs Sylvanus Windrunner I can understand (and it makes sense for faction warfare reasons), but Darion Mograine & co? Come on...

/headdesk

= + =

Speaking of Blizz messing with paladin lore, what about poor Bolvar? He's "Jailer of the Damned", yet he seems to be acting all death knight-y and evil, threatening the mage going after Felo'melorn, seeking to make the Ebon Blade "his" arm of vengeance vs the Burning Legion, and so on. Instead of "be warned mage, I cannot control the Scourge in that wing of Icecrown Citadel..." it's all "if you die you will be raised as one of the Scourge", which kinda-sorta implies he has or might have something to do with raising someone as an undead...

[robsonic]

I agree that we could use a little more Horde lore-friendly paladin abilities, but I don't forsee it happening. We'll probably get some more garrison goods though!!

[Deleted]

did you now that knowing and respecting your lore happens not only @ RP servers?

You guys sort of seem to be seeing what you want to see, my problem isn't with the lore, my problem is entierly based on there being Horde paladins, as frankly the Horde does not deserve such a glorious class.

[Teleros]

You guys sort of seem to be seeing what you want to see, my problem isn't with the lore, my problem is entierly based on there being Horde paladins, as frankly the Horde does not deserve such a glorious class.

I certainly have my issues with the Horde and how it's represented and such (if you want I can go into more detail, but anyway...), but High/Blood Elves do have a history of Light worship (Warcraft 3 priests), so you can view their evolution from Light-stealing types to real paladins as a return to pre-Scourge days, but with a twist. For Tauren... yeah I think Blizz just wanted (a) another paladin race for Horde, and (b) "Holy Cow" jokes were too good to pass up. By rights Sunwalkers should be druids with different spell names/animations.

[Morally Grey Storm]

You guys sort of seem to be seeing what you want to see, my problem isn't with the lore, my problem is entierly based on there being Horde paladins, as frankly the Horde does not deserve such a glorious class.

Beef jerkies can't and shan't be paladins, sure as sure.

But blood elves earned their right. First by force, then they were pardoned.
Undead paladins would make a lot more sense actually. Not to mention there is a number of undead paladins ingame.

[Teleros]

undead paladins would make a lot more sense actually. Not to mention there is a number of undead paladins ingame.

Purge the heretic!

[Deleted]

I can accept sin'dorei paladins. I can force myself to accept draenei paladins... But never... EVER... will I accept tauren paladins and/or priests.

[Teleros]

I can accept sin'dorei paladins. I can force myself to accept draenei paladins... But never... EVER... will I accept tauren paladins and/or priests.

Nothing wrong with Draenei paladins. They came from a Light-worshipping culture. An alien culture admittedly, but that's fine. IRL physics tends to dictate that certain ways of doing something are just better than others (caterpillar tracks on tanks rather than just wheels, for example), so having aliens reach the same conclusion as people on Azeroth (especially if the Naaru were involved in subtly spreading the Light amongst humans in ages past...) isn't far-fetched.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Purge the heretic!

Purge me harder!
Feth yeah!

[Teleros]

Purge me harder!
Feth yeah!

I... what...

/headdesk

[Morally Grey Storm]

I... what...

/headdesk

Shove a chainaxe up my bottom!
This pain feels so right!

[PaladinBash]

As if breaking into Light's Hope wasn't enough (it was), something Arthas pussied out from doing because of Ashbringer and holy ground...they not only raise Tirion but they kick the shit out of Liadrin while they're doing it now? It really never ends. I don't mind Liadrin's story even if it never got fleshed out enough after her redemption but come on now. There had better be some big time undead whooping in our class storyline but even that wouldn't make up for the massive shit Blizzard took on paladins with that nonsense. Did they really need to fucking storm Light's Hope to do it? Surely they could have like...I dunno, ambushed the recovery team or something before they got his body back? I'd have been cool with that you know. I would be sad that Tirion isn't given any rest but I'd be invested into the story at the same time and wanting something to be done about it. Just having them walk into Light's Hope and fuck the place up is too much wankery.

Beyond that, class fantasy is cool and all...but it's used as a license to justify bad mechanics and unfun ideas far more than anything else. I steer clear of the whole debacle. I don't mind how Ret is looking in Legion for the most part...and class fantasy has nothing to do with that.

[Melsiren]

I'm a Blood Knight of Quel'Thalas, who, while the Sunwell was depleted, stole his magic from a living Naaru. I use a swift elven blade, not a bulky hammer, and my angelic wings are hardly a blessing so much as a magical item of theft.

...Do people still not understand that Bloodknights are just Paladins now? Jesus fuck, people we have so many Sunsworn in Talador yelling praise to the Light, and mountains of confirmation lore with Liadrin about how she is leading the Blood Knight Order as a Sanctified group of Holy Knights.

[Deleted]

Shove a chainaxe up my bottom!
This pain feels so right!

Too much time near slaanesh artifacts, classic case.

[Teleros]

Yeah it's nice music, but I think too intense for background music in what is a safe zone. I'd want to use that music for dramatic moments, not when doing garrison missions :P .

[Matt0193]

I agree that we could use a little more Horde lore-friendly paladin abilities, but I don't forsee it happening. We'll probably get some more garrison goods though!!

We don't need Horde-friendly abilities. We need actual racial flair for every class, not just Horde. It's just as bad for Draenei as it is Blood Elves and Tauren, just adding Horde friendly shit doesn't solve Draenei problems.

Also, fuck the class fantasy of being a glorified inspirational champion. Retribution was largely based on the mode of Alexandros Mograine, who spent very little time being an inspirational figure and a hell of a lot of time wading through legions of Undead burning them to ashes. I don't feel like an Ashbringer when I play Ret any more, I feel like a slightly yellow glowing Warrior who happened to have the Ashrbinger and the changes in Legion only compound that for me.

[Ulthane]

We don't need Horde-friendly abilities. We need actual racial flair for every class, not just Horde. It's just as bad for Draenei as it is Blood Elves and Tauren, just adding Horde friendly shit doesn't solve Draenei problems.

Also, fuck the class fantasy of being a glorified inspirational champion. Retribution was largely based on the mode of Alexandros Mograine, who spent very little time being an inspirational figure and a hell of a lot of time wading through legions of Undead burning them to ashes. I don't feel like an Ashbringer when I play Ret any more, I feel like a slightly yellow glowing Warrior who happened to have the Ashrbinger and the changes in Legion only compound that for me.

Thank you -hands you the cookie- the only inspiration though Alexandros gave was the fact others saw him do incredible feats of strength and it inspired his Crusade to take on nearly anything. It also inspired Jealousy and hatred sadly ._.

Paladins will always have a support feature to them but they have a spectrum. Retribution is on a side of the spectrum where they channel all that power into themselves and use holy spells to destroy enemies where as Holy would be one to use support left and right while doing some melee. Extremes if you would call it that.

On that note, its obvious though they are trying to take Judgment mechanic from Warrior CSmash but I see the "smite evil" feature from DnD in it as well. I think they could have done better with it a tad but still yea...

- - - Updated - - -

But hell with the lore as it is, all it requires is animation changes depending on race.

-Human, Dwarf, Blood Elf: Holy Light animations (Blood elves are redeemed)
-Tauren: Fire animations, since Sun
-Draenei: MAYBE a different variant of the Light due to the Naaru. More white than gold.

Alternate Animations
-Scarlet Crusade glyphs: Changes animation to Crimson Red
-Blood Knights glyphs: Changes animations to that of Blood like
-Holy Light: Changes animations to that of the Holy Light faith (For races who dont have it that want it)

YAAY glyphs and simple animation changes.

[Teleros]

But hell with the lore as it is, all it requires is animation changes depending on race.

That's a lot of work; I think I'd just stick to glyphs to change spell colours. Say...

Glyph of the Blood Knight: Gives your Holy spells a red effect.
Glyph of the Silver Hand: Gives your Holy spells a white/silver effect.
Glyph of the Sunwalkers: Gives your Holy spells a red/fiery effect.
Glyph of the Hand of Argus: Gives your Holy spells a white/blue effect.

That's the four big orders the players can be a part of. Scarlet Crusade & Argent Dawn have strong historic links to (a) generic Holy magic and (b) the Silver Hand, so I don't think they need anything.