1. #3621
    Quote Originally Posted by ruiizu View Post
    I'm not convinced it'll be that hard to heal ourselves vs. other classes. If someone uses a CC to interrupt your heals, that just means they can't use that CC on you again (in terms of Stuns, Hex, Cyclone at least) for a little while. We may need to adapt by healing earlier.

    I know it's a talent, but Justicar's Vengeance seems to be absent from the healing discussion. It's a pretty nasty heal considering it's basically 100% leech. I'm not sure about Word of Glory, my suspicion is that it might be okay in raids, but probably will be very situational in PvP due to the limited range.
    Alpha isn't tuned for balance right now, but at the current point in time, it's really hard. You need to take everything into account, though. I do agree with you somewhat, but not everything is being taken into account here. What happens if you VS a DK and are at half hp, don't have bubble or bop, and the only way to survive because your healer is CCEd is to heal yourself, so you try, but you get stunned, so if you don't die you use the charger, but wait, while your getting away, the DK grips you back and they kill you.

    I'm not saying it's going to be common for us to not get heals off, it really depends on the situation, but if we have practically no mobility, as well as our only source of healing is a hard casted flash of light, we're going to get countered by almost everything. A few tweaks would most likely fix the issue like a tiny bit more mobility, but currently it's not working to well in pvp. Yeah, DR is still in place, so let's say the enemy team has to wait a few seconds but you're almost dead and they then CC your healer, what are you going to do? Hard cast flash of light right in their faces?

    If we had more mobility, than hard casting flash of light wouldn't be bad, we could get away behind a pillar and heal for x amount of time, but currently we can't do that either. Our only option is to hard cast flash of light right in the enemy teams faces unless you bubble, and once that's gone it's the same thing all over again until you get to the point you were at where you had to bubble before but can't because you already used it. Again though, it really depends on the situation and the comps your vsing.

    TLDR: Once they get all of our defensives (bubble/bop) we have nothing left, and our only option is to hard cast flash of light, but no team is going to allow more than one, if that, and that won't be nearly enough. Need more mobility to get away so we can heal in a dire situation, or more defensive shit so we can survive if our CDs are blown and our healer gets CCed.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2016-04-21 at 03:02 AM.

  2. #3622
    This is also why I mentioned an instant Flash of Light mechanic if it was absolutely needed in our defensive kit since Hand of Light was missing.

    On a side note, what if they had a glyph for Blade of Justice that turned it into a "blade beam" animation. like an uppercut with the weapon that sent out this slicing holy energy beam out?

  3. #3623
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    I mentioned it should probably get the Victory Rush treatment, as it is the damage can potentially be too much and will be nerfed. It is expensive to get off and for a strike like that to be as it is needs to be an upgrade mechanic to Templar's verdict imo. But if they want that in the healing/defense row then maaaybe lower the Holy Power cost, remove stun interaction and/or give it Victory rush treatment. Then the other two could be tweaked to match it, Eye for an Eye could also mitigate and function off magic damage and Word of Glory remove the CD.
    Word of Glory should still IMO be around, have no CD but cost Holy Power. I always liked the design and it does come in handy if I need to do a quick heal during intense soloing or randomly healing someone(Yeah I ignored some damage I could do but sometimes it's needed). I am not necessarily certain we need a Victory Rush of sorts.

    It's not that I dislike Victory Rush. I remember when I mained Warrior I loved Victory Rush, it's a cool ability but I think maybe Flash of Light and Word of Glory should be our healing abilities. Maybe lower the cost of Flash of Light just a little bit so we don't run out. Far as I know FoL isn't too strong either. Ignoring Blaze of Light which is nice and all.



    (All I got for the night).


    This is also why I mentioned an instant Flash of Light mechanic if it was absolutely needed in our defensive kit since Hand of Light was missing.

    On a side note, what if they had a glyph for Blade of Justice that turned it into a "blade beam" animation. like an uppercut with the weapon that sent out this slicing holy energy beam out?

    Hrm...seems a bit too OP(The Flash of Light). I think it should stay castable but either made stronger and or decrease the cast cost.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2016-04-21 at 03:06 AM.
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  4. #3624
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post

    ret is intended to be high damage low mobility dps or a high mobility high dps no defensive spec.
    Ret IS already a good damage NO MOBILITY spec no defensive spec on alpha.
    NO mobility.
    NO selfdefence.
    No healing besides hardcasts and weird-ass 5-hopo-melee-attack-into-stun-which-heals-talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    the only reason why im arguing AGAINST you needs to get all these tools is because your basically asking to have WoD ret back
    god fucking damnit reg.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    End rant. ill be back for next build officially now since its basically just turning back into nonsensical rants about whaaaaa we dont have X again.
    can you please not return?
    You'd win that way, as I would not be able to talk to wall anymore ohimean to you.

  5. #3625
    Minor glyph animations
    -Justice Blade: Changes your animation of Blade of Justice to a "blade beam" of holy energy.
    -Smiting: Changes the animation of your Judgment to a blast of holy light.
    -Angelic Wrath: Changes the animation of your Avenging Wrath to "tyreal wings"
    -Justice Storm: Uses the animation from Uther's Judgment costume variant of Divine Storm.
    -Holy Power: The more holy power you have your character starts to gain a glow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Word of Glory should still IMO be around, have no CD but cost Holy Power. I always liked the design and it does come in handy if I need to do a quick heal during intense soloing or randomly healing someone(Yeah I ignored some damage I could do but sometimes it's needed). I am not necessarily certain we need a Victory Rush of sorts.

    It's not that I dislike Victory Rush. I remember when I mained Warrior I loved Victory Rush, it's a cool ability but I think maybe Flash of Light and Word of Glory should be our healing abilities. Maybe lower the cost of Flash of Light just a little bit so we don't run out. Far as I know FoL isn't too strong either. Ignoring Blaze of Light which is nice and all.



    (All I got for the night).





    Hrm...seems a bit too OP(The Flash of Light). I think it should stay castable but either made stronger and or decrease the cast cost.
    Well looking at it like this you could see the following.

    -Justicar's Vengeance: 3 Holy Power, deals a heavy weapon strike that heals you for 100% of the damage done. Killing an enemy that yields honor or experience makes this free. (IF THIS wont interact with Echo or anything else then lower the Holy Power cost and remove stun damage bonus)
    -Eye for an Eye: Now also mitigates magic damage, cooldown lowered to 30 seconds.
    -Word of Glory: Removed cooldown, buffed healing.

    This segment would also go into tandem with the concept I have for Divine Tempest meaning because it would proc a Divine Storm regardless even Word of Glory wont be a full dps loss.

  6. #3626
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Snip.
    Yep pretty much this, that's why Ret needs either buffed V.S. or shieldwall becayse no1 in the right mind will let Ret cast anything on open in rated and majority of casual PvP, since we won't have the mobility to spare to run behind pillar free from snare and heal ourselves up.

    @Storm the Sorrow If you get bored while Reg is not here, no1 to fight with ), you can always join me on PvP forums, there are so many clueless ppl who never were above 2.2k yet talking about PvP balance like they possess knowledge of R1/Glads, some very fun reads lol.
    Last edited by Snegovik; 2016-04-21 at 05:26 AM.

  7. #3627
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    -Justicar's Vengeance: 3 Holy Power, deals a heavy weapon strike that heals you for 100% of the damage done. Killing an enemy that yields honor or experience makes this free. (IF THIS wont interact with Echo or anything else then lower the Holy Power cost and remove stun damage bonus)
    -Eye for an Eye: Now also mitigates magic damage, cooldown lowered to 30 seconds.
    -Word of Glory: Removed cooldown, buffed healing.

    This segment would also go into tandem with the concept I have for Divine Tempest meaning because it would proc a Divine Storm regardless even Word of Glory wont be a full dps loss.
    This is how I'd make Justicar's vengeance.

    3 HP - Same dmg as TV (benefits from FV/Judgment/Mastery/Might of the Templar) and 100% heal. For each additional holy power justicar's vengeance healing increases by 50% (3 hp = 100% 4 hp = 150% 5 hp = 200%). No stun bonus.

    To me it will be far more useful in solo or pvp than the current version.

  8. #3628
    Mind you im looking at your numbers as the concept not raw. But the concept is sound. Just I feel with the current model if it's going to benefit from the same stuff as TV they need to have it replace TV

  9. #3629
    Deleted
    hmm no new build so far... I smell a "we are pretty confident in our work and will move to the next step of development"

  10. #3630
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CptKnusper View Post
    hmm no new build so far... I smell a "we are pretty confident in our work and will move to the next step of development"
    No more like, build may not come until next week. Not the first time a new build comes after two weeks. So your cynicism is...unneded.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  11. #3631
    Deleted
    i wasn´t cynical for once. i was honestly afraid of something like this happening. I was thinking along the line of ending the alpha and the beginning of open beta.
    My concerns with that are:
    1. only tuning no more mechanical tweaks and updates
    2. retards whining about being killed by OP ret
    3. the usual crowed only asking for "art updates" as in "could we have the blade more shiny? it doesn´t feel holy enough"

    Cynical would have been:
    "fuck it guys we are bored and the management wants us to work on more pets and mounts so they can sell more of this shit to you."

    you see clear distinction

  12. #3632
    Deleted
    New builds are always the hype for the possibility of good news.

    Hope springs eternal as they say. We will hope until the fat lady sings.

    To be honest though... new builds are always exciting. Regardless of Ret. I find it interesting to read about all the new changes. I don't play only Ret afterall.
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2016-04-21 at 09:42 PM.

  13. #3633
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    No more like, build may not come until next week. Not the first time a new build comes after two weeks. So your cynicism is...unneded.
    Yes, this happened before a couple of times and we ended up with fairly major, even if not numerous, changes.

  14. #3634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    New builds are always the hype for the possibility of good news.

    Hope springs eternal as they say. We will hope until the fat lady sings.

    To be honest though... new builds are always exciting. Regardless of Ret. I find it interesting to read about all the new changed. I don't play only Ret afterall.
    dont forget that balance does not only involve one party in a game like this. Many changes on alphas and betas can go through which can dictate how a class and spec will play out. i always read over other classes changes before i look at paladins simply because of this myself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thete View Post
    Yes, this happened before a couple of times and we ended up with fairly major, even if not numerous, changes.
    Hopefully, but that does not mean it HAS to bring big changes, sometimes a delay can be from the silliest of things and problems so heres to hoping.

  15. #3635
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post

    Hopefully, but that does not mean it HAS to bring big changes, sometimes a delay can be from the silliest of things and problems so heres to hoping.
    Indeed, the development team might decide to focus on other specs or to play some more Overwatch. We know there's over 4 months to go now so there's plenty of scope for changes, whether they come quickly or slowly.

  16. #3636
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    Mind you im looking at your numbers as the concept not raw. But the concept is sound. Just I feel with the current model if it's going to benefit from the same stuff as TV they need to have it replace TV
    If you replace tv by jv then you'll lose the 2 remaining hp.
    Not a really good idea.

  17. #3637
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrion View Post
    If you replace tv by jv then you'll lose the 2 remaining hp.
    Not a really good idea.
    I've gone over this in the thread numerous times regarding a mechanic like this before but ill repeat myself in detail.

    Justicar's Vengeance: Replaces Templar's Verdict. Deals close to double the damage of a normal Templar's Verdict and heals yourself for the amount done, 5 Holy Power.

    ^This suggestion was used a long while ago in a various build concept where you could get a "Super finisher" type deal. A templar's verdict right now deals 360% weapon damage as holy damage. To be double damage with 5 holy power is as if you used two templar's verdicts but for 1 less holy power. You get this heavy heavy strike that is apart of a slower build, in tandem with Fires of Justice this goes down to 4 holy power for something that would usually cost 6 holy power for 2 GCD's at the same time.

    To have it interact in such a way with any talent that affects Templar's Verdict means that people will use this ability over Templar's Verdict as not only a dps increase but a healing mechanic and if that were the case it should not be in the same row as Eye for an Eye or Word of Glory.

    Would I love this ability to be a cool new finisher type we could use? Yes but it cannot be in that row at all. Now if it's focus was to combine healing and damage as a self preservation option it needs to act like Victory Rush but having it share the same stuff as Templar's Verdict will force us away from using Templar's Verdict at all.

    So the concepts behind it.
    -As a super finisher: The talent is moved to another row and functions as I listed above, a new healing ability or something will take it's place.

    -As it is now? Act like a Victory Rush and have your extra healing concept because it wouldn't have the synergy with abilities that buff TV. Cost holy power but also have that instant use during various times.

    So no, it's a good idea but I usually have to keep repeating because people either didnt see the stuff I posted way back or it gets drowned out or just never seen. Also its only a good idea if in a different row.

  18. #3638
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Retribution Paladins – Revisions to level 100 talents to make them more competitive.
    New build has a lot of stuff going on not just stuff for Ret(DPS) Paladins.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  19. #3639
    Retribution Paladins – Revisions to level 100 talents to make them more competitive.
    inb4 the other 2 talents are nerfed to make equality the defacto best choice.

  20. #3640
    New build changed basically nothing for ret. The only changes as far as i can see on alpha is Holy Wrath is down to 1 min cooldown and Equality is 3 min, but the god awful improved blessing talent still exist.

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