Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[cholobanger]

It's easy to say that now, but back then when raids were cleared and the expansion season was coming to an end, everybody wanted to move on to new content. And now once all the latest features of WoW isn't satisfactory, everybody wants to go backwards.

[Henako]

Yes it's moved on to being better, what a shame.

Strongly disagree.

[cirdanx]

The people that currently play the game, raid every week and still subscribed? Yes I know it's' hard to believe but you can't ignore it.

THAT is what you call a community? Really? Seriously look the definition up. For christs sake...THIS is what plays this game now.

wow veteran here,

The community is already not the same, bringing back something old is not going to change that... the WoW community evolves each expansion. So I dont personally believe that it would effect the current community, only make it stronger than it already is...

I was the guild master and raid leader for our 40 man raids back in the day, all of us that use to raid with each other are a close group of friends and family. We've been discussing about this all recently on our own forums and we've all pretty much agreed that we would come back and play again if blizzard did indeed release a legacy server. Most of these people started to quit after several of the expansions,, but like I said we are all still in contact and we have a "family reunion" every year...

anyways Im just an old person, but I would like to see something like this happen. Thanks for sharing your thoughts all.

Very well said. If english would be my first language i would join your guild ^,^ THIS is what a community looks like. And they are rare these days.

this thread is more than 900 pages, I have been in this thread since day 1. I know what people said here. Different time different people said and defended the legality of Nos. I am not deciding on what is legal or not. The minute you accept blizzards TOS then host/play in a private server its illegal. I don't say that. Blizzard says. The law says. They have every right to protect their profits and game. Nobody can blame them for their action against nos or the people that plays there. And yes I wish I was a child. what kind of argument you want me to create? This topic is done with legal explanations. People defending Nos simply lost their cause. Nothing more to argue. They keep bitching however. Get over.

Whatever this topic started out, i´m not defending Nos. When it comes to legal issues, i pointed out that i was no legal expert BUT it´s not as easy as "bad guy and good guy". Nos doesn´t deserve protection nor does Blizzard. What is legal and not is not even the issue, saying it´s illegal is Blizzards view. Let a judge decide, i already pointed out on how this is a legal mess.

But I don´t get people jumping to Blizzards "defense". This is idiotic. They don´t need it and all you do is making yourself look like a sheep (which you probably are..not you ffs). Blizzard can defend themself, if they care they can track and shut down a dozen privat servers a week. They don´t. Why? For the same reason game devs and publishers "support" the modding scene, it´s after all good for you and keeps your game on the radar. Or are we really discussing ALL the bots and gold sellers on EU realms? They could destroy them, they won´t, espeically not now. Because all of them bring in money.

Blizzard is not your friend, you don´t need to defend them. And this topic turned into "Why not have a legacy server". And really WHY NOT! It won´t affect you, and since Blizzards statements are worth nothing, they can change their mind.

I don´t think they will, not now. But it will not get lost on them. That alone is an achievement when it comes to them.

[Bapestar]

It's easy to say that now, but back then when raids were cleared and the expansion season was coming to an end, everybody wanted to move on to new content. And now once all the latest features of WoW isn't satisfactory, everybody wants to go backwards.

Actually many people never even raided, or reached max level. How is it going backwards, if Blizzard continued releasing expansions? You wont be required to play legacy servers....

[cholobanger]

I'm speaking specifically post-vanilla, where the game had progressed into and where it also peaked. I'm saying that when the game evolved to this point, people wanted it to keep going, but it sucked (REALLY sucked) so now people don't want to move on, they want to go back.

I know I won't be required to play legacy servers, but if I'm raiding with a guild in Legion, and half of the guild leaves to play legacy, and the other half wants to play Legion then there's a massive divide. Hypothetically speaking of course.

[cirdanx]

I'm speaking specifically post-vanilla, where the game had progressed into and where it also peaked. I'm saying that when the game evolved to this point, people wanted it to keep going, but it sucked (REALLY sucked) so now people don't want to move on, they want to go back.

I know I won't be required to play legacy servers, but if I'm raiding with a guild in Legion, and half of the guild leaves to play legacy, and the other half wants to play Legion then there's a massive divide. Hypothetically speaking of course.

Then you can go to Blizzard and ask them why Legion sucks so much that people are rather playing the vanilla version. Hypothetically speaking of course.

Besides that "it sucked" is not an argument.

[cholobanger]

Lol that's not my job, I personally believe they're trying to kill WoW (this is why Legion will most likely be another bad expansion) slowly so that they can focus on other parts of their company. It's just hard to think that bringing in legacy servers would be viable.

[zmp]

When the top post in /r/nostralius is something along the lines of "I hope WOW dies if we don't get what we want" and cheering the DDOS attacks, you can really see how mature a community really is

"One person think WoD sucks, oh that must mean the whole retail community think WoD sucks".

[Goondicker]

more like 4.5m vs 100k. (150k active accounts doesnt mean they all play)

Lol...

Active accounts but not playing?

[cirdanx]

Lol that's not my job, I personally believe they're trying to kill WoW (this is why Legion will most likely be another bad expansion) slowly so that they can focus on other parts of their company. It's just hard to think that bringing in legacy servers would be viable.

Considering WoW is still their cash cow...i don´t think they would. Yes, i can see them getting sick of woW, Diablo and SC (anyone remember the big launch of LoV? No? Yeah....what a way to spit on one of their most beloved franchises...) But if they think that a fucking card game, a mediocre moba noone cares about, and an upcoming TF shooter will keep them alive, uh...bear with me...i think Mr. Kotick will have a word with them after this games lose their appeal.

*shrug* call me a pessimist, i think they are done if they don´t go back to the core ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[zmp]

The ex-wow dev that is supporting this petition, isn't he the same guy that made Firefall and was voted out of his own company due to running it into the ground?

Firefall didn't receive the popularity that Studio Red 5 had hoped for, and laid him off. I guess job security is great at Blizzard HQ since WoD wasn't quite a success i believe.

[Eapoe]

THAT is what you call a community? Really? Seriously look the definition up. For christs sake...THIS is what plays this game now.



Very well said. If english would be my first language i would join your guild ^,^ THIS is what a community looks like. And they are rare these days.



Whatever this topic started out, i´m not defending Nos. When it comes to legal issues, i pointed out that i was no legal expert BUT it´s not as easy as "bad guy and good guy". Nos doesn´t deserve protection nor does Blizzard. What is legal and not is not even the issue, saying it´s illegal is Blizzards view. Let a judge decide, i already pointed out on how this is a legal mess.

But I don´t get people jumping to Blizzards "defense". This is idiotic. They don´t need it and all you do is making yourself look like a sheep (which you probably are..not you ffs). Blizzard can defend themself, if they care they can track and shut down a dozen privat servers a week. They don´t. Why? For the same reason game devs and publishers "support" the modding scene, it´s after all good for you and keeps your game on the radar. Or are we really discussing ALL the bots and gold sellers on EU realms? They could destroy them, they won´t, espeically not now. Because all of them bring in money.

Blizzard is not your friend, you don´t need to defend them. And this topic turned into "Why not have a legacy server". And really WHY NOT! It won´t affect you, and since Blizzards statements are worth nothing, they can change their mind.

I don´t think they will, not now. But it will not get lost on them. That alone is an achievement when it comes to them.

THAT is what you call a community? Really? Seriously look the definition up. For christs sake...THIS is what plays this game now.



Very well said. If english would be my first language i would join your guild ^,^ THIS is what a community looks like. And they are rare these days.



Whatever this topic started out, i´m not defending Nos. When it comes to legal issues, i pointed out that i was no legal expert BUT it´s not as easy as "bad guy and good guy". Nos doesn´t deserve protection nor does Blizzard. What is legal and not is not even the issue, saying it´s illegal is Blizzards view. Let a judge decide, i already pointed out on how this is a legal mess.

But I don´t get people jumping to Blizzards "defense". This is idiotic. They don´t need it and all you do is making yourself look like a sheep (which you probably are..not you ffs). Blizzard can defend themself, if they care they can track and shut down a dozen privat servers a week. They don´t. Why? For the same reason game devs and publishers "support" the modding scene, it´s after all good for you and keeps your game on the radar. Or are we really discussing ALL the bots and gold sellers on EU realms? They could destroy them, they won´t, espeically not now. Because all of them bring in money.

Blizzard is not your friend, you don´t need to defend them. And this topic turned into "Why not have a legacy server". And really WHY NOT! It won´t affect you, and since Blizzards statements are worth nothing, they can change their mind.

I don´t think they will, not now. But it will not get lost on them. That alone is an achievement when it comes to them.

No one is really defending Blizzard other than saying their property was stolen, made money of the property, and took legal actions against it, which is their right to do. Not really a defense as much as just stating facts. As far as his definition of a community, that is not a community. As he himself put it, they are "family." A community is a groups of people who can interact or not interact with each other as they see fit. Community has multiple definitions, one of which is the feeling of closeness and multiple definitions of just people living in the same space with a shared characteristic or common appreciation. Technically, whether toxic or not, that IS WoW.
As far as Legacy servers go, there have been multiple reasons how Blizzard implementing one can and will affect the current players. Again, time/money/manpower taken from current crew which then delays more new content, or hiring a new team which also costs time/money/manpower. As the server would continue, they would obviously update and modify things over time which would then need to be brought into current "retail" servers when it comes to things such as content, gear, mounts, new dungeons and/or raids. Regardless of how it plays out, a Legacy server does in fact affect all other players whether on the server or not. The flip side to the arguement is to make a game that never evolves, staying stagnant and having no progression once the raids are completed. This alone being in direct conflict with a game that is ever evolving and expanding comes the reward vs risk of how many players would stay interested after all is said and done. And again, this will all cost money to implement. Keep in mind, Blizzard has multiple franchises that they take any revenue to devote too, only part of that goes to WoW and the design and development teams, which you are now asking for them to devote to old content, effectively taking money away from future content or future games they have planned. As far as your next arguement would go, don't even think to appeal with devote more money to those games or WoW itself, which considering that would then take money away from share holders, CEO's, management, devs, designers, and all average joe's pockets, I don't see that happening either.

[zmp]

maybe you try math first? you just compared current subs in wow with total accounts ever created on Nost.

more like 4.5m vs 100k. (150k active accounts doesnt mean they all play)

My and many other Garrison idler's accounts are active, i guess we dont play either.

[cholobanger]

But if they think that a fucking card game, a mediocre moba noone cares about, and an upcoming TF shooter will keep them alive, uh...bear with me...i think Mr. Kotick will have a word with them after this games lose their appeal.

*shrug* call me a pessimist, i think they are done if they don´t go back to the core ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

That's where you're probably wrong. Don't quote me but the games you mentioned are entering and if not already established as an esports. The main reasons WoW won't compete and will slowly fall off is because the popularity and viewership are in these moba's and shooters. Whether we like it or not, Blizzard will continue to invest time and effort into growing these scenes because it should yield the most profit. Now I say should but they have huge competition already.

You can belittle those games all you want but the popularity in Korea and China is growing and that's where the numbers are. They know what they're doing.

[Atelniar]

"One person think WoD sucks, oh that must mean the whole retail community think WoD sucks".

It's more like half the retail community from the launch of WoD. And the half remaining is kept artificially high by f2p subscriptions paid by players in need of gold (gold one might assume they want to use for tokens when they are cheaper - because what else do you need gold for, other than getting your garrison started?).

L.O.L.

[Uurdz]

It was "in line" with the genre because the genre was built around maximizing subscriptions. The time wasting built in the world was a business strategy.

Dungeons and dragons and runescape didn't have subscriptions.

[Zenny]

Firefall didn't receive the popularity that Studio Red 5 had hoped for, and laid him off. I guess job security is great at Blizzard HQ since WoD wasn't quite a success i believe.

Nope, from what I can gather he was spectacular bad at management:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comme...s_ceo_by_red_5

[Atelniar]

The people that currently play the game, raid every week and still subscribed? Yes I know it's' hard to believe but you can't ignore it.

My garrison says I can, the silence in LFR, LFD and generally empty zones with no replayability beyond shitty blue gear pieces (found in treasures) which you replaced at lvl 95. It all says I can ignore the community. The broken economy says I can ignore trading with other players, because I can simply use my garrison and make a shit-ton of gold that way. AH activity isn't a social activity or define communities? Really? It fucking is, anyone saying otherwise has no idea what player interaction means.

Blizzard likes developing tools of convenience, but they utterly fail at integrating those tools of convenience in a manner that supports a community rather than work as a detrimental factor.

But you know what you will get? Useless Twitter integration, because taking a screenshot and possibly cropping it to cut out excessive scenery is too hard! Yea, that's just another tool of convenience. Like, literally. With a stupid pose and a grin added to it. And that was a major content patch.

"But. But, the community? The forums, the streamers?"

Oh, you mean the forums that are obsessed with the FotM class and begging for it to be nerfed on the PvP section while otherwise discussing off-topic rants and stroking their e-peen by randomly upvoting and downvoting opinions or suggestions they dislike? Oh, that community? Wait, are you serious? That's not a community, that's a toxic shitfest in which new players and actual suggestions die a silent death.

Oh, you mean the arbitrary islands of streamers who support their own little communities? Mostly based around the streamer's or youtuber's personality while he talks about or plays WoW? Is that the WoW-community now? But there's like anything from 12-20 seperate ones of those. And they are even in direct competition with eachother and act toxic towards eachother?

I mean, it's not like a good portion of the current active "WoW-community" seperated by cross-realm technology, but without cross-realm guild structures (something a game like GW2 had in place since launch) or any means of socializing across realms other than personal whispers through the real ID system, doesn't pay for it's subscription with in-game gold from a broken economy. Right?

Oh, it is. Woops.

[Vaelorian]

The only thing that I hope Blizzard will take from Nostalrius's is that a pretty big part (bigger then ever before) joined the Vanilla server.
So what do they need to do:
1. find out what the differences are between current WoW and WoW Vanilla that players liked
2. implement a good portion of those things in current WoW or take things out that are considered not welcome additions

In short: they need to learn from Nostalrius. Why are people joining that server?

Obviously I am not blind to the subscription fee. If something is free and enjoyable or on par with retail (in terms of enjoyment) but free, what would people choose? So yeah.

I wanted to go to Nostalrius tbh. But I did not out of fear. Fear of losing my progress, my character, my new friends if Blizzard ever decided to shut them down. It finally came to that.
I mean Vanilla servers and the like are pretty abundant. But not in terms of Nostalrius's success. And given the fact that we'll be likely below the 4 million mark now in retail subs, seeing an illigal server with 100k+ subs seems like a competitor.

Bottomline: Blizzard is right for shutting it down. 100%, no contest.
Blizzard should also learn from this.

[Atelniar]

Blizzard should also learn from this.

And if, I may add I said if, we get another "you think you do, but you don't" we can all safely assume Blizzard is incompetent. Because they would be refusing to learn from their mistakes.