Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Maybach]

There are two things that indicate to me that closing that server may not have been the best idea

The first is how it has polarised people on this, and other forums, and the strength of feeling on both sides of the debate

The second is the huge amount of negative posts aimed at blizzard and WoW within months of the launch of its latest expansion when it is trying to win back subscribers and increase its player base

A pyrrhic victory to say the least

[Jeniwyn]

Honest question for you. What would you do if Blizzard said that based on their data from exit polls and feedback that the classic realm would be WotLK. Would you be happy that classic realms happened or pissed off because it isn't Vanilla that got chosen. And I pick WotLK based on the strong numbers that expansion had and the iconic characters/story that was being presented.

I'd be very surprised and would not accept it as a good experiment for Legacy servers and if it failed I would keep asking for vanilla servers. I would not pay for such a server myself.

My main issue would be that WotLK while a.good expansion seem to me to have less staying power and replay value compared especially to vanilla and to a lesser degree TBC.

Except for the PvP. I've never found WoW PvP to be super interesting myself. But WotLK is probably my favorite from a PvP perspective and I've heard that opinion from avid PvPers too.

[Deleted]

I met some awesome players i added on friendlist while doing Gold CM in MoP and WoD. Anecdotal example are not evidence.

And the community on a PS is more compact, just like a little town where retail is more a megapole. Legacy Realm won't bring back the vanilla's community

I did have a bit of that community still in MoP. We were a small realm with 3 casual raid guilds per faction + us. One shitposter guy on Alliance talking with my guildmates in realm forums, saw him in Timeless Isle once myself. After connected realms even these remnants disappeared.

CMs are content that forces you to find players and interact with them. If the core game experience was more like that, I'd enjoy retail a lot more I think. That's what vanilla WoW was more centered around too, the design of the game supported finding more permanent friends.

[Ielenia]

Content droughts have only gotten worse, even after they've promised on the record that it would be better for the last 2 (3?) expansions.
There's this going around.



Not sure how biased it is, I didn't play during vanilla, but it does show that's it's only getting worse.

You're forgetting patch 3.3.5 for Wrath of the Lich King, which, despite being a 'x.x.5' patch, it was a 'major' patch because it introduced the Ruby Sanctum raid instance.

[papajohn4]

Honest question for you. What would you do if Blizzard said that based on their data from exit polls and feedback that the classic realm would be WotLK. Would you be happy that classic realms happened or pissed off because it isn't Vanilla that got chosen. And I pick WotLK based on the strong numbers that expansion had and the iconic characters/story that was being presented.

Honestly, the private servers show otherwise... we are doing this discussion because of Nostalrius and nostalrius is a vanilla server. If you can show me a wotlk private server, as popular as nostalrius then I can honestly answer your question. Right now, your question is not even hypothetical, because we know which private server was popular and why we are discussing now

It's not about which way it will go, it's that they pay the same thing anyway (whether there are separate subs or no, mostly you'll either play 1 or the other every month), so there's no net gain.

And in the end, when both packs run out of content, player group X feels entitled to one kind of new expansion, player group Y to the opposite. The hardcores play Vanilla, the casuals play Legion. They both run out of stuff to do, but now they are even more segregated, because you've endorsed that through legacy server. Who will expansion 8.0 be made for? Please tell.

As far as it concerns me, I tell you that I stopped playing WoD 2 months after the expansion and since then I play on the private server. I would have continue to sub in wow and play on the legacy server, so I dont understand why there's no net gain.

Also, is very difficult to run out of content in Vanilla...Vanilla is not a 2 month major patch to complete. Just leveling some classes to 60 might take you a year..especially if you are a casual player... I remember when blizzard released TBC, half the playerbase complain about being too soon for it cause they didn't manage to defeat some more bosses..

expansion 8.0 will be made for the retail wow players, as is now... I dont understand why the legacy server would affect the expansion... except if they become much more popular that retail wow. If that is the case, then I don't see the problem if expansion 8.0 will be for them...

[Kyanion]

Honestly, the private servers show otherwise... we are doing this discussion because of Nostalrius and nostalrius is a vanilla server. If you can show me a wotlk private server, as popular as nostalrius then I can honestly answer your question. Right now, your question is not even hypothetical, because we know which private server was popular and why we are discussing now

That isn't what I'm asking though. Besides I know some versions of WoW's expansions run really poorly, but I can't answer as to which ones as I don't really know anymore. And you are basing your numbers on Nost's numbers. What if Blizz has hundreds of thousands of data points showing that WotLK would be the way to go. Would you accept it for what it is or still keep going on about Vanilla?

Because it does not feel like it is about 'classic realms' where some people are talking about support for TBC/WotLK and so on. The message is really mixed from the pro-legacy crowd and it mostly seems like pro-vanilla only.

[Deleted]

You're forgetting patch 3.3.5 for Wrath of the Lich King, which, despite being a 'x.x.5' patch, it was a 'major' patch because it introduced the Ruby Sanctum raid instance.

You forgot to mention that Blizzard made 3 Raid Tiers in 3 YEARS ...

[Kyanion]

Also, is very difficult to run out of content in Vanilla...Vanilla is not a 2 month major patch to complete. Just leveling some classes to 60 might take you a year..especially if you are a casual player... I remember when blizzard released TBC, half the playerbase complain about being too soon for it cause they didn't manage to defeat some more bosses..

I dunno about that one though. Based on Nost was showing the average time to hit 60 was like 12 days so spread out a few hours a day would take some time for some sure. But you are maybe underestimating just how fast content gets consumed now. Artificial gating such as Ony scales will slow things down a bit but some of the content will be zoomed through.

[Murictavis]

There are two things that indicate to me that closing that server may not have been the best idea

The first is how it has polarised people on this, and other forums, and the strength of feeling on both sides of the debate

The second is the huge amount of negative posts aimed at blizzard and WoW within months of the launch of its latest expansion when it is trying to win back subscribers and increase its player base

A pyrrhic victory to say the least

It is a private server, so it will be shut down in certain point.
Don't even mention that people are making youtube videos about it; streaming it on twitch, posting it on the forum to let others know about it.
Can you really believe blizzard will just sit there and see this happens?

[papajohn4]

That isn't what I'm asking though. Besides I know some versions of WoW's expansions run really poorly, but I can't answer as to which ones as I don't really know anymore. And you are basing your numbers on Nost's numbers. What if Blizz has hundreds of thousands of data points showing that WotLK would be the way to go. Would you accept it for what it is or still keep going on about Vanilla?

Because it does not feel like it is about 'classic realms' where some people are talking about support for TBC/WotLK and so on. The message is really mixed from the pro-legacy crowd and it mostly seems like pro-vanilla only.

Again you are talking completely hypothetical and also you are assuming that Blizzard tools to measure player needs are working very good.. but anyway, I will answer you that yes I will accept of course. I much prefer WotLK than WoD.

Also keep in mind, that the private servers are progressing. Nostalrius had already plans to launch a TBC server after a year+.

Everquest legacy servers also done the same.. they started from early game version and slowly progressing to the later ones...

EDIT: Going off for some time, will be back later (dont you think I am giving up the fight ! )

[Coconut]

As far as it concerns me, I tell you that I stopped playing WoD 2 months after the expansion and since then I play on the private server. I would have continue to sub in wow and play on the legacy server, so I dont understand why there's no net gain.

Also, is very difficult to run out of content in Vanilla...Vanilla is not a 2 month major patch to complete. Just leveling some classes to 60 might take you a year..especially if you are a casual player... I remember when blizzard released TBC, half the playerbase complain about being too soon for it cause they didn't manage to defeat some more bosses..

Yeah, playing on a private server instead of WoD is not a good argument. Clearly you switched from WoD to Vanilla, so if blizzard had both, you would have paid for that one and that's it. No net gain between versions.

It would have been a "net gain" if you paid them for what you wanted instead of playing on an illegal private server, yeah, but then again, they can just close the private server, and maybe you'll play retail then, huh?

Or maybe they do make legacy, and you're not happy with it, or don't want to pay for it, and will just go back to a private server instead. You're not exactly a reliable customer.

Speaking of being happy with legacy servers, let me repost this, since I didn't get an actual answer from anyone in the legacy camp. Here's how legacy servers, if implemented, can end up going wrong for you:

A few days ago, I started a poll that may be of interest to you. I was hoping to poll a larger number of people, but it kind of died down, so I might as well bring it up now.

I simply asked legacy server supporters what they would want such servers to look like... and, although there is a unified support behind the umbrella concept of "Legacy Servers", people apparently have different and contradictory ideas of what those actually are. To give a simplified analysis of the data there:

- Over 70% of respondents would want legacy servers for other popular expansions, not just vanilla, at some point in time. So if Blizzard does open up to the idea of Legacy realms, they should expect heavy demands for all the popular expansions. This, of course, would split and segregate the community a great deal more, and be an even bigger source of disconnect with future expansions, since there would be 4 or more different versions of the game running on different principles and having different themes.

- Over 70% of respondents want progressive servers (like Nostalrius also was), suggesting that players would eventually get bored with the legacy realm once it runs out of patches, about 2 years being the best lifespan for any expansion. Blizzard probably shouldn't expect most subscribers to maintain interest longer than that. As a side note, Nostalrius had one realm that was 1 year old, and another which had 6 months. They were getting close to opening AQ, so their numbers coincide to the prime of the expansion cycle.

- About 70% of respondents want "time bubble" servers to exist, meaning a legacy server for a certain expansion would never update to a future expansion, whether it is progressive or not. Of course, once people create characters on such servers, most would expect the same assurances as people playing the standard game, so support will have to continue even if they only log once every blue moon.

- Over 30% of respondents would want a sort of "wow revival", with the Vanilla legacy server eventually upgrading to BC, and then Wrath. Cataclysm would probably not be popular, but MoP might be in the future, which raises a thorny question of how that moment would be handled, should Blizzard follow this course. Technically, this would also not truly support legacy servers, since there would no longer be a "legacy Vanilla realm" once the server is upgraded to BC. We would eventually be in the same position where a Vanilla realm doesn't exist, while Wrath fans, for example, would arbitrarily have to wait 4 years before their expansion is brought back to life.

- Only ~28% of respondents specifically want Vanilla servers.

Of course, if Blizzard was to seriously consider the idea, they'd have to pick a model and stick with it, which would certainly result in complaints, demands and disgruntled customers, even within the very core of legacy supporters.

Edit: To add to this, there would be, of course, demands from people who only become interested in Legacy Realms once they are released, and the many questions pertaining to system implemented in the game along the way, such as the collection tabs I mentioned, transmogrification, battletag, dungeon journal, viable specs, pet battles, achievements, dwarf shamans, tauren paladins, and, ironically, even LFG and LFR, which some people might start asking for once they start playing there. After all, all these systems already exist in the game, so "it wouldn't me a big deal" to implement them to any and all legacy servers.

So, when they said it would be "a logistical nightmare".... this is probably what they meant.

If Blizzard were to pick an option you don't like, would you run back to a private server or not?

[Kyanion]

Again you are talking completely hypothetical and also you are assuming that Blizzard tools to measure player needs are working very good.. but anyway, I will answer you that yes I will accept of course. I much prefer WotLK than WoD.

Also keep in mind, that the private servers are progressing. Nostalrius had already plans to launch a TBC server after a year+.

Everquest legacy servers also done the same.. they started from early game version and slowly progressing to the later ones...

EDIT: Going off for some time, will be back later (dont you think I am giving up the fight ! )

Well thank you for being honest on the WotLK thing. And yeah I'm heading out too, sadly I won't get to post again until like Tues or Wed. I'm hoping to hear something about the petition fiasco if it gets delivered. Enjoyed the chat everyone.

[Eliseus]

Along what other MMOs do, there is always a catch. There shouldn't be any worry about sales for Legion and these type of servers since Blizzard could tie an account being able to play on the legacy servers having to own the current expansion.

[Deleted]

let me repost this, since I didn't get an actual answer from anyone

Aren't most of those options the same? Want other popular expansions at some point, progressive, time bubble and wow revival(how is this even different from progressive?) were all in Nost. The plan was to go to future expansions but leaving the earlier realm in latest patch for those who want to stay there.

such as the collection tabs I mentioned, transmogrification, battletag, dungeon journal, viable specs, pet battles, achievements, dwarf shamans, tauren paladins, and, ironically, even LFG and LFR

are the stuff why I'm afraid Blizz would ruin it. Why even rollback and then reimplement the very changes people wanted to go away from?
The Oldschool runescape answer could be doable. I love the transparency it shows. If 75%+ vote yes it'd pass. There's not much argument for the opposition to make there.

[Xarian]

So I can steal your car because really who cares? It's just a car. It's not some big bad thing. Where do you draw the line?

Why do you keep going on with this crap? Its called _copying_, theres a reason theres a copyright law, we have laws against theft, theres a reason laws against theft dont apply to virtual content, because its not theft, its copying, its cloning, its duplication, its copy_right. Please just stop with the stealing crap you are spewing.

And to respond to your actual post to the other "dude", sure, go ahead and steal a COPY of my CAR, as long as i still got mine, i dont give a damn.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Tomorrow's the day Mark is going at Blizzard HQ deliver the 5000 pages of petition directly to Michael Morhaime.

I'm curious as to how this'll turn out. I'm definitely intrigued by what's motivating Mark to do all of this - and I'm even more curious to hear how things go.

Will he be locked out?
Will Mike let him in, sit down and speak frankly?
Will we get a public release from Blizzard?

Honestly, it's exciting. Now that we know we will have at least 4 other months of drought, it might be time to do something to temporarily boost sales.

As per usual, the petition, which is now slightly over 210k: https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhai...raft-community

[McNeil]

The most streamed WoW channel is about a guy who constantly brings up old vanilla videos, that has been the case for the last few days. Why wouldn't people even want to watch Legion gameplay instead?

[Coconut]

Aren't most of those options the same? Want other popular expansions at some point, progressive, time bubble and wow revival(how is this even different from progressive?) were all in Nost. The plan was to go to future expansions but leaving the earlier realm in latest patch for those who want to stay there.

They are not the same. I am aware that Nost was going to upgrade to BC, but this isn't brought up very often.

A time bubble of Vanilla can no longer exist (obviously) if said server becomes a BC server after an arbitrarily decided amount of time. And 4 years from now, when we hypothetically have 9.X retail and Wrath, someone can legitimately say "I want to play Vanilla, where is Vanilla?". And if it's ok to not have Vanilla in 2020, it's ok to not have it now.

Progressive is significant because it means people want a constant stream of content (as Nost was offering). At some point after Naxx, the server stops being profitable, and this is a valid issue. Fixing Vanilla code and opening servers for 150k players to play indefinitely is one thing, doing it for 2 years going into a content drought is another.

are the stuff why I'm afraid Blizz would ruin it. Why even rollback and then reimplement the very changes people wanted to go away from?
The Oldschool runescape answer could be doable. I love the transparency it shows. If 75%+ vote yes it'd pass. There's not much argument for the opposition to make there.

Do people hate those changes collectively? I doubt it. Group finder, within the pro-vanilla crowd, yes, collection tabs? I don't see the argument against them, considering it's a concrete advantage to your account (Legacy MoP can let you get Cm rewards again, for example... Amani bear for BC, etc.).

The mistake vocal legacy supporter make is that, from the get go, they put themselves in a position where they get to call the shots about what the game should be, but if Blizzard were to implement legacy for real, it's not going to be their call. And this is a really, really good argument not to do it: you're talking about very, very entitled group, who might flip you off anyway if it's not exactly what they wanted.

[Zoldor]

I wouldn't mind playing the vanilla questing experience once more, because when I did it back in the day that was...well a long time ago. I'd like to see some of the quest dialogue etc again, just to see if I am remembering Lore bits the right way. I do wish you could choose the vanilla experience or the Cata experience. While the Cata one is quicker and better version of questing, I have sort of forgotten what the old world stuff was that was going on. Either way not enough to care too much. I do like an evolving world.

[Darkeon]

The mistake vocal legacy supporter make is that, from the get go, they put themselves in a position where they get to call the shots about what the game should be, but if Blizzard were to implement legacy for real, it's not going to be their call. And this is a really, really good argument not to do it: you're talking about very, very entitled group, who might flip you off anyway if it's not exactly what they wanted.

Implying only the Pro-Legacy Servers act like that. I loled.

Better open a petition to abolish PvE raids. If LFR and the constant complaining from both sides of the fence thought us is that these are a group that consists of plenty of vocal, entitled people that might flip on them anyway if they don't get what they wanted. Down with PvE!
Sounds pretty silly doesn't it? Yeah, it does.