Tempostorm starts Meta Snapshot for Heroes

[Zelendria]

I was playing him just moments ago. Look I don't doubt he's good, I just don't understand "god tier".

And since Illidan is a must-ban (and often Li Ming) then why isn't HE in that tier instead?

Are these tiers on the assumption that Li Ming and Illidan are banned? Lel.

I regularly see Illidan banned, but then what's funny is that on the occasions when Illidan is let through the team with him usually lose.
Both Ming and Illi are in T1. Disagree about Ming being there, but Illidan isn't nearly as great as his ban rate suggests.

Everytime I see enemy team with Illi I just pick BW or Li Li and he's finished.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

hat spec is a little different, if your playing with ili or falsted i think most people would have a vastly different talent set up but thats just my opinion. i havnt seen any numbers on what they do mostly use

[Mormolyce]

I regularly see Illidan banned, but then what's funny is that on the occasions when Illidan is let through the team with him usually lose.
Both Ming and Illi are in T1. Disagree about Ming being there, but Illidan isn't nearly as great as his ban rate suggests.

Everytime I see enemy team with Illi I just pick BW or Li Li and he's finished.

He can certainly be counterplayed. But it's no secret Illi is broken again since his overly generous rework, and Li Ming's always been ridiculous.

Thrall is good sure, but he's not on their level. Which is why he's banned less.

[Nerraw]

He can certainly be counterplayed. But it's no secret Illi is broken again since his overly generous rework, and Li Ming's always been ridiculous.

Thrall is good sure, but he's not on their level. Which is why he's banned less.

They fixed Illidan with this week's patch so he doesn't get CD reduction even while blinded anymore. A decent Li Li can time her blinds well enough for the team to take him down in that one window.

[Lesane]

I was playing him just moments ago. Look I don't doubt he's good, I just don't understand "god tier".

And since Illidan is a must-ban (and often Li Ming) then why isn't HE in that tier instead?

Are these tiers on the assumption that Li Ming and Illidan are banned? Lel.

Illidan being a must ban is just a meme of people thinking he's invincible. If they first pick Illidan just pick a bunch of counters for him. Illidan is only OP if you don't focus your damage and CC onto him. Illidan, unlike Thrall, is very comp specific on both ends.

KT is also stronger than Li-Ming atm, it's just that Li-Ming is a fucking cancerous hero to play against (sort of like Illidan if you don't counter him). That's why she gets banned.

The Li Ming is quite weird as well, or is that some new build I'm not used to. I usually use my talents to enhance orb's damage and not the magic missiles.

Li-Ming has three viable builds.

He can certainly be counterplayed. But it's no secret Illi is broken again since his overly generous rework, and Li Ming's always been ridiculous.

Thrall is good sure, but he's not on their level. Which is why he's banned less.

No, he's just banned less because of perception. Li-Ming and Illidan feel OP when they shine, and Thrall doesn't even though he might be more impactful and way more consistent. Thrall works in almost every comp, while Illidan needs very specific setups and Li-Ming is more of a snowball hero that isn't really that great either unless you allow her to snowball.

Illidan is either OP or completely useless. Thrall is always good.

They fixed Illidan with this week's patch so he doesn't get CD reduction even while blinded anymore. A decent Li Li can time her blinds well enough for the team to take him down in that one window.

Even before that change you could easily counter him.

[Deleted]

Illidan being a must ban is just a meme of people thinking he's invincible. If they first pick Illidan just pick a bunch of counters for him. Illidan is only OP if you don't focus your damage and CC onto him. Illidan, unlike Thrall, is very comp specific on both ends.

KT is also stronger than Li-Ming atm, it's just that Li-Ming is a fucking cancerous hero to play against (sort of like Illidan if you don't counter him). That's why she gets banned.

To support this with a few numbers, the four assassins with the lowest WR in Master, Diamond as of today are Kerrigan, Jaina, Li Ming and Illidan.

[Deleted]

They fixed Illidan with this week's patch so he doesn't get CD reduction even while blinded anymore. A decent Li Li can time her blinds well enough for the team to take him down in that one window.

Illidan ... blinded ... am I the only one seeing the irony here?

[apepi]

Im sorry but you people are not understanding why people ban Li-Ming and Illidan. People ban them because they are not fun to play against, not that they are the strongest hero. People don't like playing Illidan because he is super hard to away from. People don't like Li-Ming because of her resets abd cane get health+shields when she kills someone. It is not because they are the best, it is because they are annoying to have to deal with.

Thrall is a great hero, but none of his abilities are annoying.

[Lillyth]

How is Abathur not played that way? You can have a slight variation at level 1 and 4 talents depending on the team comps, but other than that the talents they show are pretty much set in stone.

Currently two ways of playing Abathur prove the most effective.

a) Focus on mines early on and ranged creeps later + nest level 20

b) COMPLETE focus on supportive talents all the way up to level 20

No one sadly picks the monstrosity as a heroic anymore if they want to win and spending every talent on creeps does not pay off at the moment because heroes have such an easy time obliterating them.

[Nerraw]

Illidan ... blinded ... am I the only one seeing the irony here?

No. No, you're not.

[Deleted]

No. No, you're not.

Hadn't seen one, that's great, thank you for the link

[Lesane]

Currently two ways of playing Abathur prove the most effective.

a) Focus on mines early on and ranged creeps later + nest level 20

b) COMPLETE focus on supportive talents all the way up to level 20

No one sadly picks the monstrosity as a heroic anymore if they want to win and spending every talent on creeps does not pay off at the moment because heroes have such an easy time obliterating them.

The damage talent on mines isn't necessary. It's good but you can easily go locust at level 1 for more passive pushing power, which is what that build does. The crucial mine talents are the level 7 one and to a lesser extent the level 4 one.

The full hat build is also really overrated and only worth going for if you have an Illidan and maybe with a Zeratul. Even then the most important talent is the attack speed one, the other ones are optional imho.

[Mormolyce]

They fixed Illidan with this week's patch so he doesn't get CD reduction even while blinded anymore. A decent Li Li can time her blinds well enough for the team to take him down in that one window.

That's a plus.

Illidan being a must ban is just a meme of people thinking he's invincible. If they first pick Illidan just pick a bunch of counters for him. Illidan is only OP if you don't focus your damage and CC onto him. Illidan, unlike Thrall, is very comp specific on both ends.

KT is also stronger than Li-Ming atm, it's just that Li-Ming is a fucking cancerous hero to play against (sort of like Illidan if you don't counter him). That's why she gets banned.


No, he's just banned less because of perception. Li-Ming and Illidan feel OP when they shine, and Thrall doesn't even though he might be more impactful and way more consistent. Thrall works in almost every comp, while Illidan needs very specific setups and Li-Ming is more of a snowball hero that isn't really that great either unless you allow her to snowball.

Illidan is either OP or completely useless. Thrall is always good.

See if they said Thrall is a strong hero and a good all-rounder I'd say "sure". If you make a "god tier" I'd expect it to be used precisely for those heroes that have the potential to be OP if not counterplayed. And any hero can be counterpicked really, you just don't usually bother to counterpick Thrall because he's not the kind of potentially OP hero that demands counterpicking.

The Illidan thing is not my personal opinion, I don't think he's so great, just pointing out what everyone seems to be banning.

[Lesane]

See if they said Thrall is a strong hero and a good all-rounder I'd say "sure". If you make a "god tier" I'd expect it to be used precisely for those heroes that have the potential to be OP if not counterplayed. And any hero can be counterpicked really, you just don't usually bother to counterpick Thrall because he's not the kind of potentially OP hero that demands counterpicking.

The Illidan thing is not my personal opinion, I don't think he's so great, just pointing out what everyone seems to be banning.

Well, Thrall is god tier because of things that aren't directly apparent, especially at lower MMR ranges. Thrall will win pretty much every 1v1 lane, that's where the advantage starts. Then he's also extremely good in team fights and you cannot counter pick him as hard as you can counter pick Illidan. Illidan literally does nothing if he doesn't get into melee range and stays there, which makes him very susceptible to focus fire burst and focus CC chains. Thrall can adjust his playstyle around such comps and not be entirely useless. He's also far more bursty which means he needs a much smaller window of opportunity to get kills.

[Zelendria]

Level 4, Ride the Lightning, 300hp heal for 40 mana by using chain lightning. With Rolling Thunder at level 1, he can potentially cast every second CL for free that pokes the hell out of heroes, heals him, and pushes the lane. All done from the safety of range, and without touching his root.
GL pushing Thrall off a lane 1v1. About the only hero that stands a chance is Zagara, and Sonya can perhaps go toe-to-toe.

[Mormolyce]

Level 4, Ride the Lightning, 300hp heal for 40 mana by using chain lightning. With Rolling Thunder at level 1, he can potentially cast every second CL for free that pokes the hell out of heroes, heals him, and pushes the lane. All done from the safety of range, and without touching his root.
GL pushing Thrall off a lane 1v1. About the only hero that stands a chance is Zagara, and Sonya can perhaps go toe-to-toe.

Like a year ago I said those exact same things to Lesane who was saying Thrall was crap!

But (to echo his own comments at the time) being great at 1v1 in a lane doesn't make you god tier in HoTS.

For that matter, why isn't Zagara god tier? She's probably the top of the 1v1 lane stakes, and is a strong ranged DPS and a good pusher too. Also has an amazing teamfight ulti.

IMO their idea of god tier is just weird. If I was going to make a "god tier" it'd be for clutch heroes like Li Ming, not solid all-rounders like Thrall.

[Ryme]

I think their god tier is dead on if you assume that everyone understand all heroes. Thrall and KT win games all by themselves and offer top notch play making capability beyond any other hero I can think of.

I would still ban Ming and Illidan first though. I think both of these heroes are sub par these days, however, if you're team doesn't know how to deal with either of them you lose and I don't want to take that risk in my games.

[Lesane]

Like a year ago I said those exact same things to Lesane who was saying Thrall was crap!

But (to echo his own comments at the time) being great at 1v1 in a lane doesn't make you god tier in HoTS.

For that matter, why isn't Zagara god tier? She's probably the top of the 1v1 lane stakes, and is a strong ranged DPS and a good pusher too. Also has an amazing teamfight ulti.

IMO their idea of god tier is just weird. If I was going to make a "god tier" it'd be for clutch heroes like Li Ming, not solid all-rounders like Thrall.

A year ago Thrall was garbage. He became good after the scaling changes.

[Ryme]

Tempostorm recently released this video to help argue some of their ranking orders:

[Malacrass]

It looks good, easy to navigate. But useless.

These sort of meta snapshots only cause problems because they don't take the different leagues into account. What effectively happens is that people look at the list, see who is placed on top and then try to secure those supposed "top tier" heroes without a second thought. Not thinking about composition, not even thinking about if they are even good with the hero.