Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Pann]

Whether that idea upsets you or not, it's THEIR money. If they want to use it to buy an Olympic swimming pool filled with red starburst and green skittles it's their right. How do you like it when someone tells you how to spend your money?

Why do you think it upsets me? First you claim that legacy servers would take away from retail, although there is no evidence to support this, and now you're claiming that it okay to spend money that has zero benefit to us because it is THEIR money. Bizarre.

[Deleted]

Because it's illegal.

That just means Blizzard can close them down, not that they have to close them down.

[Etselion]

do you even know how to count ? dont think so ...

2-3 weeks? Its been a while. At least for me

[Jewsco]

You guys can be against it as much as you want....They WILL happen. How they will do it I don't know. They hear us, and they are finally talking about it now that they see all the interest in it. Be ready...

Fine I haven't seen anybody hardly anybody against it. What the opponents are pointing out is the fact it isn't or won't be easy to do, will cost blizz money, no one knows how successful it will be long term,and what nost and other private servers were or are doing is illegal. Don't know what is so hard to grasp this is.

[Deleted]

Oh I see you are starting a fight. You did miss then that the arguements were debating wether what nost was doing was illegal. Not matter what blizz owns the IP to their art work, quests, raids etc... Did nost use anything different or exactly what was blizz's?

Things like models and artwork is in the client, not in the servers run by the Nost people.

No matter how they did it they were using what blizz made period.

That is not true. Copyright only protects the specific work created by Blizzard. If the Nost people did a clean room implementation of the databases etc. needed to run the server, then those were clearly not created by Blizzard and hence not copyrighted by Blizzard. Like I said before, the vast majority (or an some cases all) Blizzard created works are in the client. And Blizzard could go after the Nost players for breach of contract, but even Blizzard is not that stupid.

AFAIK the Nost guys did extract stuff directly from the client (things like maps for pathing information), so they were infringing on Blizzard's copyrights. And they certainly used Blizzard's trademarks on their website. There may be a fair use defense for that use though, but of course Nost doesn't have the resources or will to fight Blizzard in court (which Blizzard knows).

[Jewsco]

do you even know how to count ? dont think so ...

This is at least 3 weeks which is almost a month or did you miss almost?

[Gib Lover]

This is at least 3 weeks which is almost a month or did you miss almost?

It was shut down on the 10th and today is the 22nd??? Hello? 12 days =/= 3 weeks.

[Jewsco]

Why do you think it upsets me? First you claim that legacy servers would take away from retail, although there is no evidence to support this, and now you're claiming that it okay to spend money that has zero benefit to us because it is THEIR money. Bizarre.

Also no evidence that it won't effect retail either. Like how that works both ways? If I go by blizz's past history a fly buzzing around thier offices costs us a tier so I would say the chances are high this will effect retail.
Yes, it is thier money and they can do as they please with it. We can voice are displeasure by not giving them more.

- - - Updated - - -

It was shut down on the 10th and today is the 22nd??? Hello? 12 days =/= 3 weeks.

They got the cease and desist letter more than a week before that they just shut down in the 10th. So add a week in and yes 3 weeks or you being obtuse. Look when this thread started on the 6th of this month.

[lakylog]

I think even fewer people would be ok with "rolling resets". This is such a private server concept... It looks like an innocuous suggestion in this context, but how many retail players would be ok with this?

"We know you ran out of stuff to do on this legacy realm, so let's delete all your progress so you can start over". I'm sure it would be very popular

Legacy servers don't get additional content. It's a bad idea to open a realm, release content progressively, and then have it be at patch 1.12.1 content for the rest of its (in this case) inevitably short lifespan. It would reduce the lifespan of the servers. Legacy servers need resets to stay fresh, because once you do everything you can, the only reason to come back is if there has been a reset. Look at Diablo 2, it has resets, and people play it until they get bored and then come back the next reset. WoW works the same way, except there are no resets, but in their place, there are new content patches. Expansions are kind of like resets. All your previous end-game progression is obsolete with the release of a new expansion, in exchange we get something else to shift our objectives to.

You totally gloss over the amount of money to redo the code to even work again. Redo B.Net and all it's functions to work with the servers. It won't just magically work. It took Nost 5 years to get running. And many people don't want progressive servers. Would it be PvP or PvE? What region? You are just stating 3 realms that are progressive but not everyone wants that and you're still splitting the existing people from 1 server in the case of live to 4 servers or more. Or in the case of your X number of pro-vanilla people from 1 server to 3 or more.

Interesting and valid points. About Bnet integration, it really doesn't need any. I own Diablo 2, but it doesn't have Bnet integration apart from the online play being hosted on Bnet. I can't download the game on Bnet, and I can't chat with my friends via Bnet in the game. The client doesn't need Bnet integration, there only has to be a way to download it.

About the variables of the servers, again, I would like to point out that I was merely speculating, and even pointed out that my speculations were very flawed. If I could figure out a solution for this in a single post on MMO-Champion, I would probably spend my time becoming a very successful businessman instead. There are also very logical reasons why Nostalrius took so long to launch, and it's not because that's what it takes. I am not very educated in how private servers work, but if you google it, it will make more sense. Basically there are several "systems" (for a lack of understanding) that a lot of private servers use that are flawed, and Nostalrius wanted something very close to Blizzard's Vanilla without all the flaws of these pre-existing "systems", and the freedom to freely adjust the game to how they wanted it to progress, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they had to create their own "system" for this.

The Nostalrius team already managed to get their server up and running for a few hundred dollars a month, so Blizzard should not have to spend hundreds of millions to get theirs. They could use the same server, even. The hardware and software of the server doesn't matter as long as the product is the same, or at least very similar. It doesn't matter how "amateur" quality it is, all that matters right now is that there is a demand that's not being met because the license holder of the IP is not willing to meet the demand, and meeting the demand unlicensed as a third-party is illegal. The natural reaction here is to be upset.

What we have here is, in the very basics, a very similar situation to that of Konami cancelling Silent Hills, for anyone who knows anything about that. Hideo Kojima was, with his developer studio, under the license of Konami, developing a new Silent Hill game to cater to the demands of the fans of the franchise, when Konami suddenly decided to scrap the project. Now Kojima is in his own independent developer studio, and everyone wants Silent Hills, but Konami is sitting on an IP they do not want to do anything about, and still refuse to license to a third party. The fans are not happy. Compare the cancellation of Silent Hills to the shutdown of Nostalrius. Of course the development of Silent Hills was official, and Nostalrius was illegal, but aside from that lone factor, the basics of the situation is the same. People wanted product, people were getting product, big guys in charge didn't want product, people were denied product. People are now demanding product.

[Jewsco]

Things like models and artwork is in the client, not in the servers run by the Nost people.



That is not true. Copyright only protects the specific work created by Blizzard. If the Nost people did a clean room implementation of the databases etc. needed to run the server, then those were clearly not created by Blizzard and hence not copyrighted by Blizzard. Like I said before, the vast majority (or an some cases all) Blizzard created works are in the client. And Blizzard could go after the Nost players for breach of contract, but even Blizzard is not that stupid.

AFAIK the Nost guys did extract stuff directly from the client (things like maps for pathing information), so they were infringing on Blizzard's copyrights. And they certainly used Blizzard's trademarks on their website. There may be a fair use defense for that use though, but of course Nost doesn't have the resources or will to fight Blizzard in court (which Blizzard knows).

So blah, blah, blah they were using blizz's stuff right? Without permission right? So illegal.

[AeneasBK]

It was shut down on the 10th and today is the 22nd??? Hello? 12 days =/= 3 weeks.

Look, we established who could count and who couldn't about 800 pages ago, lets not rake up those coals again.

Inicdently the idea of Legacy seasons could work fine, you'd even have an element of seasonal PvE races, rather that "Once ever" world firsts. A lot of the people I've spoken with don't seem too distracted by the loss of multiple raid-geared lvl 60's from Nost, happy to start over and re-grind. There are, after all, a great deal of options available.

[Etselion]

One of the Suramar quest (latest alpha build) has the text: "Nostalgia is the enemy of progress."

By Nost pirates logic, it means that will never be Vanilla servers. Ever

[AeneasBK]

Interesting and valid points. About Bnet integration, it really doesn't need any. I own Diablo 2, but it doesn't have Bnet integration apart from the online play being hosted on Bnet. I can't download the game on Bnet, and I can't chat with my friends via Bnet in the game. The client doesn't need Bnet integration, there only has to be a way to download it.

I wish I'd known this about 900 pages ago. A lot of the counter arguments are based on the INSISTENCE that Blizzard would want to integrate it with Battlenet 2.0

[Kaeth]

Wow. I can't believe this thread is still going. If I felt inclined to jump back in now, are there even any horse remains left to bludgeon? I think they may have turned to dust and blown away a few hundred pages back.

[Gib Lover]

They got the cease and desist letter more than a week before that they just shut down in the 10th. So add a week in and yes 3 weeks or you being obtuse. Look when this thread started on the 6th of this month.

But the 6th to today is still not three weeks :/
A week is 7 days, my dude.

[Coconut]

Legacy servers don't get additional content. It's a bad idea to open a realm, release content progressively, and then have it be at patch 1.12.1 content for the rest of its (in this case) inevitably short lifespan. It would reduce the lifespan of the servers. Legacy servers need resets to stay fresh, because once you do everything you can, the only reason to come back is if there has been a reset. Look at Diablo 2, it has resets, and people play it until they get bored and then come back the next reset. WoW works the same way, except there are no resets, but in their place, there are new content patches. Expansions are kind of like resets. All your previous end-game progression is obsolete with the release of a new expansion, in exchange we get something else to shift our objectives to.

Or... let me suggest this radical solution... you can not open them at all?

Because that's not what WoW is about. WoW is about continued character progression. What's the point in doing it again, and why not just start an alt if that's what you're after. I get the appeal of a nostalgia trip in an old expansion, I get that. But progression resets for the sake of that? It's so out of touch with what the game really is it's crazy even mentioning it. Why not play Diablo instead?

[Deleted]

This is at least 3 weeks which is almost a month or did you miss almost?

the server was shut down on 10th ...

[JacobVR]

I quit retail WoW because it sucks now and every part of the game has been nerfed into the ground. I play vanilla private servers because they don't suck and it's actually challenging.

[Pann]

Also no evidence that it won't effect retail either. Like how that works both ways? If I go by blizz's past history a fly buzzing around thier offices costs us a tier so I would say the chances are high this will effect retail.
Yes, it is thier money and they can do as they please with it. We can voice are displeasure by not giving them more.

Did HS effect retail? Or HotS? What about D3? SC2? Overwatch? Their motorcycle reality TV show? Retail WoW suffered no visible side effects from any of these despite the fact that the development for games such as D3, SC2 and HotS having development costs reaching into the millions. I think it is safe to say that if Blizzard can afford, in terms of money and development time, to produce all these titles, as well as throwing away years of Titan development, without impacting on retail then the evidence points to legacy servers having very little impact on retail.

If Blizzard wants to release legacy servers they are perfectly capable of supporting them without needing take anything away from the current live version.

[lakylog]

Or... let me suggest this radical solution... you can not open them at all?

Because that's not what WoW is about. WoW is about continued character progression. What's the point in doing it again, and why not just start an alt if that's what you're after. I get the appeal of a nostalgia trip in an old expansion, I get that. But progression resets for the sake of that? It's so out of touch with what the game really is it's crazy even mentioning it. Why not play Diablo instead?

Diablo is about continued character progression. What's the point in doing it again, and why not just start an alt if that's what you're after. I get the appeal of a nostalgia trip in low level content, I get that. But progression resets for the sake of that? It's so out of touch with what the game really is it's crazy even mentioning it. Why not play World of Warcraft instead?

You see, your definition of fun in World of Warcraft is not objectively everyone elses definition of fun in World of Warcraft. If you like to PvP instead of PvE, it does not mean that people who PvE are crazy people who have no idea what they're talking about and only want PvE just to argue with you.