Poll: Regarding the topic.

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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Aakarshan View Post
    I agree, and this isn't even coming from someone who hates "social justice" entirely.

    It just has no place in an educational format and I've heard more than enough to believe that it is negatively impacting education. Leave this kind of stuff for personal opinions; it has no place in any educational system.
    The primary place for debating ideas IS the educational system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Look at all the scholarships for just African-Amercians.
    https://www.scholarships.com/financi...-scholarships/

    I'm sorry rare?
    Look at all these scholarships for polish people:
    http://www.pac1944.org/students/scholarships.htm

  2. #222
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    There really isn't this black line you are talking about in regards to classes. A class on southern history, for example, is going to touch on issues of black liberation. Do we need to ban teaching about the black panthers? You really didn't answer my question, and my question is perfectly fair, especially since so much of graduate education is self directed work on chosen topics: Under your regime, who decides what papers can be presented to classes?

    The kind of draconian, free speech stifling you are advocating is worse than anything you are arguing against.
    But there is in fact a distinction between the two, regardless of whether you want to see it.

    History classes about the South, and that touch on the Black Panthers, amongst many other topics, just isn't the same as a Intersectional Gender Studies class, that teaches there's a hierarchy of oppression within society, dictated simply by one's gender and skin color.

    There is literally no way anyone could compare the two as being similar.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    There really isn't this black line you are talking about in regards to classes. A class on southern history, for example, is going to touch on issues of black liberation. Do we need to ban teaching about the black panthers? You really didn't answer my question, and my question is perfectly fair, especially since so much of graduate education is self directed work on chosen topics: Under your regime, who decides what papers can be presented to classes?

    The kind of draconian, free speech stifling you are advocating is worse than anything you are arguing against.
    Teaching about what the black panthers are and why they formed isn't the same as teaching that white people keeping all minorities down. Do you see the difference? I sure hope so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    liberalism is a right wing idealogy.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    But there is in fact a distinction between the two, regardless of whether you want to see it.

    History classes about the South, and that touch on the Black Panthers, amongst many other topics, just isn't the same as a Intersectional Gender Studies class, that teaches there's a hierarchy of oppression within society, dictated simply by one's gender and skin color.

    There is literally no way anyone could compare the two as being similar.
    They are similar, and that is why the banning of speech is a bad idea. It has a chilling effect on the free exchange of ideas. If I know I'm banned from discussing social justice, what am I going to do when a student presents a paper rooted in social justice? Answer the damn question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    Teaching about what the black panthers are and why they formed isn't the same as teaching that white people keeping all minorities down. Do you see the difference? I sure hope so.
    No, I don't see how teaching the ideas of the black panthers are different than teaching any other set of ideas.

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    There seems to be this really, really bizarre belief, rooted in some kind of delusional paranoia, that there are just tens of thousands of professors out there who somehow force students to accept certain ideas or they fail. I'm not quite sure how this is enforced, so please enlighten me: Do they hand out a questionnaire that says "DO YOU BELIEVE IN PATRIARCHY?" and you fail if you say no?

  5. #225
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by AndaliteBandit View Post
    You would have a point if no one ever did anything illegal.

    Study Finds Disparities in Mortgages by Race
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/15/ny...?ex=1350187200
    That's not the same thing.
    You are presuming people are the same, when its quite likely to presume that black people are more likely to be poor, and thus have worse credit scores.
    also just because income levels are similar, does not mean objects purchased are similar - the resale value of a house (along with ability to sell) impacts lending options too.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    That's not the same thing.
    You are presuming people are the same, when its quite likely to presume that black people are more likely to be poor, and thus have worse credit scores.
    also just because income levels are similar, does not mean objects purchased are similar - the resale value of a house (along with ability to sell) impacts lending options too.
    Well, this is embarassing for you. Since you were so quick to disagree, instead of READ THE DAMN ARTICLE and possibly consider that you may be wrong, you ignored THE FIRST DAMN PARAGRAPH:

    "Home buyers in predominantly black and Hispanic neighborhoods in New York City were more likely to get their mortgages last year from a subprime lender than home buyers in white neighborhoods with similar income levels, according to a new analysis of home loan data by researchers at New York University."

    Key words:

    "with similar income levels"

  7. #227
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    They are similar, and that is why the banning of speech is a bad idea. It has a chilling effect on the free exchange of ideas. If I know I'm banned from discussing social justice, what am I going to do when a student presents a paper rooted in social justice? Answer the damn question.
    You grade it anyways.

    Did you not read the part where I said it wasn't banning the ideas, when pertaining to other subjects, since that's not what the main subject is about. Shit, I wrote a paper for a government class about PC culture, and it's effect on laws and culture at large, so I'm not the one advocating to ban all SJ from campus. Shit, if they want to start a college group that meets every other day or whatever, they can have fun. Just like if I wanted a homeopathy club on campus, I could! It just shouldn't be taught as the main subject of a class.

    In a history class where you learn about the Black Panthers, you learn about them and the environment around them and how they pertain to that part of history. You're not taking a Black Panther ideology class, where you're being taught that BP ideologies are the only correct ones.

    History classes are objective, where I'd be hard pressed to find an objective SJ class, since that's not what the ideology is about. Everything is observed through their ideological lens, it's in the damn course titles. Southern history class isn't "Southern history through the white supremacist lens" is it?

    Stop trying to make everything black and white, and see the shades of grey, just make sure there's either more or less than 50.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Yeah, freedom of speech, the land of the free..yadayada..go ahead..advocate banning shit (but please, not guns)

    /s
    Nice strawman here.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algy View Post
    My one question is: what are the "Social Justice Courses" that this petition wants to suspend?
    Easy, feminist studies, gender studies, or basically any program that indoctrinates people into thinking that pushing their ideology on others is acceptable without the recourse of debate and discussion.

  10. #230
    I don't think any topic should be off limits in higher education per say. But I voted ban it any way. Because internet.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    If the field of geology or planetary astrophysics had a substantial wing supported either theory, we should. However, they don't.
    You think they should teach people the earth is flat in a geology class? WTF! Guess you're cool with racists going in there teaching that whites need to be enslaved in sociology class, or maybe you're also cool with a history class that removes the holocaust from the books and teaches an alternate story?


    I think I'll put your absolute insanity on ignore now...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    liberalism is a right wing idealogy.

  12. #232
    Look at all the scholarships for just African-Amercians.
    https://www.scholarships.com/financi...-scholarships/

    I'm sorry rare?
    Caucasian students receive more than three-quarters (76%) of all institutional merit-based scholarship and grant funding, even though they represent less than two-thirds (62%) of the student population. Caucasian students are 40% more likely to win private scholarships than minority students.

    While there are very few private scholarships that are explicitly targeted at Caucasian students as a category, Caucasian students receive a disproportionately greater share of private scholarships and merit-based grants. Caucasian students receive more than three times as much in merit-based grant and private scholarship funding as minority students.

    http://www.finaid.org/scholarships/2...holarships.pdf
    Skoldier for life.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Freese View Post
    Caucasian students receive more than three-quarters (76%) of all institutional merit-based scholarship and grant funding, even though they represent less than two-thirds (62%) of the student population. Caucasian students are 40% more likely to win private scholarships than minority students.

    While there are very few private scholarships that are explicitly targeted at Caucasian students as a category, Caucasian students receive a disproportionately greater share of private scholarships and merit-based grants. Caucasian students receive more than three times as much in merit-based grant and private scholarship funding as minority students.

    http://www.finaid.org/scholarships/2...holarships.pdf
    I looked at a study on this once, turns out it's actually attributable to shared hobbies, and not much with race.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    You grade it anyways.

    Did you not read the part where I said it wasn't banning the ideas, when pertaining to other subjects, since that's not what the main subject is about. Shit, I wrote a paper for a government class about PC culture, and it's effect on laws and culture at large, so I'm not the one advocating to ban all SJ from campus. Shit, if they want to start a college group that meets every other day or whatever, they can have fun. Just like if I wanted a homeopathy club on campus, I could! It just shouldn't be taught as the main subject of a class.
    Can I allow the paper to be presented to the class? Can I be involved in a class discussion about the paper? I don't know, because whatever board you have put together to police my speech might come for me.

    In a history class where you learn about the Black Panthers, you learn about them and the environment around them and how they pertain to that part of history. You're not taking a Black Panther ideology class, where you're being taught that BP ideologies are the only correct ones.
    Prove that classes that force you to adhere to an ideology are an actual problem.

    History classes are objective, where I'd be hard pressed to find an objective SJ class, since that's not what the ideology is about. Everything is observed through their ideological lens, it's in the damn course titles. Southern history class isn't "Southern history through the white supremacist lens" is it?
    History is all about perspective and ideology. I write from a very particular perspective, and other historians write from their perspective. I clash with more social justice oriented historians all the time, and it makes me a better historian.

    Stop trying to make everything black and white, and see the shades of grey, just make sure there's either more or less than 50.
    I took a class once with a chief advisor to Dick Cheney. It was a fascinating class, an amazing insight into this man's mind. I disagreed with his entire worldview. I took that class BECAUSE of who he was, because I had something to gain by being deeply exposed to that perspective. I never would have had that if someone decided that his ideas were offensive and needed to be banned, and that is what you are ironically advocating for, while pretending you are opposed to that.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    I looked at a study on this once, turns out it's actually attributable to shared hobbies, and not much with race.
    How does that make it not related to race?

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    I looked at a study on this once, turns out it's actually attributable to shared hobbies, and not much with race.
    You looked at a study "like this" but not this actual study? Okay...?
    Skoldier for life.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    No, I don't see how teaching the ideas of the black panthers are different than teaching any other set of ideas.

    There seems to be this really, really bizarre belief, rooted in some kind of delusional paranoia, that there are just tens of thousands of professors out there who somehow force students to accept certain ideas or they fail. I'm not quite sure how this is enforced, so please enlighten me: Do they hand out a questionnaire that says "DO YOU BELIEVE IN PATRIARCHY?" and you fail if you say no?
    You know that's a strawman, right? I don't think tens of thousands of professors. Stop assuming shit, FFS.

    There's good ideas and there's bad ideas. Saying "whiteness is a problem" is a bad idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    liberalism is a right wing idealogy.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    You think they should teach people the earth is flat in a geology class? WTF! Guess you're cool with racists going in there teaching that whites need to be enslaved in sociology class, or maybe you're also cool with a history class that removes the holocaust from the books and teaches an alternate story?


    I think I'll put your absolute insanity on ignore now...
    Wow, you did a really amazing job of totally ignoring what I said. Congratulations.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    No, it are facts.
    But sometimes you'll hear opinions in those classes.
    It's the opposite of facts and it's being forced into the throat of everyone else.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Easy, feminist studies, gender studies, or basically any program that indoctrinates people into thinking that pushing their ideology on others is acceptable without the recourse of debate and discussion.
    Then why was there so much debate in those classes when I took them?

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