[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Madus]

This

plus this

and it is golden.


This would be just icing on the cake

[Deleted]

Stellar Flare applying stellar empowerment doesn't work for a couple of reasons. It would cause all our damage except the Moon spells and PoG to scale with mastery which isn't ever going to happen. It would also need Stellar Flare to cost a very high amount of AsP and do no damage, otherwise it would be way too strong.

[Madus]

It would cause all our damage except the Moon spells and PoG to scale with mastery which isn't ever going to happen.

Is not that already case ? all i have to do not to spec stfl/foe .

[huth]

It might work if it gives a weaker version of SE(limited duration, partial bonus, whatever). Though it would probably be easier to just have all damage in StFl itself and not deal with that headache.

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Is not that already case ? all i have to do not to spec stfl/foe .

No, SW and LS only gain benefit in single target, DoTs only gain in AoE. Having StFl give Stellar Empowerment would give all benefits in single target.

[Owlkin]

Lets face it. All spells that do not scale with the mastery at a certain level become useless.

For example if you can reach value there starfall make more then FoE you will not use it.

We lost our haste breakpoints for dots but we got alot new one.

[huth]

Lets face it. All spells that do not scale with the mastery at a certain level become useless.

For example if you can reach value there starfall make more then FoE you will not use it.

We lost our haste breakpoints for dots but we got alot new one.

Technically, yes, but for example MF and SF are so strong that no amount of mastery that can be realistically attained will make SW stronger, and you don't want to use SW in AoE anyway, so it becomes a non-issue there. Moon Moon does effectively scale with Mastery by way of generating AP as well.

The only skill that actually runs into that issue currently is FoE.

[Madus]

No, SW and LS only gain benefit in single target, DoTs only gain in AoE. Having StFl give Stellar Empowerment would give all benefits in single target.

Ye, but logically using of Stfl should reduce amount of solar/lunar empowerments so more of your sw/ls would be unempowered but all of your dots are empowered. Its matter of tuning asp cost (and maybe duration) of Stfl. It could be nice gameplay changer. You would just trade empowered nukes for empowered dots.

[Lucrece]

I don't get why we can't just remove Stellar Empowerment and boost the damage of Starfall and Stellar Flare accordingly. How obnoxious to add not only the ramp up of tab target multidotting before dropping a Starfall and dumping some more AsP on Stellar Flare before that.

[huth]

Probably because they want Balance to stay a multi-dot spec.

Ye, but logically using of Stfl should reduce amount of solar/lunar empowerments so more of your sw/ls would be unempowered but all of your dots are empowered. Its matter of tuning asp cost (and maybe duration) of Stfl. It could be nice gameplay changer. You would just trade empowered nukes for empowered dots.

I'd be more for StFl only giving a partial SE in that case. Like StFl also applies SE for 6 seconds or something like that.

[Lucrece]

It is a multidot spec already without tying our aoe even more to multi-dotting beforehand. No reason to tie Starfall's performance to dots. Allowing you to starfall and then dot would remove the ramp upo to AoE, since starfall already has the ramp up of resource generation.

[garonne]

Stellar Flare applying stellar empowerment doesn't work for a couple of reasons. It would cause all our damage except the Moon spells and PoG to scale with mastery which isn't ever going to happen. It would also need Stellar Flare to cost a very high amount of AsP and do no damage, otherwise it would be way too strong.

as it is, FOE is the only spell not benefiting from mastery and thats because its extremely strong, however more haste does itcreases its damage and its not up 100% of the time so we do dont waste mastery completely.

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It might work if it gives a weaker version of SE(limited duration, partial bonus, whatever). Though it would probably be easier to just have all damage in StFl itself and not deal with that headache.

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No, SW and LS only gain benefit in single target, DoTs only gain in AoE. Having StFl give Stellar Empowerment would give all benefits in single target.

you wouldnt be using starsurge with stellar flare so you'd only get the dot buffed or LS and SW buffed, not both. to use both should cause a lower dps

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Ye, but logically using of Stfl should reduce amount of solar/lunar empowerments so more of your sw/ls would be unempowered but all of your dots are empowered. Its matter of tuning asp cost (and maybe duration) of Stfl. It could be nice gameplay changer. You would just trade empowered nukes for empowered dots.

bascially this... while i came up with the idea, im curious how it'd work with the lvl 100 talents if at all and does Stellar flare even work with them now?
`

[huth]

as it is, FOE is the only spell not benefiting from mastery and thats because its extremely strong, however more haste does itcreases its damage and its not up 100% of the time so we do dont waste mastery completely.

It's not. Once you have all SS traits, using FoE single target is a DPS loss.

you wouldnt be using starsurge with stellar flare so you'd only get the dot buffed or LS and SW buffed, not both. to use both should cause a lower dps

Why wouldn't you be using SS? You have to do something with the excess AP.

[garonne]

I don't get why we can't just remove Stellar Empowerment and boost the damage of Starfall and Stellar Flare accordingly. How obnoxious to add not only the ramp up of tab target multidotting before dropping a Starfall and dumping some more AsP on Stellar Flare before that.

another option is also to remove the empowerments from stellar flare entirely but then it'd be a bit similar to FoE but its an option

[huth]

another option is also to remove the empowerments from stellar flare entirely but then it'd be a bit similar to FoE but its an option

There's still the fairly major difference of one being target based debuff while the other is location based AoE.

[garonne]

It is a multidot spec already without tying our aoe even more to multi-dotting beforehand. No reason to tie Starfall's performance to dots. Allowing you to starfall and then dot would remove the ramp upo to AoE, since starfall already has the ramp up of resource generation.

its just a gameplay dynamic. you should be dotting with starfall anyway but someone who doesn't know should be able to read the spells description and figure it out themselves.

you could also even say starsurge shouldnt be tied to LS and SW performance either. then its just a bit boring imo.

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It's not. Once you have all SS traits, using FoE single target is a DPS loss.

honestly this is trivial, tuning can fix that. if not then FoE will be a complete niche 2 stack target cleave damage.

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Why wouldn't you be using SS? You have to do something with the excess AP.

the idea would be to substitute Stellar flare for SS, whether they increase the cost of STF and/or tune damage, single target you wouldnt use Stellar flare, on 2 to 3( or 4 with howver they'd tune it) it finds its use and greater than that would be starfall.

on two targets it would replace a SS every 12 secs. if you can get a SS without having a stellar flare fall off then thats just bonus and i dont think thats such a bad thing. (i would only be an empowerment every 25+ secs?)

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There's still the fairly major difference of one being target based debuff while the other is location based AoE.

yup there's a difference but is it enough of a difference? also this method would completely diminish mastery if you had both FoE and StFl, dont know how much they want that, but as i said, its an option to test out.

[Owlkin]

Owlkin Frenzy never proc after patch...

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Sentinel Owl
Travel form glyph

[wing5wong]

yup, annoying, cos wanted to test moons interaction.
reported in feedback arleady.

Nice , was hoping that would be the model. looks good

[huth]

honestly this is trivial, tuning can fix that. if not then FoE will be a complete niche 2 stack target cleave damage.

Note that i was talking about 0 mastery rating. And no, tuning can't fix that on its own. They'd constantly have to retune FoE to keep up with gear.

The biggest issue with that, though, is that we have no actual alternatives on that tier, and literally no useful single target talents in it.

[Deleted]

The biggest issue with that, though, is that we have no actual alternatives on that tier, and literally no useful single target talents in it.

That is also a blessing in disguise, since it allows us to pick FoE without it substaintially hurting our single target dps. Obviously that doesn't excuse the other two talents being useless in pretty much every scenario, but being useless on single target is a good thing.

[huth]

That is also a blessing in disguise, since it allows us to pick FoE without it substaintially hurting our single target dps. Obviously that doesn't excuse the other two talents being useless in pretty much every scenario, but being useless on single target is a good thing.

Which means the talent tier utterly failed its purpose. It may be a blessing from a TC PoV, but from a gameplay design one, it's a cat ass trophy.