[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[Rothex]

Oh horray! They fixed Living Bomb and Pyretic Incantation. Plus making Phoenix Flames interact with Hot Streak is super cool too!

Plus, if the cleave damage also crits, you get Heating Up. So even if you use PF on a single target and both the main damage and cleave (which also hits the single target) crit, you get a Hotstreak. :O

Is the main target Phoenix and cleave Phoenix considered the same spell or are they separate? Like, if the main crits then the cleave also crits or do they both have separate chances to crit? Just curious to see if that means AoE situations will be full of juicy Phoenix Hot Streak spamming or not or if it means seeing poor old Heating Ups appear and vanish in a split second.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Is the main target Phoenix and cleave Phoenix considered the same spell or are they separate? Like, if the main crits then the cleave also crits or do they both have separate chances to crit? Just curious to see if that means AoE situations will be full of juicy Phoenix Hot Streak spamming or not or if it means seeing poor old Heating Ups appear and vanish in a split second.

All separate. I think it happens quick enough that you just don't see the HU unless it's something you can react to, though.

[Deleted]

Is the main target Phoenix and cleave Phoenix considered the same spell or are they separate? Like, if the main crits then the cleave also crits or do they both have separate chances to crit? Just curious to see if that means AoE situations will be full of juicy Phoenix Hot Streak spamming or not or if it means seeing poor old Heating Ups appear and vanish in a split second.

They both (and all single cleaves) have separate chances to crit. If you have only one critical hit, you still keep Heating Up. If you crit at least twice, you get Hotstreak!. So you'll mostly always get HS when AoEing.

EDIT:
But I already noticed that PF's travel time is still kinda large. If you have Combustion up and use PF on max target range, you can't use Pyro! instantly after PF's GCD because it's still "on the way".

[Rothex]

And if there's multiple adds that get cleaved does that mean each Phoenix that hits them are also considered separate too? Just curious if there's like 3+ adds and you have at least 2 that crit but at least 1 that doesn't, if that still procs Hot Streak or cancels it. Seems messy.

Edit: You clarified as I was typing. Thanks! So if at least 2 crit then we get a Hot Streak, sounds like AoE will be fun then

[Lady Velvet]

I'm curious about something, since Flame orbs replaces Pyroblast with Phoenix's Flame, doesn't that mean we won't benefit from Pyroblast's ignite since ignite is only applied when Fireball, Inferno Blast, Scorch, Pyroblast, and Flamestrike deal damage?

[Dizzeeyooo]

I'm curious about something, since Flame orbs replaces Pyroblast with Phoenix's Flame, doesn't that mean we won't benefit from Pyroblast's ignite since ignite is only applied when Fireball, Inferno Blast, Scorch, Pyroblast, and Flamestrike deal damage?

Flame Orbs are removed, Phoenix's Flame is a completely separate button/ability similar to Pyroblast but with cleave, both Pyroblast and Phoenix's Flame apply ignite

[Ham on Rye]

I've noticed my damage has gone up a bit, but that's probably because i'm sporting almost 60% crit on the character pane.

[Xorn]

So, I'm just speculating here, but I'm assuming we'd most likely want to make sure we have 3 charges of PF going into every Combust to alternate casts of PF and Pyro (go into Combust with HS, Combust, Pyro (grants HU), PF (grants HS), Pyro, etc). So given the 30 second recharge time on PF, that gives us like, 1 to spend outside of Combusts. Possibly less with Kindling.

They both (and all single cleaves) have separate chances to crit. If you have only one critical hit, you still keep Heating Up. If you crit at least twice, you get Hotstreak!. So you'll mostly always get HS when AoEing.

EDIT:
But I already noticed that PF's travel time is still kinda large. If you have Combustion up and use PF on max target range, you can't use Pyro! instantly after PF's GCD because it's still "on the way".

Well, I guess given that it might be beneficial to toss an IB along with PF then, just to be sure you get a HS again to keep alternating them

[pixelated senpai]

So i see everyone mention the changes from the recent build, my question is how is the gameplay now? does PF provide enough interaction with the spec and is leveling as fire going to be a pain?

[AngelovV]

So i see everyone mention the changes from the recent build, my question is how is the gameplay now? does PF provide enough interaction with the spec and is leveling as fire going to be a pain?

Considering that I started with 680 ilvl and got to 110 with around 3 deaths, no leveling is not a pain, it is very easy to get to the max level. I fully completed 3 zones to get to max level and you can chose out of five. Still frost is best for leveling as of now.

I went with CC talents - double Frost Nova, Blast Wave and Mirror Images for rares and high HP quest mobs.

[Deleted]

I'm not surprised if fire remains weaker in killing a single high HP mob. The spec will likely remain with the philosophy of being more potent on AOE. Though, after the extremities of 6.x and earlier in AOE, they seem to be toning it down so it will likely be a spec that looks good on 3 or 2 targets or more, and single isn't horrible (without clunky tricks like a trinket that can't stop proccing).

[AngelovV]

I'm not surprised if fire remains weaker in killing a single high HP mob. The spec will likely remain with the philosophy of being more potent on AOE. Though, after the extremities of 6.x and earlier in AOE, they seem to be toning it down so it will likely be a spec that looks good on 3 or 2 targets or more, and single isn't horrible (without clunky tricks like a trinket that can't stop proccing).

Where do you get those calculations from ... 2-3-5-30? Fire has cleave close to 0, Fire spells do AoE, so it should perform better the higher the number of targets. Forst has cleave, so Frost will perform better on 2 targets...
WarcraftMage, more like WarcraftBigMouthSmallBrain.

[Deleted]

Where do you get those calculations from

There are no calculations in what you quoted. I was talking about what is likely the Blizzard design in terms of the potency of AOE (lower but still best) and the single-target dmg (better now, not the best) by looking at the utility changes of fire. I did not run any simulation or do a formulation about it and it would not be prudent to do so since there is no tuning done yet.

[AngelovV]

There are no calculations in what you quoted. I was talking about what is likely the Blizzard design in terms of the potency of AOE (lower but still best) and the single-target dmg (better now, not the best) by looking at the utility changes of fire. I did not run any simulation or do a formulation about it and it would not be prudent to do so since there is no tuning done yet.

There is no need for tuning or siming to know such a thing. Each and every spell has a description - you read it and you know it (by "you" I mean most people). Fire's spells do AoE - Flamestrike, PhoenixFlame, Artifact traits, Talents, Ignite spread mechanic works both as cleave and aoe. Which leads to the conclusion that fire will perform good in AoE situations (no 2,3 here). And for example Frost has splitting ice for cleave... but ofcourse I have played around with both in the Alfa and you haven't, so how can I know.

[Deleted]

Can you be more clear on where you disagree? I said it's likely going to be the best in AOE but toned down compared to WoD. Do you disagree?

[AngelovV]

I'm not surprised if fire remains weaker in killing a single high HP mob. Though, after the extremities of 6.x and earlier in AOE, they seem to be toning it down so it will likely be a spec that looks good on 3 or 2 targets or more, and single isn't horrible (without clunky tricks like a trinket that can't stop proccing).

You are always speculating, wrongly on top of that. And at the same time you always want others to back themselves up with data.

[Ham on Rye]

So i see everyone mention the changes from the recent build, my question is how is the gameplay now? does PF provide enough interaction with the spec and is leveling as fire going to be a pain?

I leveled purely as fire and had no issues at all. Did 108-110 after the patch and it was a breeze. I can only assume it will be even easier when I stroll in at 730 iLevel with a 795 ring instead of 680.

[Deleted]

Btw, each Phoenix crit also decreases the CD of Combustion if you have Kindling. Dunno if intended (I don't think so), but kinda OP in AoE situations.

[Lady Velvet]

Plus, if the cleave damage also crits, you get Heating Up. So even if you use PF on a single target and both the main damage and cleave (which also hits the single target) crit, you get a Hotstreak. :O
Phoenix' Flames -> HS -> Flamestrike -> PF -> HS -> FS.... dat aoe damage!

Does this mean Blast Wave's crits will also trigger Heating Up?

[nickseng]

So, I'm just speculating here, but I'm assuming we'd most likely want to make sure we have 3 charges of PF going into every Combust to alternate casts of PF and Pyro (go into Combust with HS, Combust, Pyro (grants HU), PF (grants HS), Pyro, etc). So given the 30 second recharge time on PF, that gives us like, 1 to spend outside of Combusts. Possibly less with Kindling.

Would that kinda waste PF since it grants 2 crits?

Going by your rotation,
"go into Combust with HS, Combust, Pyro (grants HU), PF (grants HS)", the 2nd crit from PF will be wasted as you can't get heating up without first spending HS.