Mafia 68: The West Wing

[Reticence]

Ok, I couldn't get sleep without doing this first:
@Xanjori, @Reticence, @kurenai, @Robozerim, @Kryllian,

I've accused all 5 of you of potentially being scum. I've also suggested that there are two scum teams. And that the makeup of each team is:

Uggor's team:
Uggor, Kurenai, Reticence, Virothe

Largehorn's team:
Largehorn, Dupti, Robo, (Kryllian or Xanjori)

Am I wrong about this, about you, about one of my town reads? Who is scum? What is the scum setup for this game? (One scum team, or two? SK or no?)

I have already indicated that I still believe there is only one team, though I have not completely discounted the possibility that you are right. As such, this will surely skew my perception of the situation a bit when comparing notes. I've given multiple reasons for why I think this and defended them, and I believe the apparently TPR-heavy setup supports this as well. That said, I will go back through the earlier game and try to find more evidence to support it. If I'm right, then an SK of some sort seems natural.

On the topic of skewing perspectives, for example, if Uggor and Dupti were on the same team, then it is difficult to imagine that Kurenai is mafia, unless you want to suggest that he has been bussing teammates for the past two days. I actually have a theory on Kurenai, but I need to look back at previous days to confirm it. I'm sure this statement doesn't help your perception that we're on the same team, however.

That aside, you are very wrong about me, although I do not disagree with your suspicion of Robo and Kryllian. Xanjori I am unsure on, but I feel less suspicious of him than the other two.

@Graeham: I would like your character name, now, please.

[Xanjori]

What do you expect, you literally just asked people if they wanna come out and confirm the scum make-up this game? Ofc you're going to get a smart ass reply. I'm well aware of how close it is, which is why I'm paying close attention to the people I trust and why I want people to look at the ones I don't trust.

[Dendrek]

I want you to throw out your own theories. It is of absolute necessity that we have cogent theories about the scum make up of this game (even if we're not certain who the scum are) because that will play a huge role in determining who actually is scum. For example, if there are two scum teams, that says a lot about possible alliances. If there's one scum team, it says a lot about possible bussing. You don't need to agree or disagree with my theory directly. Provide something of your own.

By the way, I knew you were going to be a smartass well before you replied. You are hyper critical of my brand of logic. But the least you can do is try to be helpful.

[Reticence]

On the topic of skewing perspectives, for example, if Uggor and Dupti were on the same team, then it is difficult to imagine that Kurenai is mafia, unless you want to suggest that he has been bussing teammates for the past two days.

In my pre-coffee haze, I was referring to the two days prior to yesterday. It seems he did not throw a vote yesterday; now that I've noticed that, I find it... interesting, and may have to reexamine my read on him.

[Catta]

Catta, at some point today (probably later) I'd like for you to post your night actions and the results. It seems highly likely you have relevant information in there. As I said, probably later. It might bias what happens today if you post it now. But please do consider posting. If you feel you need to scrub certain details to avoid helping scum, that's on you to decide.

- - - Updated - - -

I really need to get some sleep. I'll be back later (perhaps much much later depending on when I wake up).

I don't really want to post my night actions considering that I can't visit the same person twice and its getting scarce. I was told that the flavor i get back is fluff and that it doesn't tell me anything about my target. However, I was told that i could speculate why some flavor was good or bad and why i got certain gifts from certain people.

Kurenaii and Dupti were horrible interviews. I thought it was just part of the fluff but with Dupti's death it seems likely it was more than that.

[Graeham]

@Graeham: I would like your character name, now, please.

My character's name is Jane Biden. Which I assume is a play on Joe Biden.

[Reticence]

By the way, I encourage everyone to be very careful with their votes today. Yesterday ended at six votes, and the majority was supposed to be seven. Mod errors are always possible, of course, but I doubt it.

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My character's name is Jane Biden. Which I assume is a play on Joe Biden.

Thank you.

So, Graeham. If another player with your role came to your attention, would you want to vote for them based on that alone?

[Deleted]

By the way, I encourage everyone to be very careful with their votes today. Yesterday ended at six votes, and the majority was supposed to be seven. Mod errors are always possible, of course, but I doubt it.

Minority lynch rules apply to this game so if no Majority is reached the person with the highest vote tally will be lynched.

[Dendrek]

Catta, it does not seem there is a scum bus driver or role blocker this game -- we'd see significantly different results from night protects if there were -- so realistically, there's very little harm that could come from revealing who you've seen. What are scum going to do? Killing you is literally the only thing they can do. (I think :P)

[Reticence]

Minority lynch rules apply to this game so if no Majority is reached the person with the highest vote tally will be lynched.

Oh, time ran out yesterday?

... that does make sense. I woke up right when the day ended. My bad.

[Xanjori]

I'm still not fully convinced there are two teams. If there are two teams, based on the fact we saw two mafia with similar role cards, then I have to point out that in fact Dupti was a doctor. So for Dendrek to be claiming to be a doctor too, well you can see how I am thinking here.

I'm not willing to put that to the test right now though, because I do think there are safer targets available. Kurenai and Reticence are easily the top two choices for today imo. Behind that are Kryllian and Celtic.

[Dendrek]

Xanjori, I'm terrified you're going to end up losing us this game if you're town.

[Reticence]

@Xanjori: Where does Robo fit in your worldview?

[Graeham]

Thank you.
So, Graeham. If another player with your role came to your attention, would you want to vote for them based on that alone?

In regards to being able to launch an appeal, I assume? I wouldn't want to vote on them purely for that, no. It'd have to be because I ultimately found their overall play throughout the game to be suspicious. It stands to reason there's someone out there playing 'President Bartlett' who has the final say over whether or not an appeal goes through.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is another player alive with my ability though. Cruelle's games typically have some sort of secondary feature baked into them such as the 'wish' system back in the Buffy game. Do you think the appeal system is in line with that?

[Xanjori]

Well I'm using the same logic applied to why there must be two scum teams. Either you admit that you're wrong with that logic or you accept that mine is correct. Now the way it would work in your favour is that with one team it would make sense for scum to have one doctor and town to have one doctor. The same way that Crackles role is mirrored in Catta, but Catta is in fact town/3rd party aligned whereas Crackle was Mafia/3rd party aligned.

On top of that Catta was correct, the role cards that showed up the same, one was *modified, leading me to believe that in fact he inherited the role, rather than it is the mirror to another teams member.

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@Xanjori: Where does Robo fit in your worldview?

I keep forgetting he exists. Which probably is a sign he is up to something dodgy. Plus he is Canadian, so surely he faces a lynch on those grounds alone?

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Actually screw that, there are two teams. I forgot what happened with Uggor yesterday.

[Reticence]

In regards to being able to launch an appeal, I assume? I wouldn't want to vote on them purely for that, no. It'd have to be because I ultimately found their overall play throughout the game to be suspicious. It stands to reason there's someone out there playing 'President Bartlett' who has the final say over whether or not an appeal goes through.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is another player alive with my ability though. Cruelle's games typically have some sort of secondary feature baked into them such as the 'wish' system back in the Buffy game. Do you think the appeal system is in line with that?

To a point. The wish system involved everyone in the game to a degree, of course, so not quite the same. I do agree with the notion that there is another person with the appeal power, though. I can't imagine that there is only one appeal out there when evidence suggests that multiple parties can have influence over whether or not it does anything.

And it's fair that you'd factor in the entire situation. Of course I didn't mean you'd ignore their play. I guess what I'm asking you is this: if, hypothetically, there are two, and you claim that you are town, what do you think is the likelihood that the other one is town, too?

[Dendrek]

Actually screw that, there are two teams. I forgot what happened with Uggor yesterday.

This is why I'm afraid you might end up losing us this game. You're ignoring obvious context.

[Kryllian]

Well Dendrek since you basically accused everyone who hasn't claimed a TPR as being scum I'm not sure how else to respond to that. Do I think that there's a scum or two hidden in those who've claimed...yes...Do I have a firm feeling on who it is...no.

As far as game makeup I think we have two scum teams with similar if not identical makeups. I also think they're pretty powerful at this point. Lets look at something as simple as the visitor/thief they both had. Since they each had an investigation for their own team something as simple as "you found a ring with the name Wilma Jefferson" or "you found a watch with the name Kate Harper" could give a lot of information. If they found a ring like in my example it might not tell them much at this point but if they found a watch with that character name it may.

After crackle flipping D1 with a spoofed name and it being a scum/third party role finding an item with a specific west wing character name on it would tell them they likely found a major player. Since both invetigators had non-west wing charcter names i don't think that would be a hard conclusion for them to make. There were questions raised as to why Lelly was targeted for a kill on N2. I'm wondering if they didn't investigate her and make that connection early and take her out while they could.

So far with the scum flips we've seen the investigators, an investigation immune, and a scum doc. That's pretty powerful makeup if they're identical teams. So having so many TPR would be necessary to balance it out.

As far as "defending myself" I will simply point out that I haven't been shy about putting my opinions out there this whole game. I've tried to put my logic and reasoning behind my votes every time and have been offering up theories along the way. I even voted on Uggor a couple days before he made his slip up that got him lynched. So my gut feelings have been right some of the time. On the flip side I was waffling on large and held out as late as I could because we had already lynched two town who didn't defend themselves and I thought it was going to happen a third time.

As far as who is on my radar right now? I think Kurenai is skating by if anyone is. Between the low post count and not much in his posts when they are made he's been on my radar for a few days now. Ret is the other one that I can't put my finger on at this point. It almost feels like he's playing the aggressive scum game of post a lot and stay off the radar (ala Crackleslap).

I'm not normally up this early on a weekend but for whatever reason my body got me up. The coffee isn't kicking in so I'm going to lay down and nap again. I'll check back in a few hours and see what else people are putting out there.

[Xanjori]

This is why I'm afraid you might end up losing us this game. You're ignoring obvious context.

And I was smart enough to look back and read what's happening.

Look I don't sit here and go "Dendrek is solo losing the game because so far he has called 5 townies "100% scum." Seriously, shape the fuck up and actually focus on the game and playing it.

[Catta]

Im still not convinced Uggor and dupti were on opposite teams. They'd be bound to have known that the real doctor would counter claim dupti sooner or later and tried to have Uggor survive instead of dupti while possible have the real doctor claim while doing so.