Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Pann]

For the same reason you dont ask someone from the cleaning crew that works there TODAY to deliver it....

Why? Is there something about delivering things that is overly complicated to the point that a cleaner would be incapable of doing it?

[Deleted]

Am I the only one that doesn't give a *** about vanilla "legacy" servers? Let them make Legion awesome instead.

That's the biggest issue with legacy. Focusing on the past instead of creating good expansions.

[Darkeon]

Am I the only one that doesn't give a *** about vanilla "legacy" servers? Let them make Legion awesome instead.

I don't see how one affects the other, to the extend of making it awesome or not awesome.

[Sazabius]

Only person I see making this impossible of engaging in a civilized discussion is you. Maybe step back from the PC and punch a wall or something? You got some issues that people here are unable to resolve..

I fail to see a point being made. I'm not outside your house dressed in a white cowl throwing rocks at your window.

[Deleted]

I don't see how one affects the other, to the extend of making it awesome or not awesome.

Splitting the team doesn't affect both? Hiring a new team doesn't affect both?

[Darkeon]

I fail to see a point being made. I'm not outside your house dressed in a white cowl throwing rocks at your window.

Starting a conversation with people and calling them "vanillafgts" does not a civilized conversation makes. So.. Bai!

Splitting the team doesn't affect both? Hiring a new team doesn't affect both?

Are you also against other Blizzard game's teams? I mean.. they had to split\move people around and even maybe hire new people, thus reducing the total available budget.
And these even involve creating new content, regularly. Unlike Legacy Servers where the biggest point would be maintenance and CS.

[Deleted]

Most watched WoW channel on Twitch is about how good legacy servers will be for wow.

[Deleted]

Are you also against other Blizzard game's teams? I mean.. they had to split\move people around and even maybe hire new people, thus reducing the total available budget.
And these even involve creating new content, regularly. Unlike Legacy Servers where the biggest point would be maintenance and CS.

Exactly. That's for creating new content. So I am not against it. I am against creating 10 year old content instead of new expansions.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one that doesn't give a *** about vanilla "legacy" servers? Let them make Legion awesome instead.

https://twitter.com/Quickbowjob/stat...40307875356673

[MoanaLisa]

Source on that please?

This is a good series on it in addition to the link I posted earlier.

http://www.gamefront.com/no-win-situ...tudios-part-1/
http://www.gamefront.com/no-win-situ...refall-part-2/
http://www.gamefront.com/no-win-situ...refall-part-3/

https://www.techinasia.com/firefall-...ked-the9-story

There is a lot of interesting reading there whether or not you agree. As I've said before, people that think that Mark Kern is some bright star to follow because of where he was 10 years ago are likely to be very disappointed.

Except for Firefall--which was a personal catastrophe and an embarrassment--he hasn't done anything in over ten years.

And the reddit post referred to wasn't a Blizzard employee. He was a Red5 employee.

[Sazabius]

Starting a conversation with people and calling them "vanillafgts" does not a civilized conversation makes. So.. Bai!

Have to call them something... Vanillaicecreamsucksluts then. Better? The only thing I see the notion of Legacy servers doing for the community is splitting it further.

It had already devolved into mud slinging long before I joined in... the Pro-VanillaICEs pretend to act like Blizzard suddenly segregated all the bathrooms in WoW. Don't like the game don't play it... the only thing getting a 200k petition signed to the contrary seems to have accomplished is to piss off the group of people that were on the fence before.

[Pann]

Exactly. That's for creating new content. So I am not against it. I am against creating 10 year old content instead of new expansions.

Not sure how they will be creating 10 year old content, surely the point of ten year old content is that is was created, well, ten years ago? But on a serious note why would one need to be at the expense of the other?

- - - Updated - - -

As I've said before, people that think that Mark Kern is some bright star to follow because of where he was 10 years ago are likely to be very disappointed.

Why? Do you think he'll get lost on the way to deliver the petition or something? Surely his bus has sat nav.

[Darkeon]

Exactly. That's for creating new content. So I am not against it. I am against creating 10 year old content instead of new expansions.

So you are okay with team-splits, as long as the teams that split\are hired are content-creators, thus resulting in a possible lower productivity or overall budget reduction; But not okay with splitting\hiring the Maintenance and CS teams due to it lowering the amount of content you'd get?

Wat?

[Varaben]

That's the biggest issue with legacy. Focusing on the past instead of creating good expansions.

And yet we've gotten worse and worse expansions with longer content droughts. Doesn't seem like they are focusing one way or the other. Legacy realms have nothing to do with it. You're implying for some reason they can't do both. Blizz can make different games you know.

[Jokerfiend]

This is a good series on it in addition to the link I posted earlier.

http://www.gamefront.com/no-win-situ...tudios-part-1/
http://www.gamefront.com/no-win-situ...refall-part-2/
http://www.gamefront.com/no-win-situ...refall-part-3/

https://www.techinasia.com/firefall-...ked-the9-story

There is a lot of interesting reading there whether or not you agree. As I've said before, people that think that Mark Kern is some bright star to follow because of where he was 10 years ago are likely to be very disappointed.

Except for Firefall--which was a personal catastrophe and an embarrassment--he hasn't done anything in over ten years.

I agree, with most of it Moana. But he apparently did good work at Blizzard, which gives him the leading authority on it. Regardless of his past behaviors, doesn't negate what he is saying. It's the genetic logical fallacy.

Ghostcrawler is basically saying the same things as Kern though. Are we going to discredit him? I will try and find it. Here.

https://ask.fm/RiotGhostcrawler/answers/137935832459

Ghostcrawler has everything to benefit from slamming Nost. But he doesn't. Sometimes it's what you don't say that speaks the loudest. Is there denial to this?

[Deleted]

That post pretty much hits the nail square on the head. Once upon a time, I too, would've been completely neutral about legacy servers, not for me but to each his own. But seeing the 10000000000x post on the subject has basically enraged me (you know when the boss turns big and red and one shots your tank). I've now swung completely on the side of wanting Blizzard to waste exactly ZERO time with legacy servers and let everyone that wants them rot in hell along with the legacy code.

Sorry but that post was garbage. Many of his "points" were absolutely baseless and actually wrong by a mile. Regarding the "toxicity" pro-Nost people have brought you is just a small drop in the ocean in regards to WoW fanboys that cannot objectively discuss the issue at hand. The pro-legacy server folks are in a minority and they are being ignored and belittled by the company that they once worshipped. How would that make you feel? Your love for WoW is mutual, but your opinions differ. And Blizzard has the option, to make both of you happy. Which in the end will help the game live on for even longer.

How is that so bad? Why are you against options? Why are you against Blizzard (the WoW-team) being, like it once was, community-driven.

[Eliseus]

Although I wish people would present themselves in a manner worth upholding all around in all ways of life, I do find it hypocritical to think that the behavior of SOME people pro-legacy is one way. Since WoWs conception players have been acting like this. It not only deters from the arguments at hand because it doesn't argue any points relevant, but it leads to personal attacks all around which again, results in nothing. If some of you for example think I am a terrible person for arguing valid points, I apologize. But considering most people now and days thinks anyone who disagrees with them is evil, there isn't much I can do about that. I guarantee I could find posts from people just as upset at Blizzard for other things for every person you guys will claim is terrible that is pro-legacy. It's irrelevant though. The name of the game is to make money, and if that exists, the rest doesn't matter.

[MoanaLisa]

I agree, with most of it Moana. But he apparently did good work at Blizzard, which gives him the leading authority on it. Regardless of his past behaviors, doesn't negate what he is saying. It's the genetic logical fallacy.

Ghostcrawler is basically saying the same things as Kern though. Are we going to discredit him? I will try and find it. Here.

https://ask.fm/RiotGhostcrawler/answers/137935832459

Ghostcrawler has everything to benefit from slamming Nost. But he doesn't. Sometimes it's what you don't say that speaks the loudest. Is there denial to this?

Why do you feel the need to misrepresent everything Greg Street said. He's not saying the same thing as Kern in any way at all. Let's compare.

In terms of my thoughts on the topic, a lot of players keep asking, so I'll just quote myself on Twitter here:
-- I've been asked this a lot. I'm not going to pick a side about who is right or wrong because it's probably not that simple
-- I definitely feel for the players who lost something.
-- But I'm sure Blizzard had good reasons. Maybe they had to protect their IP, because you can lose it if you do not. IDK.
-- I think most of you know that one thing Blizzard and I do disagree on is how much you should communicate with players.
-- I try to be as transparent with players as I possibly can be.
-- Blizzard had a different philosophy, which is fine. I don't begrudge them that.

versus Mark Kern openly advocating to have this done, leading the charge to get a petition to Blizzard which is highly suspect in the first place since there are no checks on it to keep people from voting multiple times; and generally acting as if he's the generalissimo of a movement. GC just wants to mostly stay out of it.

The two are nothing alike. I'm sorry, but they aren't.

[d-fens]

All of the sudden Nost is the best thing ever but before shutdown a lot of people playing there were complaining about the lag, large amount of Chinese players who couldn't communicate in English and various bots, battleground AFK-ers and node campers. (Granted, some of that stuff still happens in current WoW)

I wonder how big the Chinese community was actually, I'm fairly sure those numbers of active accounts would deflate immensely with them out of the picture. And if we assume Blizzard would eventually release separate US and EU legacy servers that number would be even smaller. Sure, I bet people playing legacy vanilla realms would enjoy it but I don't think it's profitable enough for Blizzard to even think about it at this point in time.

[Sazabius]

Sorry but that post was garbage. Many of his "points" were absolutely baseless and actually wrong by a mile. Regarding the "toxicity" pro-Nost people have brought you is just a small drop in the ocean in regards to WoW fanboys that cannot objectively discuss the issue at hand. The pro-legacy server folks are in a minority and they are being ignored and belittled by the company that they once worshipped. How would that make you feel? Your love for WoW is mutual, but your opinions differ. And Blizzard has the option, to make both of you happy. Which in the end will help the game live on for even longer.

How is that so bad? Why are you against options? Why are you against Blizzard (the WoW-team) being, like it once was, community-driven.

I just fail to see what there is to discuss at this point. Before you had the majority of players OK with the idea of, or at least humoring, the chance of legacy servers. Now the pot has boiled over and there is either FOR or AGAINST, you can no longer just be neutral and not care; this is serious North Vs. South shit. The middle grounders have picked their side.

On the pro-legacy side you want Blizzard to invest a HUGE amount of time and resources to bring back old legacy code and cater to a minority of players by giving them specialized servers. And the other camp would rather not see them waste time and resources doing and instead spend it improving the current game.

I agree the original post in question was garbage but the idea he brings up, that many of the previously 'neutrals' have now swung one way or the other, is very valid. I actually played vanilla from beginning to end; warts and all. The community that existed then will never exist again. Most of the people I played with have moved on, some have actually died. Most of the concepts that fostered that community have been killed off slowly by things beyond the scope of a simple change of paint as some would like to believe. To me that branch of the game is also dead, it's like trying to bring back a dead grandparent and parading them around like some kind of marionette.